Jump to content

I envy people who buy ready made PCs...


RobL
 Share

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

So, among other things I'm a video gamer.  I've noted that there is an increasing push by developers to require gamers to have Windows 10 to play the latest game.  I've been running Windows 7 just fine until now, all the games I play at the moment work, however as Microsoft offer a free upgrade I decided this weekend just gone to take the plunge and upgrade to Windows 10.

 

So late on Saturday I cloned my Windows 7 drive to an exactly the same SSD which I had earlier moved stuff off and formatted (because I cannot at the moment buy a new drive).

 

So far so good, took a couple of hours to do.  Sunday I started on the process of upgrading to Windows 10.  It started fine, then got stuck on a "this is taking a while" screen, so I rebooted.  Windows 10 booted up fine, although things weren't working, MS Store and Calculator for example and I was having some issues with my mouse (so far "fixed" by adjusting a setting in the BIOS).  So after some time and digging around on the interweb, on Monday, I decided to do an in-place upgrade (basically acting as a non-destructive repair)...

 

...that seemed to have fixed the issues and every game I was playing on Windows 7 (apart from Elder Scrolls Oblivion) seem to work, so far, as do all the applications I currently use.  I then started to proceed to uninstall some stuff that was left over from Windows 7 that I no longer need.  And...

 

...started getting a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) with a couple of codes every time I tried do things like uninstalling stuff or cleaning up the left over old windows files.  Fast forward to today and I've had more of the same issue - just by opening Chrome and clicking on a web based radio station's stream player link!  Seems be happening randomly because despite changing a setting in the power options (turning off fast startup) I have just had another of the same BSOD, by going to Google Translate on Firefox!?!

 

 

My [insert deity name here] this has been a pita!  I never had such a problem installing and getting Windows 7 running, even when I migrated from a HDD to an SSD!  That only took me a day!

 

Luckily I still have Windows 7 (dual booting with Windows 10) to fall back on if I need to (or want to play Elder Scrolls Oblivion)!

 

At this point I really do envy people who can afford to just go out and buy a new PC with the latest OS pre-installed when developers force them to upgrade to play a new video game or application!

Edited by RobL
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't - after building computers for the last 34 years and working as a IT consultant (in which service I've handled any number of computer acquisition / network installing/ replacing in BIG numbers) I have come to the conclusion that price and perfomance / reliability seldom match each other.

Add a crappy OS and there you have it!

 

Buy a full Win 10 license and do a clean install and you have a far better chance of having a reliable (as far as Win 10 goes... that is :) ) computer.

It beats hands down the difference in price of buying a new ready-made box.

 

OS "updates" (the rolling over of a new OS over an earlier) are seldom a good thing (this covers not only MS but most other OS including Linux). Games' previously installed complicate things further

Almost all the Win 7 - Win 10 updates I've seen ultimately failed and had to be replaced with a clean install - whereupon everything started working properly

 

Good luck!

 

PS. NEVER force a reboot when OS installation is ongoing.

 

Cheers, Moggy (digital cat since 1982)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Moggy said:

Buy a full Win 10 license and do a clean install

I agree doing a clean install is the way to go, if possible totally format the drive then start from there.

 

You should however you should be able to avoid having to pay for the license. If you have it running currently then you can log into a microsoft account within windows and link the OS activation key to the account, then after your clean install you can activate it by logging into the account again. you might not even have to go that far as in some cases the OS pulls data on the Hardware ID's in your system to verify that its had a legit copy installed before. (I say in some cases because I know its supposed to work that way but I have seen occasions where it doesn't work)

 

All that being said BSOD's are almost always caused by a memory issue, sometimes software related if something isn't playing nice in the OS, but it could also be hardware and just a coincidence that its happening now. Have you physically moved your PC recently? if so it could be that a stick has been dislodged slightly. or possibly one has died if they are on the older side. I'd try re-seating the RAM just in case, and if you're still having issues try going down to a single stick and swapping them around to see if one of them is dodgy.

 

Edit: I also agree with Moggy in that I've almost never seen an OS "upgrade" successfully, there's always some kind of weirdness afterwards.

Edited by Ravnos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Unfortunately an upgrade is the only way I could go, as I don't have, and may not be able to get, installers for some of the stuff I have installed, and some of of the applications I have may have installers that just don't work in Windows 10.  That may or may not be an issue, but I find it's always the case that you think that, then you need something and can't get hold of it!

 

Anyway I'm limping on.  I have Windows 7 to go back to if I keep encountering BSODs regularly in Windows 10 to the point where it interrupts gaming/general use of applications.

