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Mirage F.1C(T)- Laser Pods


Properjob56

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I'm currently building the 1/72 Airfix and Revell versions of the a/c and am about to start fitting 'things under wings'

 

The Airfix kit has AS.30L missiles included but, not surprisingly due to the age of the kit, no laser pod. No worries I thought as I knew the Revell kit had lots of armaments. So it did, PHIMAT, RAMORA, BARAX, Magic I & II, Matra 530's, Recon Pod/Fuel tank.  However the one thing it did not have was the ATLIS II pod which was usually used.

 

Now, on the weapons sprue of the Revell kit there is a long square thingie with what appears to be glazing at the front which I cant identify. Is it a laser pod that could be used instead of the ATLIS ?  ( It is depicted here next to the Phimat pod in the centre of the weapons sprue)

 

If not, suggestions? There is one in the rare as hens teeth Heller Armements set for £20 on Ebay. Res Kit dont have one in 1/72 nor Eduard. There are alternative systems to ATLIS for the AS.30 but none of them are depicted in scale so far as I can see. If that thingie on the sprue is unuseable I'll be a bit stuck. So, any help will be gratefully received and I will be forever in your debt (redeemable as coffee/cake or beer when next at Telford)

 

PS. I've also misplaced the exhaust nozzle from the Airfix kit so if you have one of those thats 2 coffees/beers!

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The AS.30 is not an LGB. It is a missile with a range of approx 10 km which was, in its initial form, guided to target by the pilot using a joystick. The -L version in the Airfix kit with the blunter nose was laser guided, usually by ATLIS.

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Not to contradict @eclipse but I'm fairly certain the F.1CT variant was LGB-capable. These were actually conversions from air defense-roled F.1s late in French service when the fighter role had largely been taken over by the Mirage 2000 (and then forthcoming Rafale).

 

In any case, while they were designed specifically to provide LGB delivery capability with the chin pod adding LRMTS (laser rangefinder/marked target seeker), I don't believe the CTs would typically have carried any pods for "self designation," relying instead either on another aircraft to "buddy lase" (e.g. Jaguar or Mirage 2000D with ATLIS or DAMOCLES), or ground-based designators.

 

The AS.30L as @Properjob56 correctly points out was not a laser-guided bomb (LGB) but rather a stand-off laser-guided missile, broadly similar to the U.S. Maverick. I don't recall any reference to the CT fleet carrying the AS.30L, as this was generally a role handled by the Jaguar (which commonly used the ATLIS pod).

 

So for an F.1CT I believe a typical "real world" load would be LGBs (Paveway II possibly more likely than the equivalent French types) and self-defense pods, e.g. Phimat and Remora, which are included in the Revell (née Special Hobby) kit.  I believe all the "unidentified" pods you mentioned are various reconnaissance kit used mainly by the F.1CR version, definitely not laser designators of any variety.

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Thanks for that.

2 supplementaries if you don't mind.

 

If the -CT's didn't use the AS.30, did the -C and so were Airfix right to include them in their boxing?

 

Would the Paveways have a separate targeting laser pod or would you rely on others to designate the target like with the AS.30'S?

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Mirage F1CT could launch LGB, but guided by JTAC or other aircraft with LDP. Mirage F1AZ could use AS 30 (without L), C version was a pure air-to-air platform. 

Mirage F1EQ used both AS 30 and 30L. 

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1 hour ago, Properjob56 said:

Thanks for that.

2 supplementaries if you don't mind.

 

If the -CT's didn't use the AS.30, did the -C and so were Airfix right to include them in their boxing?

 

Would the Paveways have a separate targeting laser pod or would you rely on others to designate the target like with the AS.30'S?

I'm a little confused about reference to an Airfix kit of the F.1 including AS.30s.  To my knowledge the only missiles included in any Airfix toolings of that variant are the R550 Magic and R530 air-to-air types (both standard for the type when it first entered French service).  You can see these on the sprues here:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235025084-obsolete-kit-build-airfix-mirage-f1/

 

You may be mistaking the R530 (seen next to the fuel tanks on the sprue) for AS30, but the latter are smaller missiles and the trailing edges of the forward fins are swept, among other detail differences.

 

So to answer your question both ways: yes Airfix did provide accurate missiles for an early F.1C; but to the best of my knowledge in French sevice the F.1C (and CT) never carried the AS30 operationally - that weapon and role were handled by the Jaguar and Mirage 2000D units.  There are some reports of Iraq using the AS30 on their F.1s, though I'm not certain which variant that would have been or what their designation setup would have been (Iraq pre-1991 had a wide range of weapons systems from East and West, and tended to "Frankenstein" systems together at times).

 

For Paveways, as per my original response an F.1CT in French service did not normally carry its own designation pod, just LGBs and countermeasures.

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3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Mirage F1CT could launch LGB, but guided by JTAC or other aircraft with LDP. Mirage F1AZ could use AS 30 (without L), C version was a pure air-to-air platform. 

Mirage F1EQ used both AS 30 and 30L. 

 

Just to expand a bit on this:

The F.1AZ was the "day attack" version without the advanced radar, as provided to South Africa (similar variants also going to Libya). Special Hobby does this version, but I'm not sure if the parts are in the Revell rebox.

 

The AS-30L is the laser-guided model of the AS-30 family, thus only that particular make would require a designation pod as such.

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3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Mirage F1CT is not particularly more LGB capable than other aircraft : even Mirage 2000C carries GBU-12 thanks to buddy lasing. 

Have to disagree on this, as the CT was optimized for the attack role and LGB delivery in particular - most notably by the addition of the LRMTS in the new chin pod added as part of the conversion.  I'm sure there were also internal/programming changes to the radar and weapons delivery software to better suit the change to "mud moving" role.

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Sorry, but TMV 630 and later 632 was not used for the use of LGB but of course for calculating distance to the target in order to estimate IP or RP (also for navigation realignment). Indeed Mirage F1CT has been designed in 80s for A/G role, but with classical bombs. He arrived in units in 1992 and first launch of GBU-12 in operation was for Allied Force in 1999 (first trial by Mirage F1CT of CEAM was made in june 1994).

Upgrade to T2 standard in 2003-2004 didn't deal with new LGB capacities... but new navigation capacities or ECM.

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For those after 1/72nd ATLIS pod, they are included in Italeri's 1/72nd Jaguar A/E and Mirage 2000D kits, as as AS30L's.

 

Incidentally, that combo was used by Pakistani F-16A's as well. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

 

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Well, many thanks to everyone who helped and a special mention for those detail photos from @Finn.

 

As ever, the simplest explanations are usually the best and thanks to @CT7567 for pointing out the difference between the AS.30 and R.530. In my defence of overthinking it, I am even less of an expert in French armaments than anything else. Now to put those yellow stripes under the fins(!). (BTW The offer of coffee and cake stands.)

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1457_1_afx04022_2.jpg

https://www.super-hobby.at/products/Mirage-F.1.html

the missiles on the lower left are definitely R.530. (radar or IR guided air to air missiles )not AS.30s (air to ground missiles)

2 missiles could be carried under the wings, one under the fuslage. The respective pylons can be found at ~the middle of this sprue. Air to ground pylons are of different shape, and and are left of the left fuselage half.

 

hope this helps!

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