Finnish AF Pe-2 recce versions?

[ReccePhreak]

I have three different 1/48 Petlyakov Pe-2 kits, and knowing the penchant for the Finnish AF to convert some of their acquired aircraft into photo-recce versions, I would like to do one that way.

The HiPM Petlyakov Pe-2 (Series 1-105) (Kit 48-007) comes with Finnish markings for PE-212

The MPM Petlyakov Pe-2 FT (Kit 48041) comes with Czech & Soviet markings.

The Zvezda Pe-2 (Kit 4809) only comes with soviet markings.

Does anybody have any definitive info on a Finnish recce version of their Pe-2s, (including the camera(s) setup)? If so, which of my kits would be best suited for the conversion?

A search through my reference material wasn't very helpful, especially since I couldn't read many or the foreign languages they were in. 

Larry

Edited April 24, 2022 by ReccePhreak
spelling

[GiampieroSilvestri]

The HiPM kit should be correct.It has bigger windows under the nose and the rear cockpit without machine gun.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[ReccePhreak]

1 minute ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

The HiPM kit should be correct.It has bigger windows under the nose and the rear cockpit without machine gun.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Thanks for that info. Now I just have to figure out where they installed the camera(s), and what the aircraft number was for one of their recce birds.

Larry

[Black Knight]

afair the cameras were located in the fuselage bomb bay with a circular window for each camera. Only two cameras,

[ReccePhreak]

8 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

afair the cameras were located in the fuselage bomb bay with a circular window for each camera. Only two cameras,

That's slightly different from the pics I have seen of Russian Pe-2Rs, which had a single camera lens sticking out through a hole in the bottom of the aircraft. Some of the drawings I have seen show 2 cameras mounted in the bomb bay. Hmmmm. 

Well, I suppose I can always make a Russian Pe-2R, and a Finnish Pe-2R.

Edited June 26, 2021 by ReccePhreak

[Black Knight]

afair the Pe-2 has two fuselage bomb bays, and a camera was fitted into each one

[GiampieroSilvestri]

The Finnish Petlyakov Pe-2 were not recconaissance aircraft.The Ilmavoimat bought six Petlyakov Pe-2 from the Luftwaffe and captured a Pe-3 and planned to used them as dive bombers but later decided to convert them into long range recconaissance aircraft.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

[ReccePhreak]

10 minutes ago, GiampieroSilvestri said:

The Finnish Petlyakov Pe-2 were not recconaissance aircraft.The Ilmavoimat bought six Petlyakov Pe-2 from the Luftwaffe and captured a Pe-3 and planned to used them as dive bombers but later decided to convert them into long range recconaissance aircraft.

 

Saluti

 

Giampiero

Well, if that's the case, I'll jut make my kit(s) in Russian markings. Too bad nobody makes decals for the cool tiger(?) on the side of the nose of a Russian Pe-2R.

Larry

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, ReccePhreak said:

Now I just have to figure out where they installed the camera(s), and what the aircraft number was for one of their recce birds.

Ask the Ilmavoimat museum, they are very helpful. 

https://airforcemuseum.fi/contact-information/

[Antti_K]

Hello Larry,

 

our air force had seven PE-2s bought from Germany and one PE-3 that made a forced landing on the Finnish side. The aircraft were equipped to carry a Fairchild 3C camera. Here's one of them:

 

 

I was under the impression that only one camera was carried at any one time, but I could be wrong. I also think that the camera was carried in the rear fuselage rather than in the bomb bay. At least the camera operator sat in the rear fuselage. Must have been a horrible ride!

 

You can see the Air Force Museum's digital photo collection (PE-2 and PE-3) in here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wLj4cyzNZagIqlZ8CNBEcNu23-dl7_NN

 

And some excellent photos and original documents in here: https://www.flightforum.fi/topic/31813-pe-301/

 

Cheers,

Antti

[ReccePhreak]

Looking at the photos in the first link, I didn't see any pictures of an aircraft with either a camera sticking out a hole in the fuselage, or a camera window. 

 

Looking at the 2nd link from @Antti_K Ifound this interesting section (Auto-translated):

PE-301 technical data:
Engine: 2x1260 horsepower Klimov M-105PF, 12-cylinder liquid-cooled V-row engine. Flight distance n2000 km. Wingspan 17.16 m, length 12.66 m, altitude 3.92 m, flight weight 7557 kg, flight speed 525 km / h. Climb to 5000 meters in 9 minutes. Functional legal height 7500m. Ceiling height 9000m. Armament: 20 mm cannon with pilot, plus two 12.7mm machine guns and one 7.62 mm machine gun. 12.7 mm machine color with a sight. Crew 2-3. In addition, the following cameras, one wide-angle camera or a normal camera and one Rb reconnaissance camera could be placed in the machine.

