Canberra PR7

[rickshaw]

4 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Oh yes, forgot that one. A short run kit but a modern enough one.

Speaking of which, the B.8 was also offered in short run form by High Planes in their wide range of Canberra variants

 

 

They're often ignored because they were never easy to get. Add to this that the little more work they require is not little at all and many modellers would be put off by the look of the parts on these kits. I consider myself a decently experienced modeller but while I have several HP kits in my stash (including a B.2) I'yet to find the willingness to start one...

 

It is very much horses for courses.  Downunder, High Planes were once locally manufactured and then they moved to Singapore.  They are still available easily through this magic thing called the Internet.   I am constantly surprised how resistant British modellers are to using it to order models.  Yes, as I mentioned, they need some extra work compared to most modern kits.  However, that shouldn't deter most modellers.  We have come a long way since the days of sanding balsa blocks.   All that is needed is a bit of effort and some filler.  Give it a go.  You might be surprised that with a little effort you can get quite a good result.

[BillF67]

I like ordering off the webnet thingy. Especially from Japan. I’m collecting little origami figures😀. Besides, I don’t have a local shop anyway. Not one that sells Canberra PR7 kits.

[canberra kid]

10 hours ago, rickshaw said:

I wonder why everybody ignores the High Planes range of Canberras?  They are IMO the best shape and best detailed models out there.  Yes, they require a little more work but apart from that they are quite rewarding in their outcome if care is taken.  I have built the B.2, B.6, B-57B/D and various versions of them.  They are IMO the bees knees.   I found the Matchbox PR.9 undernourished, the Airfix B.2/B.20 overfed and Frog ones were OK. Mach 2 isn't worth mentioning.

I didn't ignore the HP Canberra, I mentioned them along with the FROG B(I)8 as being the the most accurate 1/72 Canberra's around. Apart from the RB.57A and RB.57D they have not produced a PR Canberra, which is a shame. So I still think we need an up to date 1/72 Canberra, hell I'd even by happy if they started with an RB/EB.57A and did it in such a way that it could be back engineered to EE Canberra standard. There is also a gap for and accurate B.57B while we're at it, to consignee the Italeri kit to the bin where it belongs. 

John       

[rickshaw]

8 hours ago, canberra kid said:

I didn't ignore the HP Canberra, I mentioned them along with the FROG B(I)8 as being the the most accurate 1/72 Canberra's around. Apart from the RB.57A and RB.57D they have not produced a PR Canberra, which is a shame. So I still think we need an up to date 1/72 Canberra, hell I'd even by happy if they started with an RB/EB.57A and did it in such a way that it could be back engineered to EE Canberra standard. There is also a gap for and accurate B.57B while we're at it, to consignee the Italeri kit to the bin where it belongs. 

John       

I am constantly surprised that manufacturers don't put a little bit of thought into their moulds.  With the Canberra you'd start with a B.2 and then move onto a PR.3 and then to a B.6 and then a B(I)8 and then to a PR.9.  You could then branch off to the B-57 series.  All you need is an interchangeable nose and wings.  High Planes do a B-57 BTW.

Edited July 23, 2021 by rickshaw
poor grammar

[Nigel Bunker]

3 hours ago, rickshaw said:

I am constantly surprised that manufacturers don't put a little bit of thought into their moulds. 

This has been a moan of mine for ages. Take for example the new Airfix A-4 Skyhawk. If the fuselage sides and intakes were on one runner, a new runner could have given them an A-4C and another could have given them an A-4E/F/G/H/K kit. Two extra kits for very little extra effort. And regrettably Airfix are not the only manufacturer who could do with a little more thought.

[Giorgio N]

19 hours ago, rickshaw said:

 

It is very much horses for courses.  Downunder, High Planes were once locally manufactured and then they moved to Singapore.  They are still available easily through this magic thing called the Internet.   I am constantly surprised how resistant British modellers are to using it to order models.  Yes, as I mentioned, they need some extra work compared to most modern kits.  However, that shouldn't deter most modellers.  We have come a long way since the days of sanding balsa blocks.   All that is needed is a bit of effort and some filler.  Give it a go.  You might be surprised that with a little effort you can get quite a good result.