 

If I could be bothered doing a clean install and installing everything again (what I can at least) I would, but reports across web media indicated that an upgrade from Windows 7 should work fine...

Edited by RobL
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Moggy said:

Buy a full Win 10 license and do a clean install and you have a far better chance of having a reliable (as far as Win 10 goes... that is :) ) computer.

 

Completely agree. I performed clean installs of Windows 10 on 2 PCs last year and have done a fair few Windows 7 and XP installs over the years, every one trouble free.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, RobL said:

reports across web media indicated that an upgrade from Windows 7 should work fine...

Only if the software that you run is fully compatible with windows 10.

 

I'd agree with what the guys above have said. A clean install is definitely the way to go. BSOD's 99% of the time is hardware related the other 1% is down to incompatible software. I have used win 10 since the day it launched, and only ever had a BSOD when I had a faulty memory stick on an old laptop. As soon as I swapped out that memory, no further problems, and Win 10 has been re-installed several times since.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Yeah thanks guys.  Memory is my next thing to test/diagnose.  Don't have the money to buy new RAM though.  Not at this precise moment at least.  And if it is the culprit I'll just go back to Windows 7 as it exhibits no issues at the moment (or didn't before I upgraded and dual booted with Windows 10).

 

It's running Red Dead Redemption 2 alright though, at least for the brief 15 minutes I've just played it, and if anything RDR2 shouldn't even be able to be run on my PC.  Although MSI Afterburner Riva Statistics wasn't displaying in-game, despite showing up during the game's startup.  And it's a fresh new version of MSI Afterburner I installed last night.

 

The BSOD's I've been getting are KMODE exception not handled and attempt at switch from DPC, both of which t'interwebz seem to think could also be driver related (but then the internet can't seem to agree on any diagnosis for these BSODs, no change there then), so I've installed the Windows 10 drivers for my Asus motherboard (a Z97P), something which I hadn't yet done.  So I'll see how it goes.  Haven't had a BSOD whilst using the computer this past couple of hours though (seems to happen the most when uninstalling an application/driver package that was installed in Windows 7)...

 

I've installed/upgraded OS's on several computers over the past 15 years though and never known such a pita install/upgrade!

Edited by RobL
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Upgrades don't always deal with all the drivers either and the issue with W10 is that it doesn't like some (a lot) of Windows 7 drivers. If you have a Microsoft account you should have or can create a digital signature that can be used as  authentication for  a clean Windows 10 installation. In my experience Microsoft has always been forthcoming about installation and authentication issues without a bit of prodding. Windows 11 is going to be interesting as it is apparently based on Windows 10 with a new GUI and more security. Evolution rather than revolution. I am glad pall my content is kept on a separate drive to my OS. 

Windows 10 installation on a new home built last year was the easiest ever. 

Edited by Mr T
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Windows has gone right down the pan since W10, and I suspect that W11 will be worse.  They've become obsessed with data-mining, and have made it their business to hide all the settings that switch off the "telemetry" as they innocently call it, to make it difficult for us proles to get it switched off.  If I didn't play games, I'd ditch Windows on my gaming machine, but for now I'll have to keep it.  I've tested my workshop PC and it's not going to be W11 compatible, as it doesn't have the Trusted Platform Module on the motherboard.  I've checked, and there's nothing to switch on in the BIOS.  I'm not so bothered though.  I'm considering turning my workshop machine into a Hackintosh at some point.  We'll see. :hmmm:

 

I wouldn't change from building my own PCs to buying them off the shelf if I could help it.  You lose all the flexibility of mucking about with the innards, and you're at the whim of some penny-pinching number-cruncher that has picked the component list to the bones in order to maximise profit at the expense of performance and longevity.  I prefer to pick every component and manufacturer for my machines.  I don't even bother looking to see if it costs more or less, I just do it.  I'm an inveterate tinkerer with anything, so it's almost a hobby. :shrug:

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

Windows has gone right down the pan since W10, and I suspect that W11 will be worse.  They've become obsessed with data-mining, and have made it their business to hide all the settings that switch off the "telemetry" as they innocently call it, to make it difficult for us proles to get it switched off.  If I didn't play games, I'd ditch Windows on my gaming machine, but for now I'll have to keep it.  I've tested my workshop PC and it's not going to be W11 compatible, as it doesn't have the Trusted Platform Module on the motherboard.  I've checked, and there's nothing to switch on in the BIOS.  I'm not so bothered though.  I'm considering turning my workshop machine into a Hackintosh at some point.  We'll see. :hmmm:

I was wondering when somebody was going to bring up Win 10 spying on us all. Since beta testing Win 10 I decided that Win 7 was going to be my last MS OS.

