1/72 - Dornier/Dassault-Breguet Alpha Jet family by Kovozávody Prostějov (KP) - released - Air Graphics sets

[alt-92]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:20 PM, ivand said:

Is it just me or does anyone else have the impression the parts seem to be carved out of solid soap (with corresponding detail)? 🤔

I mean, doesn't the moulding quality seem eerily reminiscent of their SF.260 of late?

KP/AZ do use different mould master techniques.

Either it's metal (Aluminium likely) as with the HQT moniker used on the 109E series , or resin moulds which tend to lose definition over time. 

[ivand]

13 hours ago, alt-92 said:

resin moulds which tend to lose definition over time. 

OK, but it's a bit soon for that... 😏

[Giorgio N]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:20 PM, ivand said:

Is it just me or does anyone else have the impression the parts seem to be carved out of solid soap (with corresponding detail)? 🤔

I mean, doesn't the moulding quality seem eerily reminiscent of their SF.260 of late?

 

Mould quality from the picture looks better than the SF.260. Still, some parts look like they come from an '80s kit, not one from 2021. I will wait for some good review before buying this one.

 

 

22 hours ago, alt-92 said:

KP/AZ do use different mould master techniques.

Either it's metal (Aluminium likely) as with the HQT moniker used on the 109E series , or resin moulds which tend to lose definition over time. 

 

Would be interesting to know how soon the resin moulds lose definition... in my SF.260 all parts had very rough surfaces, with plenty of scars and ill-defined details. This even if I bought the kit as soon as was announced. I know short run kits are short run kits, but the plastic quality of the Siai was something I could expect 15 years ago,

Fingers crossed for the Alpha Jet, I hope it is a HQ mould, or at least a better mould than the one used on other AZ kits. I'm still unimpressed because of the poor detail but I'd heppy enough to not have to deal with wheels where 2 spokes are visible and 3 are not or parts where details must be cleaned from blobs of plastic

[Dave Fleming]

49 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Would be interesting to know how soon the resin moulds lose definition... in my SF.260 all parts had very rough surfaces, with plenty of scars and ill-defined details. This even if I bought the kit as soon as was announced. I know short run kits are short run kits, but the plastic quality of the Siai was something I could expect 15 years ago,

Fingers crossed for the Alpha Jet, I hope it is a HQ mould, or at least a better mould than the one used on other AZ kits. I'm still unimpressed because of the poor detail but I'd heppy enough to not have to deal with wheels where 2 spokes are visible and 3 are not or parts where details must be cleaned from blobs of plastic

I had a similar experience with the D510 kit, added to which there were panel lines where the master maker had made a mistake and the correction is visible. Safe to say i wouldn't order this one sight unseen

[John Masters]

I'm looking froward to the Dolphin that is part of @Homebee.

 

On 9/25/2021 at 8:18 PM, Roman Schilhart said:

A totally mixed bag.

Indeed.  Their Mig-21 kits are rudimentary.  It would be nice if the box art and the kit inside satisfy equally!

[Piotr Mikolajski]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:58 AM, Giorgio N said:

Would be interesting to know how soon the resin moulds lose definition.

 

From various conversations with different companies it looks more or less like this:

• In the case of a pure resin mould, this is about 1000 injections, sometimes 1500 with a gradually decreasing quality.
• If it's a galvanised resin mould, it lasts about 5,000.

HQT is a slogan that means nothing, AZ Models moulds are one of these two options described above.

 

High quality products can be achieved with both types of moulds - the first one is used by Sword, among others, and the second one is used by Special Hobby in very many of their projects.

If the manufacturer has poorly prepared the project, from which the mould is made, the moulded parts will have poor detail quality.

[Homebee]

Test build pics here:

https://www.modelarovo.cz/dassault-dornier-alpha-jet-1-72-kp-kovozavody-prostejov/

 

Quote

English summary

One of the October novelties of the Kovozávody Prostějov company is the Alpha Jet jet training fighter. This elegant aircraft has gradually spread to many users around the world. From the modeling point of view in the 1/72 scale, this type was neglected for a relatively long time in the modeling „modern age“. Today, age-old „positive“ models from Airfix, Matchbox or Heller are available at times. There was also a model with already negative engraving from the Japanese Fujimi, but unfortunately it was out of scale in size and also the contour fidelity lagged much (see reviews on IPMS Deutchland and Britmodeller). So there was a little hole on the market… Now our new model from the „soft“ form, in a limited edition, is coming to the market. The kit is sprayed from a medium-gray, well-workable plastic with a fine negative engraving. The moldings contain basic parts for Alpha Jet versions A, E, MS.1 and MS.2, which will be gradually released in many boxed versions. Also in the frames we find four hangers, additional tanks and a suspended hull cannon. The kit is conceived according to today’s trends relatively simply, but it is not intended for beginning modellers. In a few photos, we bring you an orientation preview of the test construction, which is not entirely simple. Although the moldings are very nice and clean to look at, thanks to the technology, quite a lot of cleaning of the bearing surfaces and small parts is required. Proper cleaning really matters. In short, summed up, built… it is not a simple Alpha Jet, we will model it, we will not miss sealing and grinding, but the reward will be a nice and dimensionally accurate model.