 

It's not that British modellers don't buy on the web, most of them do. These kits however appeared at a time when this kind of commerce was just starting for many and later the availability of these kits always seemed to be spotty. The fact that postage from Australia to Europe was often expensive didn't help. A number of large European shops had them or at least could get them, often not all variants though

I lived for a good part of 2009 in NSW and have visited Australia for one or two month every couple years since, so whenever I was in the Country I used to order goods from the various local manufacturers to take advantage of the way cheaper domestic postage rates (and then HPM moved to Singapore... but postage to Oz was still better than to Europe). By then however I noticed how each time I wanted to order something there were only a few Canberra variants available each time. Nothing strange considering that these are afterall short run kits, made in smaller numbers compared to mainstream products. I should add that I always had great service from HPM, regardless of the Canberra availability situation, so it was one of the shops I was happy to buy from.

I will sure build my B.2 and the other HPm kits at some point (well, maybe not the Havoc...), I built Ventura kits so I should have enough skills... still, I don't know if I'd have the nerves to build a whole collection of them... I do envy the patience of those modellers who build these kits without worries. I should add that there are several very nice builds on this same forum, of both Canberras and other types

[Giorgio N]

1 hour ago, Nigel Bunker said:

This has been a moan of mine for ages. Take for example the new Airfix A-4 Skyhawk. If the fuselage sides and intakes were on one runner, a new runner could have given them an A-4C and another could have given them an A-4E/F/G/H/K kit. Two extra kits for very little extra effort. And regrettably Airfix are not the only manufacturer who could do with a little more thought.

 

Designing a mould to allow different variants has pros and cons, for both the manufacturer and the modeller

A "modular" mould is more expensive. Yes, the manufacturer could make more money by offering more variants, but does increasing the number of variants by X result in increasing sales by the same number ? Generally no because there are many modellers who would just be happy with a model of a certain type, regardless of variant.

There's also the matter than making a mould for extra parts to change to a new variant may not necessarily be cheaper than making say a totally new fuselage., so much that some manufacturers have in the past preferred to follow this path.

For the modeller modular moulds often lead to troublesome fit, see for example the Fujimi Spitfire XIV/XIX with their choice of high and low back. Such kits also often suffer from compromises, for example the need to fill panel lines in the same Fujimi kits.

So we have companies that prefer to design modular moulds with extra parts for the different variants (Hasegawa and their 1/72 Phantoms for example). Others that prefer to make brand new parts for all main components (Eduard with their Spitfires, where each variant has different fuselage and/or wings). And those that don't bother with different variants at all

[tempestfan]

3 hours ago, Nigel Bunker said:

This has been a moan of mine for ages. Take for example the new Airfix A-4 Skyhawk. If the fuselage sides and intakes were on one runner, a new runner could have given them an A-4C and another could have given them an A-4E/F/G/H/K kit. Two extra kits for very little extra effort. And regrettably Airfix are not the only manufacturer who could do with a little more thought.

Not wanting to take this thread off too far, but at least they should have considered an alternative smooth rudder to give us an A - no one else apart from Airfix themselves has ever done an A (Lindberg XA4-D-1 aside), and arguably there are a host of very taste- and colourful markings schemes only applicable to -1s. Regarding the Airfix Canberras, it would probably be fairly easy to apply the same path to 1/72 which they did for 1/48. But there must be a reason they haven't done so far - and I think the B (I) 8 only had its initial run too, which shows with the mind-boggling price tags on the net. Maybe they are aware that there are some shortcomings.

[BillF67]

Totally back on track - I’ve impulsively bought an Aeroclub injection moulding conversion which says it will build a PR3/PR on the assumption that it’s telling the truth. Is anyone familiar with this conversion? If so, what model do I need as a base. It seems to be a B2 or T4.

