Jump to content

Markings for Airfix Spitfire Mk1a 1/72 kit


NORTHDUK
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am near to completing the Airfix Spitfire Mk1a in 1/72, A01071A, and will shortly need to start applying the decals.  I don't like the markings supplied, DW-K, and was wondering if the markings from the previous kit, AZ-H N3277, would be suitable for this one.   If not, has anyone any suggestions for decals from other sources that wouldn't involve wastefully buying a large sheet of decals just to use one of the options?  A typical, anonymous squadron machine would be ideal.

 

A look at my paint stock shows that a number of colours have dried up and need to be replaced.  What Humbrol enamel would anyone now recommend for RAF Dark Green suitable for WW2?

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

Edited by NORTHDUK
To add paint colour question.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NORTHDUK said:

I am near to completing the Airfix Spitfire Mk1a in 1/72, A01071A, and will shortly need to start applying the decals.  I don't like the markings supplied, DW-K, and was wondering if the markings from the previous kit, AZ-H N3277, would be suitable for this one.   If not, has anyone any suggestions for decals from other sources that wouldn't involve wastefully buying a large sheet of decals just to use one of the options?  A typical, anonymous squadron machine would be ideal.

 

A look at my paint stock shows that a number of colours have dried up and need to be replaced.  What Humbrol enamel would anyone now recommend for RAF Dark Green suitable for WW2?

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

 

Humbrol 116 is Fairly good dark green, or if you don’t want to play the Humbrol lottery there’s always Colourcoats enamels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tbolt said:

 

... or if you don’t want to play the Humbrol lottery there’s always Colourcoats enamels.

 

Lottery?  Don't you mean Russian roulette?

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, NORTHDUK said:

and was wondering if the markings from the previous kit, AZ-H N3277, would be suitable for this one.

yes, it's a Spitfire Ia

Maybe of interest, genuine colour

4871667320_9c927dbabe_c.jpgCaptured Spitfire      1940. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

8481634694_d097f105f2_b.jpgCaptured Spitfire 1940. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

5 hours ago, NORTHDUK said:

A typical, anonymous squadron machine would be ideal.

Note, 4 Spitfires carried the DW-K code

 

Or, use the 35 inch roundel, and cut the 'K' into a 'T'

64d04d3d.jpg

 

HTH

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a pretty rough-looking field repair on the battle damage on N3277. Don't think I'd have wanted to be the first one to fly her after that patch was applied!

Edited by Rolls-Royce
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/11/2021 at 7:58 AM, Troy Smith said:

yes, it's a Spitfire Ia

Maybe of interest, genuine colour

4871667320_9c927dbabe_c.jpgCaptured Spitfire      1940. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

8481634694_d097f105f2_b.jpgCaptured Spitfire 1940. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Note, 4 Spitfires carried the DW-K code

 

Or, use the 35 inch roundel, and cut the 'K' into a 'T'

64d04d3d.jpg

 

HTH

 

Of interest, what colours for the Brown and Green would the Germans have used for the overpainting on this aircraft?

Thanks 

Phil 

Canberra - The Nation's Capital.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, draggie748 said:

Of interest, what colours for the Brown and Green would the Germans have used for the overpainting on this aircraft?

good question.   I don't think there is any brown used, just green, and RLM71 Dunkelgrun is reasonably close to RAF Dark Green.     The bottom image may have been touched up as well,   

 

The image come from @Etiennedup flickr, and he is careful to use period colour, but I don't know more about the photos.    Perehaps he can add some details.

HTH

T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

good question.   I don't think there is any brown used, just green, and RLM71 Dunkelgrun is reasonably close to RAF Dark Green.     The bottom image may have been touched up as well,   

The top and bottom horizontal strokes of the Z have been over painted in a brown

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi chaps,

 

The image in question  ( with the Balkenkreuz ) was found on the internet  more than eight years ago, but a quick search could not relocate the website.

I do recall that parts of the fuselage and wing were very fuzzy and dark  and had to be lightened to conform to the rest of the photo.

In these parts I added colour but used the identical colours that were on the "better" part of the photo.

..........so yes,  about 10% was added by me, but only to present an overall viewable image

Have a look here for another  colour image of the same aircraft.       https://captured-wings.wikia.org/wiki/N3277  

 

Cheers.

 

Etienne

PS commiserations with the football.....

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, my thanks to everyone who replied.

 

Graham Boak makes a good point about the condition of the decals in the old Spitfire kit.  I bought it years ago in the ridiculous belief that I could use the wings in conjunction with an Aeroclub vacform fuselage to produce a Seafire XVII.  After all this time, including twenty-two years in my damp loft, the decals may well be too far gone.  

