Allergic to acrylic paints. Please help!

[Major Flannel]

I never use an airbrush ( my major detour is wooden sailing boats in scale, galleys and the like). Some things you will never need working with wood strip: spot welding gear and an airbrush. : D

 

I am thinking of perhaps a younger inexperienced newcomer who is confronted by the overwhelmingly aggressive marketed acrylics range and fails in painting his models because they simply do not 'stick'. Frame it like such.

 

 

[-Ian-]

For brush painting my preference is enamel too, ideally antique Humbrol Authentics colours from the 70s and 80s (I've built up quite a collection from ebay the past 5 years or so), of the modern options Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats range is the one I'm most impressed with.

 

 

For airbrushing however enamel comes with a huge disadvantage, the smell of both the paint and the thinner. Depending on the brand acrylics are either completely odourless or only have a slight smell, the enamel pong isn't too bad when brush painting but can be overpowering when sprayed.

Edited June 29, 2021 by -Ian-

[Graham Boak]

The main smell problem with enamels is less the paint than the thinners - I now use Colourcoats own naptha-based thinners which is much better.

[Matthew1974]

I grew up using enamels, mainly Testors, to build with.  After the mandatory break from modeling in high school through college for sports, girls, studying, work, girls, beer, and girls, I came back to the hobby and started using Gunze Aqueous and loved the paint.  Sadly it stopped being imported to the US and I switched to Humbrol enamel and got on great with it for years.  I then decided to give Vallejo Air a try, mainly for their range.  My first couple of attempts were disasters-paint peeling, furiously bubbling over in the cup, orange peel...  I gradually got used to the stuff by not thinking about it in the end.  I had convinced myself there was some voodoo involved in getting this paint to work and I would never get it.  The one thing I pay attention to is cure time, not dry time, for both the primer and paint.  In the American southeast where I live this can take a few days.  Once it does cure it’s pretty durable.  I admit though I completely understand why some dislike it.

[Troy Smith]

9 hours ago, Major Flannel said:

What am I doing so badly wrong?

Expecting them to be like enamels.   

 

As has been pointed out, they are fragile.   

 

Personally I find they work.  I have happily brushed Vallejo Model Color onto bare plastic,  and once Kleered it's pretty tough. 

Tips, use a flat brush,  add paint to a pallete, and then thin with a mix of 95% De-ionised water/5% flow improver, I use a mini syringe of the mix, and enough to make the paint like milk and brush away.

Same technique for Tamiya, you may need a little more flow improver.  I have used Tamiya as a primer for Xtracrylix, which is quite rubbery.

 

But, i'm also used to acrylics, I use them round the house for most decorating jobs,  both paint and varnish.   

 

@PlaStix brush paint with acrylics,  and was asked about this, and did this video, and his models look great.

 

Which is where I got my method from.   

 

@tonyot mostly brush paints with acrylics as well.  

 

But, if you don't like them, and don't get on with them, don't use them.   

 

HTH

 

[Troy Smith]

7 hours ago, Major Flannel said:

how would one best utilise a, say, a Tamiya acrylic paint on a, say, single 72nd scale Avro Vulcan wing, with a good sized chisel brush, assuming one Halford's Grey primed it aforehand? 

It needs to adhere reasonably well and can accept further acrylics over the top of it. 

See the post above

7 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

I've heard people say they managed to brush paint Tamiya acrylics by adding a touch of dishwashing liquid to the water used to thin the paint with. It might be worth using a retarder too, as it starts to dry really quickly. I might do some experiments tonight using the various potions to hand.

Hi Mark,

 

as i say above, just de-ionised water with a little flow improver,  and a flat brush,  you can do the 2nd coat as soon as the first one is touch dry, and as you say, it dries fast.  if it's the right consistency, no brush marks.  Again, see Plastix video.   

Actually with acrylics you want to recoats as soon as possible, as then the next layer bonds with the previous one.  

 

back to DIY,  I use paint thinned with a little tap water,  like milk consistency,  and recoat as soon as touch dry, very gentle rub down with a work sponge sanding block between coats, a wipe with damp microfibre, and next coat on,   and aim for say 5 or 6 layers, more for something getting harder use,  more.  I did a stair hand rail like this, which had maybe 10 or 12 coats, and that gets used all the time and is fine,  by doing the multiple coats like this you in the end basically get one thick tough coat of acrylic. which is also a bit flexible, so is  hard to chip or scratch.

Does take time,  but then it lasts.   This is for satin finish, a high gloss is harder,  but that's not my requirement.

 

I'm digressing, but a while back a painter was doing my neighbours window and he thought my wooden window frames were plastic as they were so white and neat.   Only problem I have is a couple of window sills that get a lot of direct sun and usually require a rub down and touching up in the autumn....

 

One last DIY tip,  if you have some emulsion in a specific colour, and you want to use it on woodwork, or a high wear area, try adding in some acrylic varnish,  basically turns it into acrylic paint, which can be useful if you want the colour match,  or only a little, so get a little emulsion tester pot as there tens to be a wider range of colous. 

 

I know, I know....but this is area about paint so it's not that off topic.   

 

[SleeperService]

Acrylics are the reason I got out of vehicle refinishing. It is very difficult to get a consistent quality finish with them and auto paints are better than the stuff sold to model-makers. They shrink as they dry so sharp corners leave a way to peel the paint away, the paint layer is very thin and needs multiple coats if it's going to be handled which brings more issues.

That said for small areas requiring multiple colours that will be protected such as cockpits mentioned above and wheel wells they can be very useful. PlaStix has a very good technique which will help a lot. If using tiny amounts for detail like switches and such then get artist acrylics. Much better coverage, a tube will last a lifetime, quality much better with finer dyes.

For large areas then enamel is far superior, a single mist coat and then a wet one will cover most of the time without smothering detail. Old Humbrol is very good but Compucolour is getting better every day. They are building a good reputation for accuracy of colour too. Naptha based thinner is much less smelly than white spirit, however you should realise the surface will remain wet for a while so, once the paint is on, ensure it is protected from dust while it hardens.

Not matter what paint you use practice with it will improve results, take your time, if the finish looks bad let it dry thoroughly before trying to repair it. I always wear disposable nitrile gloves when painting, some have 'rusty fingers' leaving residue on a surface that loiters, grease and sweat will do the same. Very annoying until you twig the root cause is your freshly washed hands.

If in the UK then primer for anything is Halfords rattle cans. Pity they don't do a pink for light green or yellow.... 

[Major Flannel]

An artist's cheapo acrylic paint was used yesterday for the small green band on a tricolour of an Italian Nieuport. Knock me out if it was actually far more durable than expected. Contrast with said AK orange that scrapes away far too absurdly easily.

There's room for a closer look now. 

 

Regards to all that replied so far.

[lasermonkey]

Sorry for the delay, but I have a got a bit further with the Tamiya brushing experiments. I tried both the Ultimate Airbrush Thinners and plain water to thin the paint with and found that the paint went on better with the Ultimate stuff. For some reason, I found that subsequent coats were lifting previous coats with water, though in a somewhat random fashion.

 

I went with the several thin coats are better than one thick coat theory and it seemed to work well, provided the Slo Dry retarder was used. I think this is absolutely essential for brushing and to be honest, I wouldn’t attempt to spray *any* acrylic without it either.

 

Next job is to go at it with some Tamiya masking tape to see whether I can get any paint to lift. Obviously, I’d rather it didn’t, but if it holds, that’ll be very good news indeed.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, lasermonkey said:

I think this is absolutely essential for brushing

Hmm, I brush Tamiya with water AND a little flow improver, with no problem, but, I use a flat brush, as per the video by @PlaStix  I think this is the crucial bit,  a normal brush won't work as well, and that maybe the issue with lifting.  It cover really fast and gives a thin coat really easily. 

 

I'm using a couple of really basic ones i got from an art shop in town, which cost a quid each.

 

FWIW, last night I was brushing on Tamiya, and then when touch dry, using a wash of oil paints thinned with lighter fuel, with no problem. 

the base coats on all these road and wall parts is brushed Tamiya

50620960 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the wall bit on right is just Tamiya, needs another coat, the left is with multiple oil washes.

The road was Tamiya medium grey, and then has had multiple dry brush with Tamiya and lots of oil wash. And some of the dry brush was pretty brutal scrubbing.  

 

I do find the acrylic clog the brushes fast, and do need to use the Artist Brush cleaner soap frequently to restore them, but that's not hard.

 

HTH

[Giorgio N]

Why do people use acrylics ? Because they work ! End of the story !

Granted, as with every product in our hobby some modellers find this easier while others struggle, but had modellers not been successful with these paints I can guarantee you that companies would have stopped producing them many years ago. What happened was the opposite, more and more modellers have found ways to get excellent results with acrylics, exploiting their strengths while mitigating their weaknesses... that is exactly what every modeller have to do with whatever kind of paint they are using.

You can't find a way to get acrylics work for you ? Happens, we all have something we can't get to work while others do it easily. Fortunately there are plenty other products on the market, be it enamel, lacquers or whatever, However don't forget that if you can't find that way, this doesn't mean that others will not find it, they have and are succesful with it.

 

Brush painting Tamiya paints: the very best way I found is to mix them with good old J&J Klear and a drop of flow improver. This way the paint covers a little less but with 2-3 coats you'll get a very smooth and tough finish, with no brush marks. Unfortunately proper Klear has not been available for ages

 

[lasermonkey]

52 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Why do people use acrylics ? Because they work ! End of the story !

 

 

With respect, that's a bit of a stretch! If they "just worked", we wouldn't keep having threads like this one.

 

Anyway, back to my Tamiya experiments. I brush-painted some 1/72 Mosquito fuselage halves (one thinned with water, one thinned with Ultimate Airbrush thinners, both with a drop or two of Liquitex Slo-Dry). I got better results with the Ultimate thinners. The finish was smoother and didn't lift any previous coats. Overall, I just thought it was better. After it had dried, I went at it with some Tamiya masking tape, fresh off the roll. I couldn't get it to lift no matter how viciously I pulled the tape up (Grrrr!) and believe me, I tried.

 

I would say it's worth getting a few Tamiya or Gunze Aqueous paints to try out, unless you're happy sticking with enamels.