[rickshaw]

3 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

It's not that British modellers don't buy on the web, most of them do. These kits however appeared at a time when this kind of commerce was just starting for many and later the availability of these kits always seemed to be spotty. The fact that postage from Australia to Europe was often expensive didn't help. A number of large European shops had them or at least could get them, often not all variants though

I lived for a good part of 2009 in NSW and have visited Australia for one or two month every couple years since, so whenever I was in the Country I used to order goods from the various local manufacturers to take advantage of the way cheaper domestic postage rates (and then HPM moved to Singapore... but postage to Oz was still better than to Europe). By then however I noticed how each time I wanted to order something there were only a few Canberra variants available each time. Nothing strange considering that these are afterall short run kits, made in smaller numbers compared to mainstream products. I should add that I always had great service from HPM, regardless of the Canberra availability situation, so it was one of the shops I was happy to buy from.

I will sure build my B.2 and the other HPm kits at some point (well, maybe not the Havoc...), I built Ventura kits so I should have enough skills... still, I don't know if I'd have the nerves to build a whole collection of them... I do envy the patience of those modellers who build these kits without worries. I should add that there are several very nice builds on this same forum, of both Canberras and other types

It seems then, that most of your moans are just that, moans.  You can never please everybody 100% of the time.  For me, the High Planes kits are a little more expensive than an Airfix run-of-the-mill kit.  I enjoy them.  They are challenging but not excessively so.

4 minutes ago, BillF67 said:

Totally back on track - I’ve impulsively bought an Aeroclub injection moulding conversion which says it will build a PR3/PR on the assumption that it’s telling the truth. Is anyone familiar with this conversion? If so, what model do I need as a base. It seems to be a B2 or T4.

A B.2 or a T.4 would be adequate. 

[tempestfan]

3 hours ago, BillF67 said:

Totally back on track - I’ve impulsively bought an Aeroclub injection moulding conversion which says it will build a PR3/PR on the assumption that it’s telling the truth. Is anyone familiar with this conversion? If so, what model do I need as a base. It seems to be a B2 or T4.

I think there is no (long run) kit of a B.2, closest would be the 1973 Airfix B.6/20.

[BillF67]

My good day is taking a sharp downward trajectory!

[BillF67]

My good day is taking a sharp downward trajectory!

 

Update - looks like I can get a High Planes 1/72 B2 or T4. Anyone have any thoughts on the compatibility of the conversion kit please?

[canberra kid]

15 hours ago, rickshaw said:

I am constantly surprised that manufacturers don't put a little bit of thought into their moulds.  With the Canberra you'd start with a B.2 and then move onto a PR.3 and then to a B.6 and then a B(I)8 and then to a PR.9.  You could then branch off to the B-57 series.  All you need is an interchangeable nose and wings.  High Planes do a B-57 BTW.

When you say that HP do a B.57 what model? I know they do an RB/EB.57A and RB/EB.57D do they have a B or E in the range?

John

[canberra kid]

7 hours ago, BillF67 said:

Totally back on track - I’ve impulsively bought an Aeroclub injection moulding conversion which says it will build a PR3/PR on the assumption that it’s telling the truth. Is anyone familiar with this conversion? If so, what model do I need as a base. It seems to be a B2 or T4.

Is the Aeroclub conversion a transparent nose section? You should be good to go with the HP kit, if you are after building a PR.7 you may be better starting with a later Mk.20 or a B.6 as they will have the correct size triple starter fairings for the Avon 109's. I assume you are aware of all the other mods to make a PR Canberra?

John  

[BillF67]

John, Screenshot of the conversion set. I’ve never done a conversion of anything😱. Only on about my sixth model of any kind! 

 

 

 

[Paul Thompson]

19 minutes ago, BillF67 said:

John, Screenshot of the conversion set. I’ve never done a conversion of anything😱. Only on about my sixth model of any kind! 

 

 

 

 

That looks like the set to correct the early Airfix  Canberra or make one from the Italeri  kit. AFAIK the Aeroclub PR 3 or 7 conversion set is 2 vacform fuselage halves to which you bodge the wings of your choice (there were 2 optional gussets to account for Airfix or Italeri wings).

 

Paul.

[canberra kid]

25 minutes ago, BillF67 said:

John, Screenshot of the conversion set. I’ve never done a conversion of anything😱. Only on about my sixth model of any kind! 

