RAAF F-111C compared to other marks question

[Peter Lloyd]

I find I hanker for a 1/72 RAAF F-111C.  My understanding is this version had wider span wings which were unique to this mark.

 

As Hasegawa, being Hasegawa, don't want to sell the C model their mould cutters so lovingly worked on, is there any possibility of using the D/F recently released by Hobby 2000?

[exdraken]

The F-111G and FB-111 also have the long span wings. Maybe this helps! Eg here:

https://www.scalemates.com/de/kits/hasegawa-00952-f-111c-g-aardvark-raaf--101139

[Michael louey]

Hi Peter

 

The long span wings sounds like its the main difference -

 

I wonder if the more available F111G would make a better starting point. I know there are differences between a C and G but can't recall how much of this varies in the Hasegawa kit.

 

A few months back I'm sure I saw them on local hobby shop shelves but a quick google search shows most places are out of stock. The only one at a reasonable price was this one here:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/233625716053?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=233625716053&targetid=1278276341467&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071361&poi=&campaignid=10101784991&mkgroupid=131275693908&rlsatarget=pla-1278276341467&abcId=9300367&merchantid=264045714&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjcvixInn8QIVDDUrCh3DwwwxEAYYASABEgJnx_D_BwE

 

Gundam Plus here in Melbourne has a lot of Hasegawa but not sure he has a F111G - you'll need to call him as he doesn't have a searchable web site, just a facebook shop front.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

[Giorgio N]

If you just want an Australian 111, then an FB-111 or F-111G (same variant, different designation) would work from the box as the RAAF used a number of these. Just add decals

[Pappy]

On 7/16/2021 at 5:37 PM, Michael louey said:

• Hi Peter

 

The long span wings sounds like its the main difference -

 

I wonder if the more available F111G would make a better starting point. I know there are differences between a C and G but can't recall how much of this varies in the Hasegawa kit.

 

A few months back I'm sure I saw them on local hobby shop shelves but a quick google search shows most places are out of stock. The only one at a reasonable price was this one here:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/233625716053?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&itemid=233625716053&targetid=1278276341467&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9071361&poi=&campaignid=10101784991&mkgroupid=131275693908&rlsatarget=pla-1278276341467&abcId=9300367&merchantid=264045714&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjcvixInn8QIVDDUrCh3DwwwxEAYYASABEgJnx_D_BwE

 

Gundam Plus here in Melbourne has a lot of Hasegawa but not sure he has a F111G - you'll need to call him as he doesn't have a searchable web site, just a facebook shop front.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

G'day Peter,

 

In short no.

 

As ED  correctly stated, the C had the longer wings as did the FB-111A (later re-designated F-111G) however:

The Gs had the Triple Plow II (TPII) air inlets which did not have splitter plates  of the Triple Plow I (TPI) and the F-111Gs air inlets had blow-in doors instead of the translating cowls of the F-111C

The G also had a different dump mast configuration and also featured low viz formation lights

Further, the G had a prominent 'bump' due to the astrotracker panel in front of the windscreen

Finally, the G had different wing pylons to the C and RAAF Cs later had their gun fairing removed and were instead fitted with the Pave Tack laser designation system (except for the four recce airframes), and the G models had the four piece bi-fold weapon bay doors rather than the PT cradle.

 

The Hasegawa kits get all these features correct but as you say they are harder to find and command a premium. Hobby 2000 apparently has recently reboxed the Hasegawa F-111 plastic in a more reasonably priced package I believe. 

 

You could use the G model kit for the longer wings but a better starting point would be an F-111A as this is what the F-111C airframe was based on. There were four ex-USAF F-111As that were bought to replace RAAF aircraft lost in accidents. These jets flew in RAAF markings for a little while before they were fitted with the wing extensions,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

Edited July 19, 2021 by Pappy

[Pappy]

 

On 7/16/2021 at 6:46 PM, Giorgio N said:

If you just want an Australian 111, then an FB-111 or F-111G (same variant, different designation) would work from the box as the RAAF used a number of these. Just add decals

 

Giorgio, Peter said he wanted a C variant specifically,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

Edited August 1, 2021 by Pappy

[f111guru]

Peter,

Facts that have been addressed are correct. The F-111C has the same length fuselage as the other models. Does have the translating cowl as the F-111A and USN F-111B test jets. The pivot pylons are the same shape as the other USAF Tactical version, F-111A,D,E, and F. The fuel dump mast has the same shape as the USAF TAC versions. The only F-111 that has the different dump mast is the FB-111A/F-111G. The first 2 photos are the F-111C.

This next series of photos are the different pivot pylons and dump masts. Starting with the FB-111A/F-111G.

This next is a pivot fuel tank pylon. This is a pointed pylon.

Below a weapons pivot pylon minus the MAU-12 bomb rack.

This below image is of the F-111F's that came from RAF Lakenheath to Cannon AFB New Mexico.