I've been running two Linux boxes to test the different  OS flavors and desktop flavors. Now I'm down to Mint Cinnamon 19.3 Tricia (based on Ubuntu 18.04 Bionic) , Ubuntu 20.04 Focal Fossa and the latest Manjaro.

 

I've run Win7 and Win10 both dual boot (it worked well enough inc, games), run both in a virtual machine (everything worked OK)  - but most interestingly I run a number of MS universe applications via WINE och WINETRICKS plus games on PlayOnLinux. Steam is of course good too.

 

The Open Source universe is full of world-class software FREE conveniently presented in its own application (Play on Google and Win11 "new" such are lifted from Linux)

Another great feature is that most of my older peripherals (read Abandonware) suddenly works again! My favorite piece of abandonware is my Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar now brought back to life to life (with some work) by Linux Mint :)

 

For the refugee from Windows looking to get a better experience without getting spied and having his private info and preferences sold to the corp with the most dollars: my recommendation is Mint Cinnamon. It has worked perfectly for the last year and a half. The GUI is highly adaptable to whatever serves you best. There are two two themes that mimic W10 and Win7 for an easy transition if you wish.

 

So sometime this autumn my main box will have a clean install Mint Cinnamon!

 

Cheers, Moggy (Linux fanboy 🤪)

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Unfortunately, when not between jobs as I am currently, I'm an office worker (general office bod and former BlackBerry 1st line helpdesk person), and office workers don't use machines with Linux (in my experience), so I have a need to keep up with Windows versions, besides gaming.  I was volunteering at an organisation that helps vulnerable people, until the pandemic response hit last March, and they were using Windows 10, first time I had used it, luckily it's so similar to Windows 7 I managed OK.

 

I think for the next iteration upgrade, as late as possible, I'll have to find some magic beans to pay for a new PC (my current one I've upgraded to Win 10 is 6 years old, and wasn't "top end" to start with)...

 

I feel a similar pressure with video conferencing, never done it until recently, don't wish to do it really, and I don't have a webcam, but I was forced by the "programme" I've been referred to by the Job Centre to attend a video call last week.  Had to use my smartphone, for what can loosely be called a presentation that is best viewed on a desktop PC's monitor!

Edited by RobL
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Moggy said:

I was wondering when somebody was going to bring up Win 10 spying on us all.

Are you really that much of an international security risk? :P


Because, if you really want to be consistent, it means:

- no Android or Apple 

- no dumbphone as well (signal triangulation)

- no internet browsing (every browser sends device fingerprints along - note I didn't even mention cookies or ad trackers)

 

Back to the Offline Productivity Pack it is: pencil and paper. Or, for the diehards: cuneiform tablets. :evil_laugh:

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have done nothing to merit the attention of the NSA or Putler's digital henchmen ..yet :)

 

However I despise ads, specially "tailored" ads :P  We must have a right to keep our private info... private.

Does the name Cambridge Analytica ring a bell? 😉

 

I use Firefox with its privacy features; being made by a non profit that has as a mission to help keep our privacy on line is a good choice since they do not harvest our data for profit (as Google Chrome does as a matter of course)

 

Adding the No Script addon protects me from unwanted javascript features. This allows me to choose from different features in a web site - denying all ad crap access and most cookies to my browser. The result is I see very little of the pervasive ads found in most sites. As a byproduct it keeps malware lurking in many sites (some hit by hackers, some by design) away!

 

Finally, a really good VPN service masks my IP number and keeps nosy ISP data harvesting out as well.

Anti-malware Bit Defender keeps the rest of the nasties away.

 

Cheers, Moggy (cat privacy defender)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2021 at 8:27 PM, Mike said:

Windows has gone right down the pan since W10, and I suspect that W11 will be worse.  They've become obsessed with data-mining, and have made it their business to hide all the settings that switch off the "telemetry" as they innocently call it, to make it difficult for us proles to get it switched off.  If I didn't play games, I'd ditch Windows on my gaming machine, but for now I'll have to keep it.  I've tested my workshop PC and it's not going to be W11 compatible, as it doesn't have the Trusted Platform Module on the motherboard.  I've checked, and there's nothing to switch on in the BIOS.  I'm not so bothered though.  I'm considering turning my workshop machine into a Hackintosh at some point.  We'll see. :hmmm:

 

I wouldn't change from building my own PCs to buying them off the shelf if I could help it.  You lose all the flexibility of mucking about with the innards, and you're at the whim of some penny-pinching number-cruncher that has picked the component list to the bones in order to maximise profit at the expense of performance and longevity.  I prefer to pick every component and manufacturer for my machines.  I don't even bother looking to see if it costs more or less, I just do it.  I'm an inveterate tinkerer with anything, so it's almost a hobby. :shrug:

The data-mining "telemetry" in Win10 can be controlled. There is free software from O&O software called ShutUp10. Find out more here. Obviously, one can't really tell how well it works unless you can do a before & after comparison . . .