 

 

 

Thanks Bill  it's the older one not the clear one. Still all is not lost it's a good set. Unfortunately this won't give you the extra fuselage length needed for a PR. Canberra. Rather than the HP Canberra you may be better looking for an old 1/72 Airfix B.57B/RB.57E and a cheap FROG/ Novo/ Revel B.(I)8. The Airfix B.57 for some odd reason is the correct length for a PR.Canberra. The FROG 8 will give you the correct wings. I have one on my site that I started that way some time ago. 

John

[BillF67]

Thanks John. Wasn’t looking to start any time soon so I can get the other bits together in slow time. I bought the kit because it was there. Probably wouldn’t have been later on when I was ready for it.

[BillF67]

Would a High Planes B(1)8 suffice?

[Giorgio N]

11 hours ago, rickshaw said:

It seems then, that most of your moans are just that, moans.  You can never please everybody 100% of the time.  For me, the High Planes kits are a little more expensive than an Airfix run-of-the-mill kit.  I enjoy them.  They are challenging but not excessively so.

 

 

Well mate, then I'll stop bothering you with my moans, even if I have a feeling that may be common to many other modellers.

In any case I've been on the forum long enough to know when it's time to stop wasting time in a discussion, better let others keep the thread going with information that may be of use to others

[rossm]

10 hours ago, BillF67 said:

Would a High Planes B(1)8 suffice?

Whilst @canberra kidis the fount of all anberra knowledge I'll add my recent experience with the same conversion set.........

 

I first tried to fit it to a Frog B(I)8 and found the difference in fuselage diameter was too much to get a decent fit. So now I've put it on an Italeri B-57 and it fitted almost perfectly. I still have one problem to overcome in that the canopy does not fit well - this is probably down to me as Aeroclub stuff is usually well engineered but I can't see what I did wrong and there is only one canopy so only one attempt possible.

 

Give me a day or two and I'll check the cut off Italeri bits - which must be the same diameter - against a High Planes B20 and the old Airfix B6. The problem with using an Italeri kit, apart from it's inaccuracy, is that it only has the American style engines which wasn't a problem for me as I wanted an RB-57A.

 

I also have the Airwaves resin set - and that is too small in diameter for the Italeri kit but includes British engine intakes. Again it's a vacform canopy and only one of them.

 

The High Planes B20 appears to contain intake fairings for both B2 and B6 style engines as well as two vacform canopies. I don't think you would need the conversion set if you went this route as you would only need to insert a short cylindrical section behind the cockpit and then cut out camera windows - John can doubtless confirm.

 

With the old Airfix B6 you need to replace or reprofile the nose as well as lengthen the fuselage, once I've dug in the loft I can tell you how good a fit that Aeroclub set is likely to be.

 

As you can tell I've a few Canberra bits and bobs lying around and I only want to make a TT18 so I can part with some of them. If any would work for you I'll let you know.

[BillF67]

So much knowledge. I’m gobsmacked!

 

What I cack-handedly meant, Rossm, was an Airfix B57 body and an HP B(1)8 for wings. Sorry for any confusion.

[canberra kid]

16 minutes ago, BillF67 said:

So much knowledge. I’m gobsmacked!

 

What I cack-handedly meant, Rossm, was an Airfix B57 body and an HP B(1)8 for wings. Sorry for any confusion.

Yes Bill that should work too. I'll get back to you later with more detail.

John

[rossm]

1 hour ago, canberra kid said:

Yes Bill that should work too. I'll get back to you later with more detail.

John

Sorry, @canberra kid but I'm going to contradict you. I'm not sure the Aeroclub conversion would be a good fit for the Airfix B-57, it seems to have been designed for the oversize italeri kit, here is my RB-57A conversion from the Italeri kit. I admit I haven't dug out my Airfix B-57 to measure it but I think it's based on their B6 which has a (correct) smaller diameter.

 

Sorry if all this is confusing you Bill, I don't want you to spend a load of money on incompatible parts and I know the Aeroclub conversion you have only fits the Italeri kit of the ones in my stash.

 

Come to that, I think if you had an HP B(I)8 all you would need would be a fuselage extension, some careful cutting and filling to fit the goldfish bowl canopy from your conversion and a modified cockpit.