To make a C model from the current F-111 kits on the market you may have to step up to 1/48th scale from Hobby Boss. Hasegawa has released a reissue of the G model out but haven't seen it on any of the websites I use. They all are out of stock. If and when they get restocked get the F-111G kit. If Hasegawa stays true both sets of pivot, fixed pylons and dump mast are in the kit. So all you would have to do is get a set of decals. Each company that has produced the F-111 have had their issues with the final product.

 

Hope this helps and if and or when you get a kit and start, I have loads of info.

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

[tempestfan]

Sounds like an early boxing of the Revell kit may be an alternative, with all limitations inherent in a 50+ year old mould... 

[Cyberduck]

From memory didn't the Hasegawa kit have all the relevant parts for all the variants except for the tail & wings, which where specific to the boxing of the aircraft in the kit.

 

If the Hobby 2000 kit has all the parts, you just need to source an F-111C instruction sheet to sort it all out and decals

[72modeler]

Jim Rotramel is the other F-111 guru on this side of the pond; he has written articles for modelers detailing all the nuances of the 'Vark' as well as the necessary kit modifications. I will see if I can find a link to his article/s. In case you don't already have it, see the first link below. BTW, all of the details mentioned and illustrated by Ron @f111guru are right on the money. Good luck on your project- can't ever have too many F-111 models here on BM!

Mike

 

http://www.f-111.net/

 

Found it! This is an eight part article- everything you wanted to know or didn't even think to ask  about modeling the F-111! Jim is a heckuva nice guy, to boot! 

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/f111indetailjr_1.htm

 

 

 

 

[Giorgio N]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:08 AM, Pappy said:

 

 

Giorgio, Peterl said he wanted a C variant specifically,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

 

In that case the only option is to wait and hope for a Hasegawa reissue. 

Or move up to 1/48 scale.. the prices I've seen for the Hasegawa kit are often higher than the cost of a new Hobbyboss 1/48 kit. This suffers from some accuracy issues but can sure lead to an impressive model.. and is currently available 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Giorgio N

[Anatol Pigwa]

Would cross-kiting a Hasegawa EF-111 with a Fb-111A/ F-111G work?

 

18 hours ago, Cyberduck said:

From memory didn't the Hasegawa kit have all the relevant parts for all the variants except for the tail & wings, which where specific to the boxing of the aircraft in the kit.

 

If the Hobby 2000 kit has all the parts, you just need to source an F-111C instruction sheet to sort it all out and decals

Hobby 2000 has not released any long-wing F-111 (yet?)

[Cyberduck]

You don't need an EF-111A. It is a case of using the parts from the either the FB-111A or FB-111G for the long wings and the relevant parts for F-111C as I believe the FB-111A had different engines to the F-111C. 

 

I believe that there may be two sets of burner cans in the kit which are not used in the FB-111A, similar to what Hasegawa did with their Phantoms 

[f111guru]

I looked through all the Hasegawa instructions and the translating cowl only comes in the F-111A and EF-111A. For what ever the reasoning, Hasegawa had produced 2 different bottom fuselage halves. Each half had the intake cowl for that production run. That being said, Hasegawa had different sets of sprue for the model they were to mold. D/F had the P100 engine burner cans, pavetac cradle door pave tac pod, anti glare panel for the D. FB had the fuel dump mast, panel 1202 pitot tube and the SAC style astro tracker panel. EF had the lower ECM canoe, upper tear drop antenna, ram air ducting for the rear unit cooling and the tail with the bubble antenna. Plus the anti glare panel without the hud and main instrument panel with the extruded curved panel to replace the right stick. I did and still do wish someone would make an F-111B. All of the Hasegawa kits have the p series engines. I think I've covered most if not all parts. If not my apologies.

 

So to make a C model you may have to wait on somebody producing that model or buy and A and FB kit to make a C or purchase the G if available to make an RAAF G model.

 

I try to purchase at least one new or reissue F-111 kit I see. I know this doesn't help much because the kits are far and few between. If you know of anyone that has the original or reissue of the Revell TFX you have everything in one package. Just have a lot of work ahead of you.

 

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwarker

Edited July 17, 2021 by f111guru

[exdraken]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:08 AM, Pappy said:

 

 

Giorgio, Peterl said he wanted a C variant specifically,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

hmmm if you do not know that Austrialia also operated the G model you might not care that much!  when painted gunship grey it is hard to tell! if a C or a G model

 

[Pappy]

10 hours ago, exdraken said:

hmmm if you do not know that Austrialia also operated the G model you might not care that much!  when painted gunship grey it is hard to tell! if a C or a G model

 

G'day ED,

 

I was answering Peter's question, he specifically asked about the C rather than drifting into other options

 

If he had wanted a 1/72 F-111G he would have many more options but the C remains a rare animal, even rarer if you want to model an RF-111C.

