Yellow sun Mk2 colour

[cherisy]

Hi all

With the impending arrival of my Airfix vulcan I've got hold of a 1/72 Yellow Sun to go with the 12 sqn scheme.

The question is : what colour were operational Yellow Sun weapons?. Im aware of previous threads about the Blue Danube and Red Beard. So, were Yellow Sun's white? Or Deep bronze green?

Thanks in advance.

[Julien]

Lookin at the few photos from the era they are all in B&W I would go with deep bronze green, they are not white thats for sure. Thats just my take on it tho.

[cherisy]

8 minutes ago, Julien said:

Lookin at the few photos from the era they are all in B&W I would go with deep bronze green, they are not white thats for sure. Thats just my take on it tho.

I'd read somewhere that training rounds were green but not sure of the era. I agree the ones in b and w photos lean towards green though

[Jonny]

isn't there a Yellow Sun in the RAF Museum Cosford?  I have seen one at Newark.  In both cases they are painted deep bronze green (I'd guess and say tha Cosford example is probably correct!.  I've photos somewhere but they're in my new Desktop that for reasons I won't divulge I can't get at right now but should be able to in the next couple of days.

Cherisy ... please  ... where did you obtain your Yellow Sun from?

 hope this helps,

Jonny

 

[cherisy]

15 minutes ago, Jonny said:

isn't there a Yellow Sun in the RAF Museum Cosford?  I have seen one at Newark.  In both cases they are painted deep bronze green (I'd guess and say tha Cosford example is probably correct!.  I've photos somewhere but they're in my new Desktop that for reasons I won't divulge I can't get at right now but should be able to in the next couple of days.

Cherisy ... please  ... where did you obtain your Yellow Sun from?

 hope this helps,

Jonny

 

Yep I've seen the one at Cosford and Deep bronze  green seems to be the correct colour. I'd read somewhere  that green was the colour of inert bombs at some point  . 

I got my yellow sun from Hannants. Transport wings made them. I've checked and there's still dome in stock.

I'm intrigued about your secret desk top 🤔😂

[EwenS]

I’m probably just about to confuse the whole issue.

 

I’ve seen the Cosford Yellow Sun in its bronze green paint job, but is that the original colour? Is it painted as a live weapon or a training round? Did the weapons remain in the same colour scheme from introduction in 1959 to withdrawal around 1966? 

 

I came across this site a while ago on British nuclear weapons which is still a WIP. However, while it doesn’t cover Yellow Sun, it does cover in a lot of detail the successor weapon WE.177 introduced from the mid 1960s. That weapon used a variety of colour schemes starting in white, with only the last being an “olive” green in the 1970s. So if WE.177 began life in white in the mid 1960s, why would Yellow Sun have been green in the late 1950s?

 

http://www.nuclear-weapons.info/vw.htm#WE.177

http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/we177a-5-percent-paint.PNG

http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/we177b-5-percent-paint.PNG

 

Note also the difference in colour between training rounds in blue, early live rounds in white and later live rounds in green. In B&W photos I can see the first and last appearing similar.

 

I have a copy of RAF Nuclear Deterrent Forces published by HMSO in my library. It has a colour photo of an inert Yellow Sun Mk.2 being loaded into a Victor during an NATO Exercise Unison, so dating it to 1965. It was a medium blue colour with a darker band around the middle of the warhead section. The blue is much lighter than suggested for WE.177 and lighter than the trolley on which it sits.

 

Other B&W photos in that book have them in a dark colour with a lighter band around the warhead section and a different lighter colour on the nose cap. But these are undated. They appear darker than the bomb trolleys.

 

The photos of Red Beard weapons also show a darker colour. But US bombs supplied to the RAF appear to be white in that era.

 

Edit: This is the photo I was referring to

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/462393086726580626/

 

and here a two tone one

https://www.nationalcoldwarexhibition.org/research/collections/avro-vulcan-b2/

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by EwenS

[Selwyn]

All  the operational bomb types you have referred to in your post as being in green are painted Deep Bronze Green (DBG) the standard british bomb colour up to quite recently.