 

I'm a little puzzled by the reference to "the Humbrol lottery".  I haven't bought any Humbrol paint since before lockdown.  Has it taken a turn for the worse since then? 

 

Thanks to Troy Smith for the photographs.  I didn't know that AZ-H had been shot down and it was interesting to see it in colour.  The idea of changing DW-K to DW-T is ingenious and would be an easy way to produce another aircraft from the same squadron but my dislike of the DW-K markings is simply the fact that the oversized looking code letters don't appeal to me.  I'll be bringing the old Spitfire kit down from the loft tomorrow and will see if the decals are still usable.  If not, I'll be searching for decals from some other source,

 

Thanks again for your help.  This has been an interesting and helpful thread.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, NORTHDUK said:

  I'll be bringing the old Spitfire kit down from the loft tomorrow and will see if the decals are still usable.  If not, I'll be searching for decals from some other source,

I can let you have some

proviso; I only post within the UK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, NORTHDUK said:

... the old Spitfire kit.  I bought it years ago in the ridiculous belief that I could use the wings in conjunction with an Aeroclub vacform fuselage to produce a Seafire XVII. 

 

To be fair, that was the donor kit John Adams recommended - and the best available option at the time.   I have a stock of the same kit purchased for the same reason.  Very different from nowadays when some people get apoplectic over a misplaced panel line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Black Knight,

 

Thanks for the offer.  I brought the kit down and had a look at the decal sheet which looked OK at first sight.  One of the markings was out of register although the rest were fine so I cut the faulty one off the sheet and tried it out.  I'm not at all sure what the marking is, a personal insignia or squadron marking possibly.  After a long soak in warm water, it strongly resisted efforts to coax it off the backing paper and finally broke into pieces.  This suggests that the sheet has had it so I'd like to take you up on the offer of some alternatives.  I live in Northumberland and have PM'd you my address.

 

Let me know where we go from here.

 

Thanks again,

 

Gordon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seahawk,

 

When I found the Spitfire kit in the loft, the Aeroclub parts were stored next to it.  I'm not a fan of vacforms but I'd like a model of the Seafire XVII some day.  Is there now an injection moulded kit of it?  If not, how do you think you would you go about making a model of it with whatever is available nowadays?

 

Gordon 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jays Models sell the ex-Ventura Seafire 17.  These kits are basic but pretty accurate.  They need some work in preparation before assembly and benefit from added detail.  However there is no obvious way of producing one by chopping and changing more modern kits of other variants.  Of course it can be done - any such conversion can be done - but personally I'd go for the Jays model as a starting point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding AZ-H/N3277 that landed near Cherbourg on 15th August the excellent Wingleader book on the Spitfire 1 suggests that the background colour of the emblem probably wasn't yellow but another light colour, possibly light blue or grey. 

 

Regards

Colin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/15/2021 at 5:33 PM, NORTHDUK said:

... but I'd like a model of the Seafire XVII some day.  Is there now an injection moulded kit of it?  If not, how do you think you would you go about making a model of it with whatever is available nowadays?

 

The Ventura (now Jay's) Seafire F.17 does (or should - I haven't built mine yet) scrub up nicely.  It looks crude at first sight with thick sprue gates and flash but the underlying parts are accurate and cleanly moulded.  Vacform canopies and clearly moulded white metal accessories eg cannon.  Many detail parts are however either absent or crude: if I were building one today, I would probably rob as many detail parts as possible from a cheap Eduard Spitfire which of course puts up the price.

 

Currently my preferred option would be the Sword Seafire F.17.  This has, to the best of my knowledge, been available in 3 iterations: Seafire F.17, Seafire F.17 x 2 (2 kits in the same box, for what didn't seem like a lot more than they were charging for one first time round) and most recently (in the last 4 years or so) in a very tempting 5-pack of Sword Seafires (2 different Seafire IIs, 2 different Seafire F.15s and the Seafire F.17) at a very tempting price of about £30-35 if you choose your retailer wisely.  It's the same plastic in all three.  It's apparently a little short in wingspan but not, IMHO, noticeably so.  Sword's trademark nice shiny plastic, resin cannon and exhausts, 3- and 4 spoke wheels, torpedo under-fuselage drop tank.   NB that the upper wing does not feature the large bulges on later Seafire F.17s to accommodate the wider 3-spoke wheels [EDIT: see correction below] so strictly speaking you are limited to aircraft up to SX330.  My copy (the first and most expensive issue) has markings for 3 aircraft, all in that earlier range.

 

I think most modellers will be very happy with the Sword offering (suspect mine will get built before the Ventura one) but, if I were striving towards the ultimate, I might still consider a Jay's kit (which also doesn't have the wheel bulges BTW) tarted up with Eduard bits. 

