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Young now Old builder returns after a 35 odd year absence!


Lindsey C
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2 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

I’m 76 and just finished one of those SH 109s so it can be done 😎. There are a couple of potential fit issues with the kit. This topic from the 72 Scale Aircraft forum is an excellent build article. I’m not sure if it crops up in that article, but one early criticism was rear fuselage panel lines not improperly spaced; later kit production was supposed to have fixed that. 

Thanks for the info Chuck, there is hope for me. I am using 3x glasses at present and am on the limit of seeing the really small stuff. I might research Jeweller's vision equipment a bit more. It needs to be binocular for me.

 

Regards,

 

Lindsey

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1 hour ago, Lindsey C said:

I am using 3x glasses at present and am on the limit of seeing the really small stuff.

brighter light helps,  I mean really bright, as it make the pupil contract and this really helps to focus.   Mine are not really bright enough.  Also worth trying outside on a clear bright day.

HTH

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In addition to using my 'close up' specs under bright light I also invested in a pair of 'Mighty Sight' magnifying specs from JML which are worn over your glasses, have twin led lights and certainly help when painting small detail parts such as the moulded on nose machine guns of my Airfix A6M2 Zero. This would have been impossible to do with any precision without them so they are worth looking at (no pun intended).  There are other similar products out there but these had the best reviews and I've been very pleased with them so far.

 

Regards

Colin.

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Just to add that the Tamiya and Airfix Bf109E's are excellent kits and stand comparison with the new whistle and bells examples from Special Hobby (SH) so your Airfix example will more than meet your needs for an accurate and detailed kit. I have both the E3 and E4 SH kits and will be buying the E1 when it is released later this year but my first planned Emil for this year will be the Tamiya one with a SH one after that.

 

Regards

Colin.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2021 at 2:14 AM, fishplanebeer said:

so your Airfix example will more than meet your needs for an accurate and detailed kit.

Thx FPB. Hmmm, I am beginning to wonder now and this really is turning into a Mule. Oh Deary Me Airfix. The Tailplane (A68216) is completely out! It is really noticeably facing off to port by about 2 degrees with the starboard side of the same meeting the centre line (where the 2 halves of fuselage join). A serious fault of the kit and not mine. To fly this one you would need a fair amount of left rudder to fly in a straight line with the loss of about 15 knots of air speed. It is also not tall enough and leaves a 1mm gap from itself to the rudder which I will have to fill with sprue! It is also not truly vertical it looks to me. I would post shots but I need to sort out a host yet. Nothing I can do about about it without serious surgery. I would need to completely cut off the tail plane, re-work the panel work where it joins the fuselage (which is also offset), extend it by 1mm plus the width of the cut and re-attach it. Right I am off to correct the antenna aerial which is also the incorrect one. It should be the much shorter TR9B 'Pole' type. Starter kit my bottom! 🤣

 

P.S. I have an Armour Hobbies Hurricane Mk I - Battle of Britain - Limited Edition on the way so I should be covered for the BoB Hurricane if my mule has to hide in a dark corner of the shelf. Rock on Metal Wings!

 

Regards,

Lindsey

Edited by Lindsey C
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On the SH Bf109E's a common misconception is that the canopy is too wide which is mentioned in the build thread already provided (amongst others), however the canopy fits perfectly providing you don't clamp the fuselage halves together to remove the slight gap around the pilots rear bulk head. If you leave the gap 'as is' and apply a wee bit of filler to sort then everything fits as it should.

 

Regards

Colin.

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22 hours ago, Lindsey C said:

Right I am off to correct the antenna aerial which is also the incorrect one. It should be the much shorter TR9B 'Pole' type. Starter kit my bottom!

Done. It took me the guts of 15mins to dry fit it since the base of the mast has no chance of fitting into the hole on fuselage out of the box and is also too deep! Doesn't bother me, I find it fun, but Airfix (Hornby) are shooting themselves in the foot with this kit! It's supposed to be an entry level kit and I am glad I never encountered it as a newbie youngster as one of my first builds. Reduce the tolerances Airfix on supposed entry level stuff. A newcomer would be discouraged here and some put off the hobby. They need everything to fit, enjoy painting it and decalling, admire and go onto the next. They get proficient & technical with time, not out of the starting blocks!

