Conscription during WW2 in UK

[dad's lad]

Hope this is the right forum for this question but I've always wondered, if you were "called up" during WW2, how was it decided which branch of the armed services you would serve in?

 

Thanks, Clive.

[Pete in Lincs]

From what I've read, a lot of blokes went and volunteered for the RAF before they got their papers. Rather than get an Army post.

A large number of them later regretted it if they got Bomber Command, once they found out what they'd let themselves in for.

I think it depended where they had vacancies though. 

[dad's lad]

20 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

From what I've read, a lot of blokes went and volunteered for the RAF before they got their papers. Rather than get an Army post.

A large number of them later regretted it if they got Bomber Command, once they found out what they'd let themselves in for.

I think it depended where they had vacancies though. 

Thanks, I've often seen in films conscripts going through assessment but it always seems to be the Army. 

[Black Knight]

Despite the popular myths to the contrary the military put civilian trained people into similar jobs in the military and the man-power where it was needed, eg in the few months before D-Day in June 1944 more recruits were sent to the Army than to the RAF. Between 1939 and 1942 more recruits were sent to the RAF than to the Army, For the RN most crews were of volunteers than conscripts but the RN got their share when they needed people.

 

as an aside; conscription was never introduced in Northern Ireland, for various reasons

1, there was and is a certain part of the N.I. population who will not have anything to with the British Gov. It was reckoned that conscription of these people would cause much agitation by them

2. per capita, N.I. was offering up more than its share of volunteers

3. a great majority of N.I. folk were in 'reserved' occupations, eg ship building, aeroplane building & servicing, linen manufacturing so they could not be touched

4. then, and even today, there were a lot of men and women from Eire volunteering into the British forces, They crossed the 'border' and joined up. It was reckoned that although conscription would not really affect them it might put them off from joining, as no self respecting Irishman is willing to be told to do anything by anybody!

5. anyone who was conscripted but didn't want to serve could up-sticks and disappear into Eire very easily. Better to have them working in one of the many factories.

 

With these in mind the powers in charge worked out that by introducing conscription they would have;  a. serious trouble administering it and b. at best 1% increase in man-power from N.I. and more likely as much as 10% reduction of man-power from N.I. and maybe loss to the workforce of the ship yard and other vital factories

[Grey Beema]

Dad volunteered for the Andrew in ‘45 whilst still 17 (he was signed up then sent home until his 18th birthday).  His logic was that he wanted to go to the Fleet Air Arm and you could volunteer for a specific service rather than go where told.  He also said that joining as RNVR got you slightly better treatment (for the first hour)..

[dad's lad]

59 minutes ago, Grey Beema said:

He also said that joining as RNVR got you slightly better treatment (for the first hour)..

Reminds me of when we went to see HMS Victory years ago, some CPO treated us as if we were signing up! My Dad muttered something to the effect that we'd come to visit the Navy not bloody well join it...

Edited June 26, 2021 by dad's lad

[Bullbasket]

I wouldn't swear to it, but it was probably the same system which was in operation during the late 40's and 50's for National Service. My brother-in-law was called up around '49 and because he was working as a mechanic, he was drafted into the REME. My brother on the other hand, knew that his call up was imminent in the mid 50's and didn't want to go into  something that he didn't like the sound of, so instead of waiting, he volunteered, as having a Scottish father, he wanted to join a Scottish regiment. He got his choice and spent two years in the HLI. I think that on the whole, common sense would have prevailed. If you already had a recognised skill, it would have been stupid to waste it.

 

John.

[noelh]

Remember too, the Bevin boys, conscripted and sent down the mines. That must have been a shock to many of them. I'd rather serve in submarines than go down the mines. 

 

That practice carried on post war for a bit. 

 

 

[Mr T]

My father was never called up as his boss realised that an 18 year old in charge of a line of women lathe operatives was a cheap option and so got him reserved. When he tried to volunteer for the RAF, they wouldn't accept him, partly because my grandmother was a widow and her other two sons were in the forces leaving her and my dad's five sisters, one of whom was dying of TB and also because of his job. He was always very bitter about it. I don't think his poor eyesight helped (which I have inherited). 

[EwenS]

1 minute ago, noelh said:

Remember too, the Bevin boys, conscripted and sent down the mines. That must have been a shock to many of them. I'd rather serve in submarines than go down the mines. 

 

That practice carried on post war for a bit. 

 

 

You beat me to them! They were selected by ballot from amongst all the conscripts. 10% of all conscripts aged 18-25 “recruited” from Dec 1943 to May 1945, although the last did not leave service until 1948.

 

I recently came across the 1939 list of reserved occupations and the ages from which it applied to them.

http://anguline.co.uk/Free/Reserved.pdf

 

By late 1943 the British services were suffering manpower shortages so I’m not sure just how much “choice” there was by then. Older ships were being laid up and crews redeployed to man landing craft, as were other RM units deemed surplus to requirements. Infantry and Armoured units were broken up from about Aug 1944 in NWE and Italy to bring other units up to strength.