 

HTH

 

CORRECTION  Just checked.  The Sword kit DOES feature wing bulges as separate parts which the instructions would have you apply regardless of serial no or wheel type.  I haven't checked whether they are accurate (clear photographs of the real thing are difficult to come by) but at the very least you can show you knew about the difference and have tried to reflect it!

Edited by Seahawk
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Graham Boak and Seahawk,

 

Thanks for your suggestions for a Seafire XVII kit.  Some years ago, I built a Ventura Spitfire PRXI kit.  I fought it tooth and nail, abandoned it three or four times and eventually finished it.  There's no doubt that it looks good and seems to me to be an accurate Spitfire.  Whether it was worth the effort involved is a question  that I still can't answer.  I'd be reluctant to tackle another Ventura kit, especially if the Sword kit is still available.  Until Seahawk mentioned it, I had no idea that Sword had made any Seafire kits.  I've tended to associate them mainly with US subjects.  As Seahawk says, there aren't many photographs of the XVII but there was a nice article in Aircraft Illustrated in the 1970s that had some decent pictures.  If I can find a Sword kit that doesn't stretch the pension too far, I'll go for that.

 

fishplanebeer,

 

Thanks for the colour information on the symbol on N3277.  The few photographs that I've found of this Spitfire all show the starboard side so I've no clear idea of what this symbol was meant to be.  The fatally out of register decal in the Airfix kit was just a yellow disk and some random black and red marks that defied interpretation.  Do you know what it was?

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, NORTHDUK said:

If I can find a Sword kit that doesn't stretch the pension too far, I'll go for that.

Hannant's still carry the 5x Seafire Sword box,  Mk.III, Mk.IIC, Mk.XV late version, Mk.XV early version, Mk.XVII

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

Hannant's still carry the 5x Seafire Sword box,  Mk.III, Mk.IIC, Mk.XV late version, Mk.XV early version, Mk.XVII

 

It looks as if MJW Models are doing them quite a bit cheaper at £37.62 (they've gone up!).  But even at Hannants' prices you still get a lot of modelling for your money.

 

I wasn't meaning photos of Seafire F.17s are thin on the ground, but photos showing the size and shape of the overwing blister are.  A much missed former member found an excellent one but that's lost in the mists of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NORTHDUK said:

there aren't many photographs of the XVII but there was a nice article in Aircraft Illustrated in the 1970s that had some decent pictures. 

walkround here

 

1 hour ago, Seahawk said:

but photos showing the size and shape of the overwing blister are.

 

On 16/07/2021 at 10:23, Seahawk said:

NB that the upper wing does not feature the large bulges on later Seafire F.17s to accommodate the wider 3-spoke wheels

 

they are pretty flat

sx336%2018.jpg

 

sx336%2013.jpg

pics from walkround linked above

 

but are the same on an y Spitfire/Seafire with them fitted, and,  most warbirds. 

 

I'll add in a pic if  I find a better one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/10/2021 at 10:58 PM, Troy Smith said:

yes, it's a Spitfire Ia

Maybe of interest, genuine colour

4871667320_9c927dbabe_c.jpgCaptured Spitfire      1940. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

8481634694_d097f105f2_b.jpgCaptured Spitfire 1940. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Note, 4 Spitfires carried the DW-K code

 

Or, use the 35 inch roundel, and cut the 'K' into a 'T'

64d04d3d.jpg

 

HTH

 

 

The first shot above is a colourised black & white image.

 

It appears on the Aircrew Remembered website - P/O R Hardy. 

 

The second photo is almost certainly colourised too. I've not found it online as yet but it bears all the hallmarks, and other images in the sequence are all b&w. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seahawk,

 

I wasn't meaning photos of Seafire F.17s are thin on the ground, but photos showing the size and shape of the overwing blister are.

 

Sorry, I understood what you meant but my rather shorthand reply didn't make that clear.  As far as I remember, the Aircraft Illustrated article had at least one view of the aircraft from above but I haven't seen it for several years and could be mistaken.  I shall try to find it and let you know.  MJW Models are just up the road from here so I'll try to convince myself that I need this boxing.  I'd like a Seafire III and the XVII but I'm not so struck on the XV and I know little about the IIc.  Still, I'm tempted!

 

Troy Smith,

 

Thanks for the walkarounds.  They provide a lot of useful detail and are remakably clear (clearer, anyway, than any photographs that I manage to take).

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The emblem on the port side only of N3277 is a black swastika with a red hand breaking through the centre showing two fingers in the time honoured British fashion!

 

I'll scan the colour plate from the Wingleader book and upload/insert as soon as I can to make it a bit clearer.

 

Regards

Colin.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...