 

I am dreading the Spitfire with the horrendous flashing on the sprues! Maybe I skip to another Spitfire kit but won't be giving it away to any youngster or newcomer to try, for fear of them being put off modelling! Plus the Orc pilot might give them nightmares! 🤣

 

Rgds,

 

Lindsey

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I think a true beginner wouldn't notice the finer details that your more experienced eyes have spotted and generally both the Airfix Hurricane 1 and Spitfire 1 have received positive reviews even if the panel lines could be finer. I have no connection with the company but from the many posts I've read on this forum they seem to go together without too much fettling and I'm sure a complete novice would end up with something quite good in terms of both shape and look.

 

If you want a real 'challenge' then have a go at the Revell F4U-1A Corsair in 72nd scale, you'll then be amazed just how good these Airfix kits are in comparison.

 

Regards

Colin.

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22 minutes ago, Lindsey C said:

Reduce the tolerances Airfix on supposed entry level stuff. A newcomer would be discouraged here and some put off the hobby. They need everything to fit, enjoy painting it and decalling, admire and go onto the next. They get proficient & technical with time, not out of the starting blocks!

Airfix have just done a Spitfire Vc 'entry level' kit 

 

22 hours ago, Lindsey C said:

The Tailplane (A68216) is completely out! It is really noticeably facing off to port by about 2 degrees with the starboard side of the same meeting the centre line (where the 2 halves of fuselage join).

Hurricane tail fins are offset.  They are not on the centreline.   

22 hours ago, Lindsey C said:

To fly this one you would need a fair amount of left rudder to fly in a straight line with the loss of about 15 knots of air speed. It is also not tall enough and leaves a 1mm gap from itself to the rudder which I will have to fill with sprue!

the fin off set was to offset engine torque.  It is not an unusual feature on WW2 types, also seen on Mustangs and Corsair. the Bf109 has a tail fin which is an aerofoil, again to counter engine torque.

 

I can give a very through listing of the Airfix Hurricane kit glitches, if you really want to know.  

I forced myself to build one OOB as I was just going round in detail circles.   It's a decent kit, if a bit fiddly in areas. 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235052380-hurricane-airfix-72nd-fabric-wing-mki-oob/

 

I have one I started messing about with, which is in one of the many part done project boxes...hence just doing it OOB and getting it finished.

HTH

 

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6 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

the fin off set was to offset engine torque.  It is not an unusual feature on WW2 types, also seen on Mustangs and Corsair. the Bf109 has a tail fin which is an aerofoil, again to counter engine torque.

Brilliant, thanks Troy. You learn something everyday! Life is always interesting!

 

21 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

I think a true beginner wouldn't notice the finer details that your more experienced eyes have spotted and generally both the Airfix Hurricane 1 and Spitfire 1 have received positive reviews even if the panel lines could be finer

Thanks FPB. It's not the details that worry me about the kit. It's the fit and ease of building for what is an entry level kit and any possible discouragement of newcomers. Wait till you try and 'easily' glue the aerial mast into it the fuselage. This has me wondering, again, if a spurious batch of Airfix models were pawned off to Lidl? I seem to have the 'runt of the litter' here judging by our conversations. I will sign up to a host and pop up some images of the Mk1 Spitfire sprue's 😱

 

Thanks guys,

Lindsey

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23 hours ago, Lindsey C said:

It is really noticeably facing off to port by about 2 degrees

Lindsay, just to clarify this detail , Not often photographed, as it not easy to do,

 

this just about shows it, not also how the canopy rails curve. 

Spitfire_and_Hurricane_in_flight_MOD_451

  

this shot shows it

sh25.jpg

 

does show this though, from here

while a restored aircraft, Shuttleworth a very good on overall authenticity, and the images are some of the best online for a feel of a working airframe,  though don't use it as guide for internal colours.

 

There is a great walkround of L1592 here

http://primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/

L1592 was restored by Hawker in the 1950's though.

 

the only unrestored airframe is the Finnish one, which has been basically untouched since 1943...   I can dig out walkround if you wish.

 

HTH

T

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Airfix starter sets are just standard kits boxed with paints, brushes and glue so a newcomer won't need basically anything that is not already in every household, like some kind of razor thing to cut the pieces off the sprue and warm water for the decals. They aren't any easier (or difficult, for that matter) than their "not starter" versions; is exactly the same plastic. The exception is the new Spitfire Mk.Vc that Troy mentioned, which is a true starter kit having fewer parts and simplified construction. I don't have any starter set myself; the extras add to the price while not providing anything useful for me.