[Black Knight]

post WW2 National Service was conscription, 

afair the Act which introduced UK conscription in 1939 was called the 'National Service Act'

In about 1957/58 one of by B-i-L thought he was going to have to do NS so he volunteered. As he was then driving HGVs the Army put him into the Irish Guards as a truck driver, even though he was only 5ft 8inches tall, below the Guards height requirement at the time

Post WW2 NS was sometimes applied to N.I. even though it should not have been

[bentwaters81tfw]

Interesting regarding conscription.

My father was initially a Miner (Iron Ore), but joined the Police force. He was stationed in Suffolk just about the time the USAAF turned up and would have had Eye airfield in his beat.

Despite this, he was conscripted into the RA and entered the fray at El-Alamein. Immediately upon the end of hostilities, he was flown home to resume Police duties.

 

Two reserved occupations, and lots of drunken airmen to round up, yet still he went.

[Bullbasket]

Before my Dad left Scotland, he and all of his brothers were on the railways, and so he was, at the outbreak of war. His job was classified as a reserve, but after about a year, he was conscripted into the navy, in his late 30's. As a kid (I was a baby boomer), I didn't think that my Dad had done much during the war, but it was only later, after he died (at the early age of 61), that I really found out what he had done. He was part of a crew manning fireboats, in the Port of London, in the middle of the Blitz. It was then that I realised that you could be stationed in the UK and still be right in the thick of it.

 

John.

[593jones]

3 hours ago, noelh said:

Remember too, the Bevin boys, conscripted and sent down the mines. That must have been a shock to many of them. I'd rather serve in submarines than go down the mines. 

 

That practice carried on post war for a bit. 

 

 

 

I remember on one of the episodes of The World At War there was a very well spoken man who said it had been arranged for him to go into the Brigade of Guards when conscripted, but his number came up and down the pit he went.  Can't remember if he said how he went on, but must have been quite a culture shock for him.  

 

Dave (ex-miner)

[fatfingers]

My dad was called up for his National Service in 1958. He was convinced he had been forgotten about and had got away with it as he was going on 21. He went into the Army and did his basic at Catterick. Due to being classed as 'bright' he was then sent to Lincoln to do his trade training in the Royal Signals as a switch board operator. He always said he was lucky because once he had trained up he was sent straight to Hong Kong to serve the rest of his time. He did a stop over in Cyprus on the way got the Cyprus Service Medal for his trouble. He's always said his biggest regret was not signing on for the full 22 as he loved the Army! Reason he didn't was due to his dad dying during his last few months of his service and not wanting to leave his mum on her own. Love it when he tells me about his army days.

 

My father in law joined the navy at 15 as a 'boy' and spent his time at HMS Ganges before joining his first ship. He was on HMS Ceylon during the Suez operation and got the campaign medal... or as he calls it his 'sunbathing medal' He was next signed on to HMS Hermes but spent 9 months in 'barracks' waiting for her to be finished and to provision the ship. His final ship was HMS Tartar before coming out in 1965. He worked the fire control radar for the 40mm Bofors and rose to rank of 'killick' He was on board Hermes when they were doing trials with the Bucaneer and also has some great stories to tell 😉

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[dad's lad]

Thanks all, some great answers.

[Robin]

Hi Clive.

 

Rather interesting that most of your replies have been from members referring to their relatives, however, I was actually conscripted to do my 2 years National Service.  In mid 1960 I had just completed a 6 year apprenticeship in the printing trade, having been born in 1939, and so I received my papers to report to the local office for conscription and medical.  In mid 1960, the Government had decided that National Service was to officially end on 31 December 1960, everyone who was then accepted would have to go into the Army.  However, soon after leaving school in the mid 50s I had joined the Royal Observer Corps, and so, having worn a 'Blue Suit' I received a 'little chitty' which said that if I was accepted for conscription I could go into the RAF.  Therefore on 18 October 1960 I reported to RAF Cardington to be enlisted into the RAF for 2 years National Service, and as they say, "that is history".    Robin. 

[noelh]

Interesting Robin. I worked with a man, Irish who worked in the UK in the fifties in aviation. He got caught for national service which he enjoyed to be fair. I do have to say though that he was the most unmilitarily man I ever met. 

 

Perhaps that was the flaw of national service. 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by noelh

[Bullbasket]

13 hours ago, fatfingers said:

My dad was called up for his National Service in 1958. He was convinced he had been forgotten about and had got away with it as he was going on 21. He went into the Army and did his basic at Catterick. Due to being classed as 'bright' he was then sent to Lincoln to do his trade training in the Royal Signals as a switch board operator. He always said he was lucky because once he had trained up he was sent straight to Hong Kong to serve the rest of his time.

Ah, a fellow Scaleyback. The joys of 11 Signal Regiment, The Harwood Club and the 40 line F&F. Happy days. I was there in '64, and then spent two years in Germany, where my son was born, and then two glorious years in Singapore. Bought myself out in '69 after the OC and myself agreed that I was never likely to get promotion as long as I had a hole in my posterior. To chippy by half!

 

John.

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    when i was an apprentice in the 70's one of the guys training me was ex RN ww2 

 

   he said he was happy he did badly in his trade test, as after he found out that the top couple of percent always went straight to the submarine service

 

   he scored enough to get on frigates 

 

 he was a mechanic but scored high enough to be put in the electrical trade

 

     and he had great RN stories to tell 

 

      cheers

         jerry

[Pete in Lincs]

8 hours ago, Beermonster1958 said:

I cannot even begin to imagine what it must have been like.

Track down a copy of this book. An excellent read that details the whole campaign 1944/45.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tail-End-Charlies-Battles-Bomber-1944-45/dp/0141015047/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2HFBD7DDPV1R0&dchild=1&keywords=tail+end+charlie&qid=1624904798&s=books&sprefix=tail+end+%2Caps%2C161&sr=1-1

[John_W]

22 hours ago, Beermonster1958 said:

It's interesting seeing the variety of answers here.

I had an uncle who volunteered for the RAF.

He did it because he felt it was a better option than the Army and, he wanted at least the option of making a choice rather than having his mind made up for him.

From the situation he described, It seems that most (perhaps naturally) wanted to be pilots and, the volunteers did not actually want to be assigned to Bomber Command but, thats where most recruits were needed and the RAF settled that argument pretty quickly.

Those selected for pilot training were screened for their suitability for fighter or bomber assignments.

He was assigned to navigation training and, served as a navigator on a Lancaster, including a stint with 106 Squadron whose CO  was a certain

Wing Cdr Guy Gibson!!

He survived the war but, rarely spoke about his experience of operational flying. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must have been like.

His comments about Gibson were interesting.  He described him as being short tempered, a bad person to cross and, definitely a case of "wee man" syndrome. He also stated that whatever his personal characteristics were, Gibson was a first rate CO, held in great respect and, a man who would move heaven and earth for the welfare of his crews.

 

John

Interesting.

My Father came over from Dublin in 1945 and signed up.

He served for a time  under Douglas Bader, and he said very much the same about him...

My father technically qualified for his WW2 service medal, but never put in for it, as he was still training when the war ended and felt he didn't deserve it.

[-Ian-]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:51 PM, EwenS said:

 

 

I recently came across the 1939 list of reserved occupations and the ages from which it applied to them.

http://anguline.co.uk/Free/Reserved.pdf

 

Very interesting, never seen that list before. One of my grandfathers was in a reserved occupation, a glass maker. He attempted to volunteer for the RAF when the war started but was rejected on that basis, would have been in his late 30s in 1939..

 

Skimming through that list with the minimum ages, I wonder what proportion of men in their 30s were in reserved occupations, wouldn't be surprised if it was more than 50%.

Edited June 30, 2021 by -Ian-

[Robin]

Hi John.

You also make a valid point.  Being conscripted for National Service was an episode of history, and dependent on your date of birth you were either lucky or unlucky, I was unlucky in that I was called up, but I was lucky in that I went into the RAF, a move that decided my future way of life.  When I completed my 2 years Service, I joined the Civil Service in the Ministry of Defence and for the next 35 years I was still part of the Military.  Luckily, I spent most of this time working for the RAF and was able to get many hours of flying in a wide variety of aircraft.  Since retiring over 20 years ago I am still involved with the RAF doing charity work, unfortunately age has caught up with me and I am not as mobile as I was.  However, this did not prevent me attending a Service of Remembrance last Saturday for an Australian Spitfire pilot who was killed in June 1944 when his aircraft crashed as he was returning from a "Rhubarb" sortie chasing 'V1 flying bombs'.    Robin.      

[RichG]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:52 AM, Black Knight said:

as an aside; conscription was never introduced in Northern Ireland, for various reasons

2. per capita, N.I. was offering up more than its share of volunteers

My father, as a 19 year old from County Down, proudly volunteered to serve his country and joined the Royal Air Force in 1940 arriving in Liverpool during an air raid. Did his basic training at RAF Squires Gate (now Blackpool Airport) - as a young single man who may well have kissed the Blarney Stone, Dad loved Blackpool...  - and I gather it was here that they were streamed into trades. Before signing up he had been to secretarial college and he was already a touch-typist and he was also a crack-shot (ultimately he shot for the RAF team at Bisley), so rather reassuringly he was selected for aircrew as a Wireless Operator / Air Gunner. He went on to spend most of his life in the RAF (with a gap of a couple of years in the late '50s care of a Minister of Defence called Sandys) finally retiring in 1976.  Unsurpisingly he was always known as "Paddy" - even by my mum! I remember him telling me that many of his service friends were from what was then called Éire (now more correctly the Republic of Ireland) who had also volunteered. He did much of his advanced training on the Vickers Wellington for which he told me, on the origin of its RAF nickname "Wimpey",  actually stood for "We Import More Paddies Every Year"! 

 

Rich

Edited June 30, 2021 by RichG