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Trumpeter 1/200 Bismarck


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18 hours ago, Gisbod said:

MRP 364

Hi Guy,

 

That looks quite light, but perhaps it would work as a filter or highlight? That said I've seen a highlighter-bright fuchsia used for a mountbatten pink and liked it...had the opposite than intended effect but really caught the eye!

 

Bissy's war diary:

https://www.kbismarck.com/drawings.html bottom of that page, and on page 160 (or search 'yellow') is not the official record at that point, but was amended from eyewitness statements, as this was lost with the ship. I have also seen eyewitness statements saying they were red, grey and/or dark grey when sunk which appear to have been disregarded in the above. However, combined with Britsh intel I think it is convincing that they should be yellow on the main turret tops, although you could argue UK intel knew yellow was the scheme of choice instead of having seen this and reported back, so not definitive to me. You could do a scene where they are painting the turret tops and cover all bases?

 

The hood association's brilliant website has a lot of info on the wreck images and notes how they have been brightened or otherwise edited to bring out detail: http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/2001expedition/bismarck/encrypt.html in addition to the bright lights under which they were collected.

 

Sorry Guy for duplication from my msg  but throwing my two cents in here.

 

 

David

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On 7/6/2021 at 3:47 PM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Please permit me to repost the same three images here as before, albeit in a different order:

 

 

As you know I've been studying photos for a while now and they can be very misleading. The very light tone that you're looking for and seeing on the wreck is absolutely and completely undoubtedly the exact same paint photographed twice during and after the Battle of Denmark Strait. These two photographs both show a clear white bow wave but the superstructure in both images looks like a medium-tone grey and the hull very dark grey. If you had only these two photographs and nothing else, there is absolutely no way on this Earth you'd choose an extremely pale grey as seen under powerful lamps of a deep-sea submersible.

 

bismarck-down-at-bows.jpg

bundesarchiv_bild_146-1984-055-13_schlac

 

 

As if to drive home the point a little better, this photograph of Bismarck with the light source low of the port beam shows off the chameleon effect of paint perfectly in the one photograph, with the up-sun, cross-sun and down-sun facets of the angled forward superstructure looking drastically different tones. The visual effect of the two search light cover domes is perhaps even more pronounced.

 

 

nzc40it4ug851.jpg

 

 

The usual Your Model, Your Rules applies of course, but if you choose a grey too light because you're defacto setting aside some evidence in favour of other evidence you prefer the look of, then you also need to control the light under which you observe the model or it's going to look wrong most of the time. If the model is in a dimly lit room without good windows etc and you'll only view it under some artificial light that could be appropriate. If you have a big glass gable end living room and the Bismarck will have pride of place, it's going to look white on a bright day and it'll never look like the photographs at Denmark Strait. If you use the accepted colours, it'll look right for the sunlight under which you look at it whatever the weather.

 


Thanks Jamie,

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies

 

Yep, I know you’re right, but I made my 1/700 PoW the ‘correct‘ colour and always thought it looked too dark (as a model - if it was scaled up it would be different). Maybe RAL 7038 which is a compromise between the two? But as David mentions I’ll probably add some lo & hi lights to whichever I decide upon. However, I do value your advice and will experiment before I commit! As you say, colours look stark on a bright white paper background.

 

I wonder if anyone would post images of their Kriegsmarine ships in similar colours? Have you got a Bismarck in your collection Jamie? It would be very interesting to see how they look on a model.

 

Regarding sunlight/ shadow effects, this photo which I posted earlier appears to have been taken on an overcast day…

 

 

CED8-FED0-6-EFC-4-E4-E-A20-E-C5-D94-A46-
 

 

Anyway, long way down the line yet. It’s still in the German postal system!

 

 

Guy

 

 

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21 hours ago, Adm Lord De Univers said:

Hi Guy,

 

That looks quite light, but perhaps it would work as a filter or highlight? That said I've seen a highlighter-bright fuchsia used for a mountbatten pink and liked it...had the opposite than intended effect but really caught the eye!