 

As for how hard it is to tell different versions apart, it is actually very simple if you know the subject and what key parts of the airframe to look at, also no RAAF F-111Gs were ever painted in 1SQN markings and they definitely never flew in the SEA scheme either,

 

Pappy                                                                                                                                                                                                      T

 

[exdraken]

23 minutes ago, Pappy said:

G'day ED,

 

I was answering Peter's question, he specifically asked about the C rather than drifting into other options

 

If he had wanted a 1/72 F-111G he would have many more options but the C remains a rare animal, even rarer if you want to model an RF-111C.

 

As for how hard it is to tell different versions apart, it is actually very simple if you know the subject and what key parts of the airframe to look at, also no RAAF F-111Gs were ever painted in 1SQN markings and they definitely never flew in the SEA scheme either,

 

Pappy                                                                                                                                                                                                      T

 

Yeah, but if you wanna long wings, get a kit with long wings! Or extend them!

[Sydhuey]

Also the F-111C run the bigger F-111G main wheels and Brakes.

Basic config , F-111A fuselage with F-111G wings and Wheels/brakes gives you basic F-111C pre pavetack.

[Peter Lloyd]

A very big thanks for a comprehensive set of answers, and fast!

 

For clarification I'd like to finish my model in SEA scheme: growing up in the time I did, and as my father was still in RAAF air traffic control when the early F-111s arrived, that's what looks 'right' to me.  I built (well, more lashed-up) the RV Aircraft Mirage III-0 for a recent group build, my collection's first supersonic jet, so there's the inspiration.

 

I'd rather wait than kitbash, especially extending wings and other more major surgery, because 1. It's Hasegawa and the kit going together easily is part of the fun, saving energy for the short-run kit pain and 2. I don't want to take risks with a kit that will probably cost me a day's pay and 3. If I were to make a major effort, Murphy's Model and Hobbies would announce that the F-111C  is due for imminent release!

[Cyberduck]

I have rechecked the details on the F-111c and the F-111C is a hybrid of the F-111A, F-111B and FB-111A. The F-111C had the 8 F-111A pylons mounted on the extended wings of the F-111B with the reinforced undercarriage of the FB-111A. They had the TF30-P3 engines, the same as the F-111A, EF-111A with the Triple Plow I intake system. 

 

The General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark book by Don R Logan published by Schiffer Military History ISBN 13: 9780764305870 has a whole chapter on the F-111C with a picture of each aircraft, but pictures of the bottom of the fuselage are limited
 

[Nigel Bunker]

Oh boy, am I glad I have a Hasegawa 1/72 F-111C in the loft. I hadn't realised how scarce they are.

[Pappy]

10 hours ago, Sydhuey said:

Also the F-111C run the bigger F-111G main wheels and Brakes.

Basic config , F-111A fuselage with F-111G wings and Wheels/brakes gives you basic F-111C pre pavetack.

 

Correct, how much wider were the tyres and what does that equate to in 1/72?

 

In 1/48 it is about .7mm so the difference would be quite small in 1/72 and only noticeable if you placed the wider tyre  next to the normal one , even then it would not be overtly different. The brake area is mostly obscured by the undercarriage assembly. The wheel hubs are also different between F-111 variants as well.

 

Personally, if I was to opt for resin wheels it would not be because they were more dimensionally accurate but because they include the tyre tread which I usually end up destroying when I sand the tyre seams. I mean you could make the changes if you wanted to be accurate, or just spend the money on resin wheels, the builders choice really.

 

Peter, if you wanted something a little different for an RAAF F-111C in the SEA scheme you could paint the underside in light grey (FS 36622) as this was the the delivery paint scheme when your dad was an AIRTC,

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

Edited July 18, 2021 by Pappy

[stevehnz]

1 hour ago, Nigel Bunker said:

Oh boy, am I glad I have a Hasegawa 1/72 F-111C in the loft. I hadn't realised how scarce they are.

Me too.

I've enjoyed this thread a lot, very helpful. I have great memories of the Aussie F-111s doing dump & burns at a couple of airshows back in the 80s, in the SEAC colours of course, so keen to try & replicate one of those one day.

Steve 

[f111guru]

Same here, but also have a few D/F, E, last F and a bunch of Airfix, USAirfix, Revell, Testors and a few 1/144 scale F-111's. I may also have and FB or 2 but not for sure all in the stash. These are 1/72nd scale and in 1/48th scale Academy and Hobby Boss. Plus Aurora and Monogram.

This lower inage was built for a retiring Major I had worked for twice. Both are Hasegawa boxing of the FB-111A and the F-111D/F.

If anybody needs information or images of a certain area of the aardvark let me know. I keep searching for new or re-released aftermarket parts or new kits.  I see Hannants has the Hobby2000 D/f and F kit in stock. May have to get one for the boxing.

 

All The Best

Ron VanDerwarker

[k5054nz]

20 hours ago, Pappy said:

even rarer if you want to model an RF-111C.

*waves pathetically while dreaming of building A8-126 c.October 1988*

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by k5054nz