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fifer54 said:

The data-mining "telemetry" in Win10 can be controlled. There is free software from O&O software called ShutUp10. Find out more here. Obviously, one can't really tell how well it works unless you can do a before & after comparison . . .

I've gone the Spybot Anti Beacon route, which is 7 euros a year, which I don't mind.  They're a well-respected company IFAIK too :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless you've taken all those measures since 2004 (at least), I'm afraid it's a case of closing the barn door when the horse has already bolted for some time. 
 

Then again, people often say I'm a pessimistic cynical b**ard optimist with experience, so YMMV. :P

---

In other news: pre-built PCs are fine as long as you choose wisely.

I've used a mix of homebuilt/barebone/prebuilt and all of those have their pros and cons. 
A Surface Pro 2 I bought in 2013 still runs W10, albeit not the most recent and the battery is only good for 15 minutes.

There are three Intel NUC barebones and an Asus barebone/homebuilt working as virtualisation hosts, and this year bought a pre-built gaming PC because.. well.... that was the only way to get a decent Graphics card really.


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My laptop came with Windows 10. Hated it...  put in a new SSD, installed Linux Mint and put Windows 7 on Virtualbox for the odd legacy program I still need.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2021 at 10:51 AM, Moggy said:

Buy a full Win 10 license and do a clean install and you have a far better chance of having a reliable (as far as Win 10 goes... that is :) ) computer.

^^^ This.

 

I built my current PC a couple of years ago specifically for flight simming, and bought Windows 10 so I could do a fresh, bare-metal install. Went through and shut off every unnecessary piece of telemetry, enabled the firewall, installed Avast, NoScript, uBlock Origin and ProtonVPN. I honestly haven't had a moment's trouble with it and run updates and patches when they turn up. My only issue was assuming that 3 TB would be plenty of storage. Ahem.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I periodically need to reinstall Windows on my dear wife's desktops. I always buy a new disk for this leaving the old disk intact to copy important data. I've also moved all of her self-stored files onto other disks; sadly Windows insists on intermingling user and system data so the separation not as complete as it is on my Linux systems.

 

Migration from spinning rust to SSD on her laptop was accomplished with the free Macrium Reflect. Install the M.2 SSD, run the Macrium SW, remove the spinning rust. Done.

 

BTW, after you replace a disk, take the old disk out to the workshop and bash the daylights out of it. :fight:

Back in the day, disks removed from secure facilities would have the oxide sand-blasted off the platters. Now they're shredded. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, John Laidlaw said:

^^^ This.

 

I built my current PC a couple of years ago specifically for flight simming, and bought Windows 10 so I could do a fresh, bare-metal install. Went through and shut off every unnecessary piece of telemetry, enabled the firewall, installed Avast, NoScript, uBlock Origin and ProtonVPN. I honestly haven't had a moment's trouble with it and run updates and patches when they turn up. My only issue was assuming that 3 TB would be plenty of storage. Ahem.

I have a 1TB SSD for my OS drive, a 4TB HDD for my data drive (games) a 500MB NVMe drive as a spare drive along with a 650MB HDD for internal backup. Alongside these, I also have a 256GB SSD that boots Kubuntu Linux. Externally I have 2x2Tb NAS drive that all our music, photos etc are stored on that is accessed by myself and wife. This is also cloud enabled so is accessible from anywhere we have internet access! I'm definitely not short on storage 😉

(Forgot to mention, PC self built with Win10 as main os; no off the shelf PC in the last 25 years or so. Except for the first one I bought in the mid to late 90s. Since then, all self built)

Edited by treker_ed
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2021 at 3:17 PM, RobL said:

 

At this point I really do envy people who can afford to just go out and buy a new PC with the latest OS pre-installed when developers force them to upgrade to play a new video game or application!

That'll be my 14 year old son then. He saved and saved to buy a gaming PC. He thought he knew it all. But when it came to buying one he had to consult the ancient dinosaur that he thinks I am. I did once work for IBM after all. 

 

I seriously considered building one but In the end I got a half decent one from Curry's which is expandable. 

 

He soon ran into the usual issues someone used to consoles run into. I did feel a bit smug being called in to rescue him on several occasions. 

 

One thing that struck me was the price for the capability. I remember paying twice the price back in the nineties for a PC less capable than a cheap Smartphone these days. 

 

So I envy him too. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...