New Tool Vulcan B2 - "rivet counted" build X2 - second build now active

[Adam Poultney]

1 minute ago, Gondor44 said:

Seriously though, would you mind if I copy, cut, paste and edit the thread so I can distill all this lovly info on the kit so I know what details I have to leave or add for each of the three builds I plan to do?

 

Gondor

Go for it 😂

I will probably make a condensed version in my RFI thread when it's done, but even that may be lengthy

[Gondor44]

7 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Go for it 😂

I will probably make a condensed version in my RFI thread when it's done, but even that may be lengthy

Ta muchly

 

 

Gondor

 

Now wondering where he will store or even build any Vulcan kits

[general melchett]

Quote

That probably would have been my choice for a primary reference example, although I'm biased as I prefer the 200 series airframes. It's in a hangar so it's in very good condition, I don't recall any major alterations being made by the museum, it looks like there's just about space to put equipment to get a look at the top side but I'm not entirely sure on that.

 

That's the reason...lack of space to get full coverage.

 

Quote

Seriously though, would you mind if I copy, cut, paste and edit the thread so I can distill all this lovly info on the kit so I know what details I have to leave or add for each of the three builds I plan to do?

 

I would suggest just get hold of Craig Bulman's book. Everything you need to know is in there and broken down into easily digestible sections, covering every airframe in great detail. Invaluable tome...

 

 

[Gondor44]

25 minutes ago, general melchett said:

 

That's the reason...lack of space to get full coverage.

 

 

I would suggest just get hold of Craig Bulman's book. Everything you need to know is in there and broken down into easily digestible sections, covering every airframe in great detail. Invaluable tome...

 

 

I take it your refering to "The Vulcan B.Mk2 from a Different Angle" 2nd edition preferably General?

 

Gondor

[general melchett]

Quote

I take it your refering to "The Vulcan B.Mk2 from a Different Angle" 2nd edition preferably General?

 

That's the one Gondor, both editions are excellent but additional info/photos added to the 2nd. Allows anyone to become a Vulcan 'expert' in no time, it proved extremely useful for my builds of the original kit, even more useful now. Well worth the investment.

[IanF661]

Loving the work so far. Looks like I'd better replace some of my old mould Vulcans (about 6) either that, or use them to make various Mk1's. I've got a few of the flightpath conversion sets... I wasn't impressed with the rear bullet fairing, I found it very undersized.... 

 

[Adam Poultney]

1 minute ago, IanF661 said:

Loving the work so far. Looks like I'd better replace some of my old mould Vulcans (about 6) either that, or use them to make various Mk1's. I've got a few of the flightpath conversion sets... I wasn't impressed with the rear bullet fairing, I found it very undersized.... 

 

There were multiple versions of the B1 tailcone so that may be who was undersized

[Adam Poultney]

@general melchettBefore I get any further into this build and since you've built the kit already, any fit issues, awkward parts etc that I should be looking out for?

[DonH]

Hi,

I am enjoying this / these build(s) immensely. It’s great to learn more about this amazing aircraft.

 

I thought you might be interested to know that Fundekals are going to reissue their Vulcan sheet (with correct roundels):

 

“… if you’d like to let folks know that we’re overhauling and improving our decal, and that it will be going to the printer shortly. It will definitely have correct size roundels (as did our reprint - only the initial release had the incorrect sized ones), as well as significant improvements all around.”

[general melchett]

I

Quote

Before I get any further into this build and since you've built the kit already, any fit issues, awkward parts etc that I should be looking out for?

 

 

It's been a while since I built it but I remember not being happy with the nose cone break line. As you now know, care is needed in eliminating the seam line and keeping the smooth contour of the nose (I used 'sprue goo' to fill/blend and a contour-gauge and maintain the shape). It doesn't fall on a natural panel line so has to be completely hidden. Care is also needed in lining up and fitting the bulged tail cone, particularly as the underside of the fuselage can flex, (I inserted a length of styrene runner, vertically as a 'pit prop', to ensure perfect alignment). The nose-gear doors were a little too long to fit the bay recess on my pre-production kit and needed fettling to fit correctly, also check the clearance between the nose leg and door's long location tab. I found it best to insert the nose leg before fitting the doors as per the instructions . Bear in mind I only had rudimentary draft instructions for the test build I had as they hadn't been finalized at that point (last January) so it was all a bit of trial and error. The jet pipes need a bit of care and attention to get right but as long as you use the template provided and check the part number sequence you'll be fine. Other than that I can't recall any big problems, everything fitted together as it should. 

 

Recommendations for better accuracy, quick and easy: make up the small missing main-gear leg separator tubes (I used styrene and brass rod) and remove the lower brace strut (on part G32) that was only fitted to aircraft in long term storage. Replace missing central windscreen wiper (I used a spare from the Flighpath set) and add wing-tip nav lights from clear runner styrene. I also added the upper fuselage and two lower (beneath the intakes) clear red anti-collision beacons using items from the CMK set. And if super picky, like me, add an anti-tail strike indicator bar beneath the tailcone on the small blister. 