WE 177 was originally painted white, as were Red Beards post 1964  to match the white undersides of RN strike aircraft Scimitar, Sea Vixen,  and in the case of Red Beard semi recessed on Buccaneer in the 1960/70's. The RAF carried WE177 and Red Beard  internally on Vulcan, Canberra, and Buccaneer, and they were not  repainted DBG as the white colour did not comprimise the camouflage on these aircraft. 

 

With the retirement of RN  fixed wing aircraft with white undersides, and carriage externally on RAF Jaguars and Tornadoes becoming the norm, the WE177 bombs were repainted Deep Bronze Green to match the aircraft camouflage. YS2 and red beard had been retired by then.

 

In 1964 the UK adopted the NATO weapon marking system. they used BS 381c equivelent colours to those used by the US.  YS2 Practice rounds were originally painted white (UK colour for practice weapons prior to 1964, see your two (actually three) tone bomb picture, white bomb  with DBG tail and black radome) They were repainted in 1964 in a uniform pale Blue colour to conform with the NATO standard, (see your first YS2 bomb colour picture) but this colour was  soon superceded by Deep Saxe Blue (DSB) in the RAF as this was felt to better match the US Practice blue.  I believe the YS2 practice bombs were not repainted  DSB as they went out of service  quite soon after the new colours were adopted. All live bombs had a yellow HE hazard band and an orange nuclear hazard band applied with the 1964 changes. These obviously remained when repainted DBG. 

You could also see Drill  versions of WE177 painted Oxford Blue used for ground training and marked "Not for Flight. there is one of these shown in the thumbnails on the side of your second picture  in black and white on a type "O" bomb trolley being towed by a landrover.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Selwyn

[cherisy]

1 hour ago, Selwyn said:

All  the operational bomb types you have referred to in your post as being in green are painted Deep Bronze Green (DBG) the standard british bomb colour up to quite recently.

WE 177 was originally painted white, as were Red Beards post 1964  to match the white undersides of RN strike aircraft Scimitar, Sea Vixen,  and in the case of Red Beard semi recessed on Buccaneer in the 1960/70's. The RAF carried WE177 and Red Beard  internally on Vulcan, Canberra, and Buccaneer, and they were not  repainted DBG as the white colour did not comprimise the camouflage on these aircraft. 

 

With the retirement of RN  fixed wing aircraft with white undersides, and carriage externally on RAF Jaguars and Tornadoes becoming the norm, the WE177 bombs were repainted Deep Bronze Green to match the aircraft camouflage. YS2 and red beard had been retired by then.

 

In 1964 the UK adopted the NATO weapon marking system. they used BS 381c equivelent colours to those used by the US.  YS2 Practice rounds were originally painted white (UK colour for practice weapons prior to 1964, see your two (actually three) tone bomb picture, white bomb  with DBG tail and black radome) They were repainted in 1964 in a uniform pale Blue colour to conform with the NATO standard, (see your first YS2 bomb colour picture) but this colour was  soon superceded by Deep Saxe Blue (DSB) in the RAF as this was felt to better match the US Practice blue.  I believe the YS2 practice bombs were not repainted  DSB as they went out of service  quite soon after the new colours were adopted. All live bombs had a yellow HE hazard band and an orange nuclear hazard band applied with the 1964 changes. These obviously remained when repainted DBG. 

You could also see Drill  versions of WE177 painted Oxford Blue used for ground training and marked "Not for Flight. there is one of these shown in the thumbnails on the side of your second picture  in black and white on a type "O" bomb trolley being towed by a landrover.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Selwyn

That pretty much nails it thanks Selwyn. Actually  it kills 2 birds with one stone as I've a Freightdog  WE177 conv for the Airfix Buccaneer  that I was planning to do as a early 12 sqn  version 😀

So the Cosford YS2 is correct for an operational  weapon. The 12 Sqn markings for the new Airfix Vulcan are for 1963 I think so that would be pertinent?

[Selwyn]

2 minutes ago, cherisy said:

That pretty much nails it thanks Selwyn. Actually  it kills 2 birds with one stone as I've a Freightdog  WE177 conv for the Airfix Buccaneer  that I was planning to do as a early 12 sqn  version 😀

So the Cosford YS2 is correct for an operational  weapon. The 12 Sqn markings for the new Airfix Vulcan are for 1963 I think so that would be pertinent?

Not aware of the 12 sqn Vulcan option so I can't help on that.

 

Selwyn