 

Bissy's war diary:

https://www.kbismarck.com/drawings.html bottom of that page, and on page 160 (or search 'yellow') is not the official record at that point, but was amended from eyewitness statements, as this was lost with the ship. I have also seen eyewitness statements saying they were red, grey and/or dark grey when sunk which appear to have been disregarded in the above. However, combined with Britsh intel I think it is convincing that they should be yellow on the main turret tops, although you could argue UK intel knew yellow was the scheme of choice instead of having seen this and reported back, so not definitive to me. You could do a scene where they are painting the turret tops and cover all bases?

 

The hood association's brilliant website has a lot of info on the wreck images and notes how they have been brightened or otherwise edited to bring out detail: http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/2001expedition/bismarck/encrypt.html in addition to the bright lights under which they were collected.

 

Sorry Guy for duplication from my msg  but throwing my two cents in here.

 

 

David


Thanks David, 

 

The Hood website is excellent isn’t it? 
 

As regards turret tops, I’m leaning away from the ‘final encounter’ and more towards the Korsfjord photo version.

 

 

7590280-D-0-C3-F-4536-B52-C-A9-B7789687-

 

 

It’s stated that she would have had the dark grey turret tops at this time, but I can’t see a hint of that in the photo or on the 15cm guns. (I know it’s colourised). I realise you can’t really see the flat tops but is there any definitive information as to that anywhere? 


 

Guy

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Ps 

 

If I were to copy that image, It looks to me like:

 

Radar compartments(?) ie not just the aerial but the operating cabin(?) (can you tell I’m not a naval man?!) Dark grey - not black? That said the rear one seems to have light grey ‘arms’? But the forward two look to have dark arms?

 

The mast top is grey (seems black on later images?)

 

The rounded domes by the bridge - dark grey

 

Two tone darker grey main armament barrels

 

Silver funnel top

 

Guy

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Gidday Guy, I did a Revell Bismarck in 1/570 many years ago.

Bismarck 1941 jm13

     The model was built OOB and the colours are Humbrol enamels brushed on. The stripes weren't painted on the upperworks because I didn't think I could do it neatly. The main hull colour and upperworks colour are Hu27 I think, the bow and stern possibly Hu79. There are a number of errors compared with the photo above, in Norway - the main hull and upperworks the same shade of grey, the funnel cap is black (weren't they all, I used to think), turret Anton still has it's rangefinder etc. This was waaay before I started modifying builds.

     Although the white background can affect the tone of the colours in the photo I've found, it doesn't seem to have made much difference on this occasion, the greys in the photo match closely with those on the model. This model is quite crude compared to yours and others, but I've posted it here as you've been wondering about scale effect on colours, and I thought this might help give an idea what the finished model might look like, colour wise. Mind you, I don't trust Humbrol colour shades anymore, but they weren't bad back then. HTH. Regards, Jeff.

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Method to improve the gluing of a wooden deck:

 

How do you glue a wooden deck to a plastic deck without the whole thing warping or coming apart?


The trick is very simple and takes little time.

 

Une fois le pont bois en place, on ajoute de la cyano par en dessous par les trous dans le pont plastique.

 

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=315058

 

mws710.jpg

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Thanks Jeff!

 

Thats interesting, that does look quite dark. It’s a nice model - not at all crude! I’m the same re Baltic stripes on the superstructure- don’t think I could face that!  
 

Any more Bismarcks out there?

 

Thanks Pascal, that’s super helpful. I’ve only used the ready stick on decks before so I want to make sure I know what I’m doing. The Scaledecks deck is pretty expensive - I’d like not to have to buy another one!

 

re turret tops I’ve been studying reconnaissance photos - I sent over a spitfire at dawn 😄 (I feel like the squadron intelligence officer) but inconclusive results so far.. anyone have better eyes than me?