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Posted (edited)

Brilliant. Thanks again Troy. Fabulous shots that show the offset well (plus extra info for a modeller). I go to bed a more educated man! 🙂

 

I have loads of shots of L1592 and the Finnish Hurricane but am looking forward to the walkround for L1592 which I will view tomorrow. If it is little effort for you I would like to see also the Finnish Hurricane walkround too. 👌

 

Regards,

Lindsey

Edited by Lindsey C
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Linds. I too am recently returned to modelling the plastic fantastic. Strewth! Where did all these manufacturers come from? I'm still getting used to Matchbox coming on the scene. Last time I indulged, Monogram were exotic. I did have a considerable stash collected over many years, waiting for my retirement, which has finally arrived. Alas, all but one were lost in a fire (a not atypical Australian story, me fears). The only survivor is an AFV Club AFV, the most fiddly and ludicrously detailed kit I've ever taken on and a real challenge for this returnee. But I'm enjoying myself, have erected a cabinet to keep the dust off the treasures, begun carefully rebuilding a modest stash, and am flirting with the concept of an airbrush. How come all the scale pilot figures have faces like Jimmy Carr's? Good luck with the Battle of Britain air fleet. 

 

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Hi Maginot,

 

Nice to hear I am not alone in the re-instituting of a former modelling career (and I don't mean the 'Cat Walk!').

 

Sad news on the stash. Some of the fires you guys are having and we are seeing on the other side of the 'big blue marble' here are very scary looking!

 

I too am flirting with the idea of an airbrush before I hit the German stuff. They have camouflage schemes, that seem to me, will be near impossible to achieve by brush! (Any tips or links to existing threads greatly welcomed here too guys).

 

Thanks,

Lindsey

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22 minutes ago, Lindsey C said:

I too am flirting with the idea of an airbrush before I hit the German stuff. They have camouflage schemes, that seem to me, will be near impossible to achieve by brush! (Any tips or links to existing threads greatly welcomed here too guys).

 

Hi Lindsey - I tend to agree that the Luftwaffe schemes become easier once some airbrushing skills are acquired, but there are also some truly excellent and very authentic-looking examples of brush painted Luftwaffe schemes in the RFI forum.  It seems either can be used to good effect :) 

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I’ve read this and totally understand the comments on veracity/accuracy. However, as a fellow new starter, I personally have taken a different approach for better or for worse. If Mr Airfix tells me it’s a Mk1 Hurricane then that’s it for me. For example, I have no real idea how many spokes a certain type should have on its main wheels so it gets what’s in the box! I’ll follow the instructions, build it and paint it as well as I can and if it comes out resembling in some way, shape or form a Mk1 Hurricane then I’m a happy bunny. Definitely not a purist approach but I’m doing this for fun. I’m also only building what’s in the box (glue, paint and rigging (one day🤞) excepting)The only aftermarket items I am using are decals - I want my a/c to represent 17 Sqn RFC/RAF and this Sqn is barely represented in the main stream offerings. 
 

None of the above will stop me looking with awe and admiration at the work of the folk who display their amazing pieces on here - they inspire me to do the best I can within my acknowledged limitations (failing eyesight, old age etc etc). They also give so many useful hints and tips on generic and specific builds that I’ve already made use of.
 

Model on!!!

 

Bill

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7 hours ago, BillF67 said:

Definitely not a purist approach but I’m doing this for fun. I’m also only building what’s in the box (glue, paint and rigging (one day🤞) excepting)The only aftermarket items I am using are decals - I want my a/c to represent 17 Sqn RFC/RAF and this Sqn is barely represented in the main stream offerings.

Definitely Bill. You are absolutely right. I am just pernickety if I know something is not correct. It annoys me every time I see it standing there! A fault of my personality! We all do this for relaxation and enjoyment and the help here is great. I too have already learnt much on this forum and am very glad I signed up. A great place to advance our scale modelling. We have much to aspire to here! I am looking forward to the rest of my 'little stash'. 🧐🤣

 

Regards,

Lindsey

 

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Lindsey,

 

I can fully appreciate your desire to make a faultless model and to scrutinise every aspect but as others have suggested it has a major impact upon rate of progress and getting a model finally completed. I know from my own experience having only returned to the hobby late last year that every time I look at the four models I've built so far my eyes are always drawn to the things I know I'm not happy with and I overlook the good things and that overall I'm happy with each one. What I discovered however is that the finished article improved with each build I did and I learned a few lessons along the way so at least my current build will not have the same mistakes (but probably a few new ones I suspect).