 

One note: Don't sand the trailing edges of the elevons or outer wing to a sharp edge...they should be squared off, as per the kit!

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by general melchett

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks for the additional commentary @general melchett, its always appreciated.

I was only just thinking about the engine options provided within this kit and was wondering if you (or any of your Airfix associates) could kindly provide the missing instruction steps to build up the Series 201 engines. I suspect they are similar to the 301's however it would be nice to follow some nice well laid out drawings along the way to get these right. 

Cheers and thanks.. Dave 

[general melchett]

Dave, exactly the same as for the 301s. I don't have the parts to hand anymore but if I recall, just check the marks indented onto the jet pipe parts (. .. ... ....) to make sure you get the right sequence. The three 'petals' will only fit one way and remember, the outer pipes are canted outwards on either side. The 201s were a late addition so I assume that's why they don't appear in the instructions.

 

Melchie.

[Rabbit Leader]

5 minutes ago, general melchett said:

Dave, exactly the same as for the 301s

 

Thanks Andy. Unlike the excellent early issue Beaufort, we've not received our shipment Down Under as yet, so will keep this info handy for when I do get my hands on one. 

Cheers and many thanks.. Dave 

[avro683]

3 hours ago, general melchett said:

Dave, exactly the same as for the 301s. I don't have the parts to hand anymore but if I recall, just check the marks indented onto the jet pipe parts (. .. ... ....) to make sure you get the right sequence. The three 'petals' will only fit one way and remember, the outer pipes are canted outwards on either side. The 201s were a late addition so I assume that's why they don't appear in the instructions.

 

Melchie.

I was able to extensively peruse the new kit last night with @stever219 and we noticed that there was very obviously a sprue missing. We aren’t 100 certain but we think that it’s the Black Buck specific parts due for release in the not too distant future. Some of those aircraft were 201 powered; that may explain why the engine parts are in the kit but not covered on the instructions. Thanks for the correction, Adam.

Edited July 7, 2021 by avro683
Information received

[Adam Poultney]

1 minute ago, avro683 said:

We aren’t 100 certain but we think that it’s the Black Buck specific parts due for release in the not too distant future. Those aircraft were 201 powered; that may explain why the engine parts are in the kit but not covered on the instructions.

XL391, XM597, XM598, XM607 and XM612 were all 301 powered

[avro683]

Just now, Adam Poultney said:

XL391, XM597, XM598, XM607 and XM612 were all 301 powered

Thanks Adam. This really is a minefield.

[Rabbit Leader]

Begs the question, what would be the likely paint schemes for the 201 engine boxing? 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Adam Poultney]

1 hour ago, general melchett said:

 

It's been a while since I built it but I remember not being happy with the nose cone break line. As you now know, care is needed in eliminating the seam line and keeping the smooth contour of the nose (I used 'sprue goo' to fill/blend and a contour-gauge .............

Thanks for this! Very useful.

 

25 minutes ago, avro683 said:

Thanks Adam. This really is a minefield.

Yep really can be but it's easy to navigate once you know your way around. Any Vulcan B2 built before XM574 with the exception of XL391 was built with 200 series engines, 574 and later were all 301 powered and remained as such. XH557 and XJ784 were involved with 301 development so were refitted with those engines, XL384-390 were refitted with 301s when they were modified for Blue Steel.

2 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Begs the question, what would be the likely paint schemes for the 201 engine boxing? 
Cheers.. Dave 

Well given that they are the slightly later ones with square blisters around the edge that rules out any scheme before c.1962 with some remaining like that for a few years after, that is if the schemes are perfectly accurate to the plastic. It cannot be any Vulcan built up to XH556 due to the narrow intakes. 

 

I don't think it will be XH558, at least not in the VDF/VTTS scheme. This makes more sense to include in a K2/MRR box due to the legacy features of these variants in XH558. An earlier XH558 scheme would work though.

 

Personally I'd choose to do a three scheme box. If smooth 201 jetpipes couldn't be added I would just ignore this as to be fair most modellers won't notice and anyone who does probably has the skills to make them smooth.

I'd choose a white one, a 70s camo one (like the majority of surviving vulcans eg XJ824) and a wrap around one. 

For the white scheme, I'd like to see XL388 of 9 Sqn with the name "Mayflower III", or a very standard XJ serial one with no tail sqn markings (like in the photo on the inside cover of the 2nd edition of Craig Bulman's book that myself and @general melchettgo on about so much).

For a 70s camo scheme, well pretty much any one will do, just don't choose an MRR or a narrow intake one. 

Wrap around options are limited for 200 series engines, XH561 became a K2 shortly after being painted in wrap around, the other options are XL318 and XL359. I'd say XL318 as a survivor in that scheme is best as references for the airframe will be easy enough to get (though Hendon is very cramped around the Vulcan).

 

But who knows what Airfix will do.

[Jack Ruskin]

2 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

I don't think it will be XH558, at least not in the VDF/VTTS scheme. This makes more sense to include in a K2/MRR box due to the legacy features of these variants in XH558. An earlier XH558 scheme would work though.

 

But who knows what Airfix will do.

 

As there is a section of sprue missing / blanked off... i reckon a K.2 & MRR is indeed forthcoming.

 

see photo 7 here....  https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235095862-avro-vulcan-b2-a12011-172/#comments

 

[Dave Swindell]

5 hours ago, Jack Ruskin said:

As there is a section of sprue missing / blanked off... i reckon a K.2 & MRR is indeed forthcoming.

 

There is indeed a section of the sprue blanked off, but it's quite small. There's flashed over holes for the Black Buck pylons under the wings, so pylons, shrikes and an-alq pod would be a good guess for what's going in there.

There's no indication in the rear fuselage of a cut-out for a tanker hose reel, so that would require a new rear fuselage section, and there's no flashed over holes in the wing for the sampling pods so the MRR is unlikely as well

[cherry268]

10 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

here's no flashed over holes in the wing for the sampling pods so the MRR is unlikely as well

I would have thought the pods would use the same mounting points as the pylons.

[Adam Poultney]

1 hour ago, cherry268 said:

I would have thought the pods would use the same mounting points as the pylons.

If you look under the wings of XH558 you can see another set of blisters a little outboard of the Skybolt ones which were there to cover the attachment points

12 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

 

 

12 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

There's no indication in the rear fuselage of a cut-out for a tanker hose reel, so that would require a new rear fuselage section, and there's no flashed over holes in the wing for the sampling pods so the MRR is unlikely as well

They'll probably be including a new tail cone entirely for the K2, they had the air scoop on the side removed and the gap covered, it would be better to just add a new sprue than make an unnecessarily complex assembly

[Dave Swindell]

12 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

If you look under the wings of XH558 you can see another set of blisters a little outboard of the Skybolt ones which were there to cover the attachment points

Just beat me to it, the sampling pod pylons were slightly outboard and aft of the skybolt ones, and as you say, the mounting points were covered with a couple of blisters (smaller than the skybolt ones)  when the pylons weren't fitted There was also a 3rd smaller sampling pod and pylon just outboard of the pot main gear door.

 

15 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

They'll probably be including a new tail cone entirely for the K2, they had the air scoop on the side removed and the gap covered, it would be better to just add a new sprue than make an unnecessarily complex assembly

I was suggesting that there wasn't room in the empty space for a new back end and associated refuelling gear, as you say that's the logical way to mould it, but I don't think it's going to happen. Tankers and MRR are a bit esoteric whereas the Black Buck option appears a dead cert and the bits needed would fit that space nicely.  If I'm wrong, it's because there will be a whole new big tanker MRR sprue which will also include a full set of  bomb bay fuel tanks for the tanker and the anti radar Black Buck  missions. I'd buy one, but I think I'm being overly optimistic....

 

Talking of flashed over holes, what are the ones at mid chord in line with the inboard end of the ailerons for?

[Adam Poultney]

6 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

I was suggesting that there wasn't room in the empty space for a new back end and associated refuelling gear, as you say that's the logical way to mould it, but I don't think it's going to happen. Tankers and MRR are a bit esoteric whereas the Black Buck option appears a dead cert and the bits needed would fit that space nicely.  If I'm wrong, it's because there will be a whole new big tanker MRR sprue which will also include a full set of  bomb bay fuel tanks for the tanker and the anti radar Black Buck  missions. I'd buy one, but I think I'm being overly optimistic....

I think that it will be done on a new sprue, after all the Victor SR2 was covered, an equally unusual variant. 

Since XH558 was an MMR and a K2 at various points, and has numerous legacy features of these variants, it would make most sense to include XH558 in a K2/MRR box. It would also make sense, at least to me, to just include a few more decals and with relative ease do a box of XH558 from start to finish. First flight scheme right up to the last repaint.

9 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Talking of flashed over holes, what are the ones at mid chord in line with the inboard end of the ailerons for?

No idea

[Dave Swindell]

16 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Since XH558 was an MMR and a K2 at various points, and has numerous legacy features of these variants

If they were planning this during development I would have expected the base kit parts to have at least the sampling pod mounting fairings and flashed over holes for fitting them. The alternative is just a fudge with decals which they did with the old kit. 

Much as us enthusiasts would like further variants I think the only addition to the plastic we will see is Black Buck parts, the rest will be left to aftermarket.