 

Guy

 

 

3252654-C-A031-4-EEF-A5-C7-D51-A27-ACD4-

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Gisbod said:

anyone have better eyes than me?

If you look carefully you'll notice that one of the ship's boats is missing a life-ring on it's roof. 😁 Regards, Jeff

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3 hours ago, Gisbod said:

I can’t see a hint of that in the photo or on the 15cm guns. (I know it’s colourised).

If you look real close at bruno and caesar turrets' barrels these are painted dark grey where they overlap the roof (flat top part, not vertical nor angled sides) of the turrets underneath. There is a photo of this somewhere - maybe the anatomy book, that shows this darker colour on the roofs and from recollection it's quite scratched up and shows a lighter grey underneath.

 

I think I can also see darker turret tops on the above photo when zoomed in, but might be a trick of me eyes/mind.

 

David

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Cette photo du 21 mai est très intéressante sur le dessus des tourelles. On peut également voir que le camouflage sur la coque a été considérablement réduit, je pense qu'il s'agit d'une erreur dans le texte, il semblerait que le dessus de la tourelle Dora "D" soit peint en gris foncé.

Confusions about this multitude of camouflages persist through the decades! They were very strong. It still works today! : 

 

Capture d'écran-2020-04-08-16-28-33-491.png

 

 

 

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Thanks David,

 

 

44 minutes ago, Iceman 29 said:

Cette photo du 21 mai est très intéressante sur le dessus des tourelles. On peut également voir que le camouflage sur la coque a été considérablement réduit, je pense qu'il s'agit d'une erreur dans le texte, il semblerait que le dessus de la tourelle Dora "D" soit peint en gris foncé.

Confusions about this multitude of camouflages persist through the decades! They were very strong. It still works today! : 

 

Capture d'écran-2020-04-08-16-28-33-491.png

 

 

 


 

Boom! There you go Pascal, marvellous 😊

 

Not much doubt there and will add a little interest to have an odd turret. Well done 👌

 

Your reconnaissance pilot was a lot braver than mine 😆

 

The forecast delivery date was 24th July. I checked last night and it said received in the German customs office. What a surprise then to find this on my doorstep this afternoon! 
 

 

B4085-B30-C175-4909-BC7-F-3-A8610498865.

 

 

The smaller box is from Scaledecks.

 

Unboxing pictures later!

 

Excited Guy

 

 

Ps No customs charges! 
 

Result 🤗

Edited by Gisbod
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Ps just realised that image is post painting over of the Baltic Hull stripes (which still show through quite markedly, and ties in with the wreck photos). Swastikas look over painted there too. I still want to do the one with stripes, which I guess rules out the all grey Caesar turret top too.

 

Guy

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11 minutes ago, Gisbod said:

No I haven’t Sam?

 

Where’s that listed anywhere? 
 

Guy

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1472828887/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_AFAC2MRRPVV2VCQZ3MF2

 

The newer red cover ones have a bunch of 3d views as is all the rage now, it's very good in my opinion and well worth the £25, 

 

If you don't want to use amazon I think smiths can get it and if not Waterstones though the latter will be pricey 

 

Reason I mention it is that it has the various colour schemes she wore, I've not checked them against photographs, but in my opinion as her make up changed almost from day to day during her one sortie that you can legitimatly argue just about any scheme or mix thereof could be argued as correct, plus unless photos can be pinpointed to an exact time they can themselves be misleading, 

 

Personally I'd say candy stripes would be interesting 😉

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lovely build

 

i moved mine the other day as it was being moved into a new display cabinet, a little bit of damage, oh and the amount of dust on her, is going to take a while to clean up

IMG_0106.thumb.JPG.fa092df545442ef4e3dc5

IMG_0098.thumb.JPG.13a450e225ce6c9f26b4b

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2 hours ago, Kevin Aris said:

lovely build


 

All my builds are lovely Kevin, but unfortunately, I have to start them at some point 😆

 

What colours did you use?

 

Guy

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So, I’ve finally got to opening the box!
 

 

I’m sure the kit has been reviewed to death, but just my initial thoughts. The Detail set didn’t arrive yesterday, but hopefully today, unless it got caught up in the Customs net 🥴

 

I sneaked the box in past the wife, I don’t think she’s noticed…

 

 

6-E607-FB5-2-B04-4-D70-8489-198179-A84-F

 

 


Ooh, what’s not to like? 🥰
 

 

 

16-C736-A0-F43-C-4-FED-993-F-611-DFE86-E
 

 

 


Crikey, she’s a beast, if you look closely you can just make out the 1/700 Bismarck looking like a small tender alongside.

 

 

 

 

F7032-B93-61-CB-41-C7-AC91-DC461-BF15-F4

 


 

I did read somewhere that someone had issues with the paint sticking to the plastic, so just to be sure, I gave her a bath…

 

 

 

65-A0-B54-D-964-F-4886-A797-56623-F96-A0

 


 

I got a bit carried away and re-enacted the whole Denmark Straits encounter and her subsequent sinking. It actually took some time to wash and dry all 1700+ parts.

 

My first impression was actually, really good. Pleasantly surprised. I was expecting the surface detail to be very soft, but to my eye, it looks fairly crisp and neatly done. I was thinking I would replace all the portholes, vents, doors etc with the PE, but now I’m not so sure. Would I really be adding that much once I’d hacked away at the plastic. I might regret it half way through gouging plastic with a chisel. Part of that is me being a lazy modeller, but would I actually improve what’s there? Hmmm.

 

 

B936-D25-A-BBE3-46-E4-9328-EA47-AAAA6-DC

 

 

 

F3759-D0-C-B786-4-A58-AB36-8-AA5-C2-DB82

 

 


CCEB34-FE-3281-40-D6-B068-83510-A52-BAEC

 

 

 

 

A Master painter (not me obviously) could make that look very nice.

 

 

 

27-AAACF9-D7-D6-4-F75-B761-5-A73-E3-E233

 

 

 

 

Even obvious candidates for PE, like the catapults I’m not so sure about, in this larger scale the kit ones look good.

 

 

 

 

514-E1-C3-F-D28-E-477-B-BCBE-A69-F5-C279

 

 

 

The Arados look super too. Nice fine detail. The panel lines are over scale, but I think that’s acceptable in such a small rendition. The only drawback is no cockpit, but the kit does supply nice PE canopies which I’d much prefer to attempts at clear plastic ones, which don’t really work in such small scales in my opinion. Is there a cockpit set out there as aftermarket? (Unless the detail set has them? Unlikely I think. The big disappointment is that the decals supplied only include crosses and no unit markings. Is there somewhere I can get a proper decal sheet for these?


 

 

4577-E1-BC-A3-F8-48-E8-B2-E3-A9-E9009689
 

 

 

She just about fits on my paint station…

 

 

 

18-B0963-F-3416-4139-BA41-679-EFCFCF3-A9

 

 

 

So in summary, my expectations have been pleasantly exceeded. I can’t state an opinion as to fit, but the deck to hull mating looks spot on which is a good start.

 

 

Scaledecks

 

One word… Wow! The pictures don’t do this justice. It’s stunning. Translucently thin. Again, I haven’t tried the fit yet, and as stated previously, I have read of fit issues, but I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. The Swastikas are beautifully printed. I think the whole thing is inkjet printed so it will need to be sealed. My only gripe is mine came with quite a few marks from something pressing into the ridiculously thin wood. I have emailed pictures back to Scaledecks. I’m not sure if they’ll send me a new one? Maybe that’s expecting too much but £100 is a lot to spend if it’s not perfect. Not a game changer, but a little disappointing.


 

 

 

D863-DEF6-5981-40-A2-9262-DEBA3-EB71-B58

 


 

CA7-E8-A47-121-C-4003-9490-3588-C9-E23-D

 


DAA5-B931-051-E-4823-8515-790515-A59-EEB

 

 


63-F44-CD0-FA4-B-4-AF1-844-E-D6-D8185-D0

 

 


That’s the good, this is the not so good. There are 5 or 6 marks like these. Am I whinging unnecessarily?

 

 

 

B5-E575-AB-43-AC-4-A19-9-FA0-1-BF3-EAFB1

 

 

 

DF298-C77-671-E-46-F1-9149-0-ED8-C292-B0

 


 

 

Anyway, I think that sums up the unboxing process. I had been building a little filler kit whilst waiting for this to arrive and just finished in time. Airfix  1/72. Nice little kit. I hope you don’t mind me posting in the ships section!

 

 

 

0989-E795-E34-F-44-D4-9-A3-D-66-FCDCF91-
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the ongoing interest. The useful, informative replies have been a great help already.

 

 

 

 

Guy

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  • Gisbod changed the title to Trumpeter 1/200 Bismarck *Unboxing!

Wow, a massive and interesting set of parts ............. or is it interesting and massive! Looks like you have your work cut out Guy. On the deck marks, I don't think you whinging unnecessarily, but I wonder whether you would get them replaced? You could probably sort it with a bit of subtle weathering. 

 

I do love that little Gladiator!

 

Terry

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This piece is not used.

 

DF298-C77-671-E-46-F1-9149-0-ED8-C292-B0

 

"Is there a cockpit set out there as aftermarket? (Unless the detail set has them? Unlikely I think. The big disappointment is that the decals supplied only include crosses and no unit markings. Is there somewhere I can get a proper decal sheet for these?"

 

Additionnel decals is fitted in the MK1 design kit DeLux also, like draft scales.

 

Screenshot-2021-07-09-12-21-23-548.jpg

 

MK1 Design is smart ! 🙄

 

There is some additional PE kit for Arado in the MK1 Design kit delux. MD20002, this complete pack DeLux include the wooden deck MK1 Design and some additionnal PE dor the Arado and the deck (MD20003) : https://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-ships-boats-for-ship-1:200-mk1-design-md-20003:

 

So I sold the wooden deck MK1 alone later.

 

To summarize, there are 2 MK1 kits:

MD20002: Complete kit with the wooden deck - 1/200 Bismarck Deluxe Super Detail Set for Trumpeter kit (incl. Wood Deck, Barrels, PEs..)

MD20003: only 1/200 German Battleship Bismarck Wooden Deck Set (Value Pack) for Trumpeter kit

 

It is better to take the MD20002 but it's expensive and you have to sold the deck..

 

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-ships-boats-for-ship-1:200-mk1-design-md-20003

 

https://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-ships-boats-for-ship-1:200-mk1-design-md-20002?zenid=e4bd080e47c15ec45621d3f83c466af4

 

Additional Arado PE kit MK1 included in MD20002 and MD20003:

Screenshot-2021-07-09-12-14-55-624.jpg

 

There one also at White Ensign Models but not painted:

 

https://www.whiteensignmodels.com/p/WEM+1200+Bismarck+Aircraft+Handling+Gear+PE+2013/19782/#.YOgeUxMzaAQ

 

Screenshot-2021-07-09-12-18-10-204.jpg

MK1 :

 

 

Screenshot-2020-04-06-21-56-37-667.png

 

 

Screenshot-2020-04-06-21-58-37-267.png

 

Screenshot-2020-04-06-21-59-37-987.png

 

Screenshot-2020-04-07-19-00-28-685.png

 

Screenshot-2020-04-12-22-22-13-253.jpg

 

Screenshot-2020-05-14-12-37-17-015.jpg

 

 

I also bought the Eduard BigEd kit, when you love you don't count..:

 

The chain bar railings is interesting:

 

https://www.eduard.com/Eduard/Big-Ed/Ships/1-200/Bismarck-1-200.html?&force_sid=40n593qarajvk183vp7uvogmqpadhens&

 

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