 

One thing you might find helpful is to remember to always blow all the tiny particles of dust out of the cockpit and polish the inside of the canopy before you fix it in place as once there any errant dust particle will be permanently on view, one of mistakes! You may probably know this already as you've built before so apologies for preaching to the converted if that's the case.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

Ps. I always use Novus 1 to polish the canopy, inside and out, and it works really well

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Colin

 

Youve just given me a terrible flashback! Me and a bottle of Greygates up and down the line polishing Tonka GR1 canopies inside and out - and the jockeys were never happy! It isn’t until you’ve had to polish one that you realise how big they are and nearly always had to hand pump the hydraulics as well to open the beggar😖

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I'm a little late to the party, but just wanted to say welcome back to the hobby!  It's been about 12 years for me since returning, after an approximately 35 year absence myself!  I was absolutely stupefied at how things had changed since the models I recalled building 'back in the day'.  Not only the aftermarket extras, like photo etch and 3D printing, plus vinyl cockpit 3D parts...but the amazing molding detail that the manufacturers now are capable of, plus slide mold technology!  I'm guessing you had to be as amazed as I was, if you'd not kept up with the advances in our hobby.  

 

Again, welcome back, and if I can be of any help to you, as another 'returnee' also, don't hesitate to ask!

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On 14/07/2021 at 15:46, BillF67 said:

The only aftermarket items I am using are decals - I want my a/c to represent 17 Sqn RFC/RAF and this Sqn is barely represented in the main stream offerings. 

You'll like this if you have not seen it, this photo is a link to an album of 17 Sq photos, circa July 1940,  when they shared Debden with 85 Sq, and had been resprayed into 'sky' with non standard leading edges on planes in both units

17 Squadron

 

 

 

On 14/07/2021 at 15:46, BillF67 said:

If Mr Airfix tells me it’s a Mk1 Hurricane then that’s it for me.

except Mk.I Hurricanes are a very complex subject.   Mr Airfix tells you it's a Mk.I fabric wing though, and from what they give you,  that limits what you can build, as most mk.I's are metal winged.   

Not to mention the 7different props seen fitted to the Mk.I, fabric or metal wings, two different windscreens, the earlier one later being upgraded to external armour, so 3 variations   as well as numerous other small changes......  but they are all Mk.I's.....  You can see why the Americans used serial block dash numbers.    I'm still learning about them, and new fragments keep turning up. 

Mostly it because they are not flippin' Spitfires though. 

talking of which, I think some colour footage linked to here recently  has glimpes of 17 Sq Spitfire XIV in Japan late 45 or 46....    I saw a screen grab elsewhere, forgot to watch the film.

 

Back to 17 Sq Hurricanes

This, though is one of those quirks that is not in any book yet,  

46178589164_aebd7a2de9_b.jpg17 Squadron 13 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr

 

one of the 50 Hurricanes from the P and V batches built with fabric wings in the summer of 1940, but with otherwise a standard mid to late mk.I fuselage. 

Not sure of the serial, there are a few possibilties.  

 

this is possibly another, the serial is hard to read P37??  

46178593464_1be8232252_b.jpg17 Squadron 03 by Сергей Кривицкий, on Flickr

 

 

Note, both P3780 and P3788 went to 17 Sq initially, according to Air Britain.
Also P3760.
On maximum enlargement, it look more like P376* 
the only P376* that is with 17 Sq is P3760, and it's fabric winged...  
 

Note also the use of flight coloured spinners, also seen on 85 sq at the same time,  YV-Q in the image is P3166, 

see here for more,  it's a sequence of photos I tried to put into order, with comments. 

 

Of course @BillF67, your model, your rules, your choice.       if nothing else I hope the pics are of interest,  from one of the comments you are ex-RAF, so the sequence of P3166 maybe of interest from a technical viewpoint. 

  I should really do a commentary thread on the 17 Sq ones as well, as there are numerous interesting details in them, mostly regarding markings.   Most seem to have personal emblems on them as well.

 

cheers

T

 

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That’s brilliant, Troy, and many thanks.  I won’t comment here, as I don’t want to hijack the thread, but when I post YB - J in RFI I 

look forward to discussions there👍

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