 

 

 

 

 

 

V.P.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Homebee

[stevehnz]

I like the look of that from those shots. 

Steve.

[ivand]

The nose seems far too long and pointed to me. 🤔

 

Detail seems VERY soft... At least they are rather frank about the nature of their kit.

[Uncle Dick]

37 minutes ago, ivand said:

The nose seems far too long and pointed to me. 🤔

 

Detail seems VERY soft... At least they are rather frank about the nature of their kit.

Yes nose proportions in images do not look right - either distortion from camera lens (fisheye like effect/or image stretch in photo edit) or worse case nose really is Pinocchio!

 

[ivand]

29 minutes ago, Uncle Dick said:

distortion from camera lens (fisheye like effect/or image stretch in photo edit)

Yes, I wonder, as it seems rather more 'normal' in the sprue shots. 🤔

[RAGATIGER]

Hi there

 

After reading this tread I went to my stach to look for a started old Heller kit and an unstarted Airfix kit; to me it look like a clone of the Heller kit but there are some differences as on the Heller kit (that used to have decals that include French and German aircraft) there was 2 dfferent noses one pointed for the German and one more round blunt if you can say but no strakes for that French version

 

My Heller Alpha jet came in this box

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/heller-80399-patrouille-france--167958

And the Airfix was this box

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/usairfix-4012-alpha-jet--167978

 

 

In my case my plan is to do a Portugese AF sample

 

Regards

 

Armando

[Homebee]

Released 

- ref. KPM0264 - DDB Alpha Jet E - In French Service - https://www.mn-modelar.com/1-72-alpha-jet-e-in-french-services-902129761/

- ref. KPM0265 - DDB Alpha Jet A - Canadian Top Aces - https://www.mn-modelar.com/1-72-alpha-jet-a-canadian-top-aces-902129762/

- ref. KPM0266 - DDB Alpha Jet A - Bundesluftwaffe - https://www.mn-modelar.com/1-72-alpha-jet-a-bundesluftwaffe-902129763/

- ref. KPM0267 - DDB Alpha Jet A - QinetiQ - https://www.mn-modelar.com/1-72-alpha-jet-a-qinetiq-902129764/ & https://www.artscale.eu/172-alpha-jet-a-qinetiq-1

 

V.P.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Homebee

[stevehnz]

So, no Belgian aircraft? 

Steve.

[alt-92]

Not in this batch, the Belgian ones are KPM72268 . On the previous page there's 6 boxings in total mentioned.

[STROP]

Last weekend, I could buy the new  KP kit at the IPMS Belgium National Convention in Affligem for  some 15 Euro. 

For me , it is a reasonable kit with engraved panel lines, comparable with those on the latest Airfix Harrier kit.

It has the usual large sprue connections of KP kits, (which have to be removed , but this should not be a problem for the average modeller) ;  no connection pins either, but  the parts align well when dry fitted.

 

I compared the kit parts with the scaleable drawing  on Wikimedia https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dassault-Dornier_Alphajet.svg which I think is correct  and with the parts of the Heller / Revell kit  which I had in my stash.

That older kit (which is difficult to find anyway) has raised panel lines and landing lights in the wings, but is dimensionally  correct.  The foreward fuselage of the KP and Heller kits are very similar, but the tail part  of the KP kit is some 4 mm  shorter than the Heller and the drawing !  It is practically impossible to correct this, however I wonder if it will stand out, once the kit is built.  The wings are basically identical, there are differences between both kits for the fuel tanks and the cannon pod, but I haven’t verified these.  

The Heller kit has a complicated split up for the underside and engine outlets with 3 parts, the KP solution is much easier to build.  

 

The KP kit contains nose cones for the 3 versions  A, E and MS,  and the nose streaks of the E versions moulded with the fuselage sides.  Unfortunately, these nose streaks are too short for the E versions,  which explains why the nose looks too long in the test build, and they are absent on the A version. They should be removed in both cases , and replaced by some plasticard streaks of the right size for the E versions.

 

The KP kit has only a  basic representation of the Sentrel ejection seats of the German / Portuguese planes, which need improvement (or should be replaced by Pavla resin seats).  The old Heller has even coarser representations of Martin Baker  seats (for the E version) but here one can find good resin MB Mk10 seats made by PJ Production.

 

If you can live with the “short” tail,  I think the KP kit is a good basis for a decent Alpha jet in 1/72 , a modeler with some experience  can easily make the other desired corrections / improvements.

 

KP  intends to bring out the kit with other decals (also Belgians) somewhere in december 2021.   

[Dave Fleming]

On 07/10/2021 at 08:36, Homebee said:

Test build pics here:

https://www.modelarovo.cz/dassault-dornier-alpha-jet-1-72-kp-kovozavody-prostejov/

 

 

Looks like they have got the dog tooth length right, but the whole thing looks a bit chunky . When you look at the quality of their Bf109s, they seem to have made a major step backwards. I might get the Qinetiq boxing for the decals

[Dave Fleming]

10 minutes ago, STROP said:

The wings are basically identical,

 

I was typing when you posted - are the leading edge extensions (Dog-teeth) the same length? I have an early Heller kit, where they are the shorter length and looking at photos of recent issues of the Heller kit, they seem the same. The KP kit ones looked longer (Greater space between the edge of the extension and the alieron)

Heller

 

[STROP]

No, the dog- teeth position of the Heller complies with the drawing, on the KP kit is 4mm larger towards the fuselage. Should be /  can be correcter.  On the other hand the Heller wing is 2.2 mm thick, which is too thin compared with the dwg , the KP wing is 2.6 mm thick, that is more realistic.

 

Btw I bought the German version and it has a rather complete decals sheet for 3 versions.

 

 

[Dave Fleming]

21 hours ago, STROP said:

No, the dog- teeth position of the Heller complies with the drawing, on the KP kit is 4mm larger towards the fuselage. Should be /  can be correcter.  On the other hand the Heller wing is 2.2 mm thick, which is too thin compared with the dwg , the KP wing is 2.6 mm thick, that is more realistic.

 

I think the drawing is wrong - the prototypes had smaller dog tooth extensions than the production aircraft - Heller was the prototype, Airfix got it right on their kit

 

You can see here how much further inboard the extension went than in the drawing

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/UK-Air-Force/Dassault-Dornier-Alpha-Jet-A/1375731/L

[STROP]

It does not help very much if the information one can find  is wrong too.  But I have the Airfix  one built  years ago , and I will dig it out of my collection  and make the comparison.  

What about the tail length ?

[STROP]

I found 3 models of the Alpha Jet in my collection, which I have built years ago. Man, they look awful, the varnish I used  has  yellowed considerably.  Two of them are  the  Heller/ Revell kit  with the short dog-tooth.  The third one is the Airfix one,  but I see no difference in the  dog-tooth with the other one, and I see no self-made correction on the wing.

 

But I found the following information by comparison of the photos , instructions , etc.

 

1.  Heller produced around 1980  a kit  with 4 sprues , based on the prototype. It can be identified  by  the complicated split up at the exhausts,  the upper and lower parts of the wings have the same size  and there are no pilots in the kit.  The kit has raised panel lines, but no indication of the air brakes. It has been marketed in several boxes , with a GERMAN  Alpha Jet as illustration.  This kit has also be marketed by Revell  as  Alpha Jet A with a length of  18,1 cm and GERMAN markings , and as Alpha Jet E with a length of  16,7 cm  with FRENCH markings.

 

2. Airfix produced about the same time a kit with 3 sprues.  It can be identified by the short exhaust pipes , it has a dissimilar split of upper and lower parts of the wings, and  there are pilots in the kit. 

It has been marketed by Airfix  originally  with a GERMAN Alpha Jet on the box and decals for a German and the Belgian AT-02.  It has been re-issued in 2008 with a BRITISH  Alpha Jet on the box and decals for a Qinetic  A and a Belgian E, code  AT-03.   

This kit has also be marketed by Heller with the same  number  as the other one, but with FRENCH  markings  (Patrouille de France). The instructions in these boxes are the same as for the Airfix kit.

 

3. Scale Aviation Modeller  December 2009  published  a Modellers Profile (No 29)  of the Alpha Jet, with 1/72nd scale drawings  made by  Bradic Srecko,  which are clearly  the references  KP  used for its kit, as  the kit parts  fit  perfectly  the drawings.  The drawings show the wing dog tooth  of the production planes. Unfortunately, Bradic made an error in the length of the planes , measured on the drawing as 16,1 cm for the E , which corresponds to 11,59 m in reality, while on the profile data sheet 12,28 m is given.  The error lays entirely at the rear part, aft of the exhausts. 

 

The older Airfix / Heller / Revell  kits  are almost impossible to find now.  The  alternative is now the KP kit  with  it  (4 mm? ) too short tail.  

[Hoops]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:37 PM, STROP said:

No, the dog- teeth position of the Heller complies with the drawing, on the KP kit is 4mm larger towards the fuselage. Should be /  can be correcter.  On the other hand the Heller wing is 2.2 mm thick, which is too thin compared with the dwg , the KP wing is 2.6 mm thick, that is more realistic.

 

Btw I bought the German version and it has a rather complete decals sheet for 3 versions.

 

 

 

Would you be able to post a picture of the decal sheet? I'm want to build a Norm 83 Luftwaffe version and haven't seen any images of the decals included in the kit yet.

 

Thanks!

 

Hoops

[David Koktavý]

Despite not well experienced with those real - scale subjects comparisons I made a very rough picture. It seems that there is not any major issue with lenght. Also the nose seems to be almost OK?. The only point I see is that the root of the rudder is a bit longer. But considering lens perspective of the photos, I am afraid to express any definitive statement.

 

What was not mentioned there is the status of Fujimy kit. Unfortunatelly I don´t have it in my stash, but as I remember some old discussion there are some shape issues, but beyond KP it is the only kit with negative engraved panel lines.

[RaceAddict]

I would love to get my hands on that Top Aces (their head office is here in Montreal, I drove past it just this afternoon) version... wonder if I can find it anywhere in North America. 🤔

Edited November 7, 2021 by RaceAddict