Emphasis is mine.

Larry

Edited June 26, 2021 by ReccePhreak

[Antti_K]

Larry,

 

here is probably the best and most accurate drawing about Finnish PE-2s and their camera window locations:

 

https://www.sisumodels.fi/product/11324/petlyakov-pe-2--pe-3-1942-46-suomi---viimeisia-viedaan-172

 

Cheers,

Antti

[ReccePhreak]

Antti,

Thanks, I have the InSCALE decals for my DB-3 kit, but I never saw that sheet. 

It's too expensive to buy the sheet, just to use as reference for a 1/48 kit, but it will help me.

Now I can build a recce Finnish Pe-2, using that decal sheet instruction sheet, and also build a Russian recce Pe-2R, using my digital reference books. 

Larry

Edited June 26, 2021 by ReccePhreak

[Antti_K]

I'm glad I could help you🙂

 

I personally knew one of the Petlyakov pilots, Kullervo "Kude" Virtanen (he is sitting on the ground below a canopy frame with his gunner in one of the Air Force Museum's photos) who always said that PE-2 was a very good airplane for photo reconnaissance. They usually flew with two escorting Me-109 Gs. As you already knew, Pe-2 was a fast bird. On the other hand a well known Finnish ace Jorma "Joppe" Karhunen told me, that Pe-2s were considered rather unreliable planes. At least one survived the war and was still flying in 1946.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[PFlint]

1 hour ago, ReccePhreak said:

Well, if that's the case, I'll jut make my kit(s) in Russian markings. Too bad nobody makes decals for the cool tiger(?) on the side of the nose of a Russian Pe-2R.

Larry

in 1/72 scale Travers makes the decals for that Soviet Pe-2R with the tiger on it.

[ReccePhreak]

Thanks @Antti_K

I knew you would be able to help me. Being a "fast bird" really helps in the photo reconnaissance role, especially since you are usually "Alone, Unarmed & Unafraid" (Actually scared to death).

One of these days, I need to get back to working on 2 of my other Finnish recce birds, the MiG-21bis, and the BAe Hawk.

Cheers,

Larry

[ReccePhreak]

On 6/26/2021 at 7:01 PM, PFlint said:

in 1/72 scale Travers makes the decals for that Soviet Pe-2R with the tiger on it.

While searching for that sheet (No luck), I found out that Begemot does a 1/48 Pe-2/Pe-3 decals sheet, with those markings on it. 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BT48041?result-token=GpW9a

Unfortunately, the sheet is almost $25 WITHOUT shipping, and it comes with markings for 108 DIFFERENT aircraft! That's almost half of what my Zvezda 1/48 Pe-2 kit cost me. Maybe I can find someone who has that decal set, and would be will to trade for or sell part of the markings.

Larry

Edited June 29, 2021 by ReccePhreak

[Antti_K]

10 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

One of these days, I need to get back to working on 2 of my other Finnish recce birds, the MiG-21bis, and the BAe Hawk.

Cheers,

Larry

 

Oh, that's something I almost forgot. Last year I participated the annual air defence exercise (I'm still in the reserves) and got the BAe Hawk reconnaissance system manual. Unfortunately there wasn't any flights scheduled for me in a Hawk. And this year the exercise was cancelled for us reservists. The manual lacks photos but provides some pretty nice drawings. And lots of Finnish language😉

If there is something I can help you with, just ask.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[72modeler]

Larry,

 

The colors and markings sheet for the In Scale Pe-2, as posted by Antti K is probably the best reference for the camera fit. I have the history of each of the Pe-2's, from PE-211 to 301, if you are interested, send me a pm. I have photos and text in several Finnish publications that you could try to find. Several years ago, noted Finnish aviation historian and author Kari Stenman had a sale to clear out many of his publications, and being a real fan of Finnish aviation, I bought many of them- priceless references! Those that feature the Pe-2 are from the Suomen  Ilmavoimien Historia series. volumes  9,19, and 23, as well as Finnish Air Force Camouflage and Markings. Good luck on your project- the Pe-2 is a handsome airplane, and especially so in Finnish colors and markings.

Mike

 

[AaCee26]

On 6/27/2021 at 1:36 AM, Antti_K said:

Here is probably the best and most accurate drawing about Finnish PE-2s and their camera window locations:

 

https://www.sisumodels.fi/product/11324/petlyakov-pe-2--pe-3-1942-46-suomi---viimeisia-viedaan-172

Hi,

 

The camera bulge in PE-215 is visible at least on the Finnish Air Force Museum photos 0014, 0018 and 0140.

 

PE-3 is quite different to the Pe-3FT and for PE-301 also Finnish modifications which are poorly documented.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee