Modelling Safety

[raafbloke]

G'day folks,

                   I've just finished setting up a new modelling room in a converted shed near my house. It would be a 'granny flat' if it had running water, but then, I don't have a granny!

My concern is I've just discovered there is no physical way for me to install a fume cabinet/extractor. The shed was lined on the outside with brick and a builder has told me that fitting an extractor would be difficult and cost ten arms and legs!

So, chaps, I need some advice on respirators. I can set up a paint booth but it won't have any kind of extraction. 

I haven't got a clue about respirators, apart from the ones we used to use in the RAAF, many years ago and they were terrible, plus expensive, I guess.

Even though I try to use only water based paints, like Vallejo, I reckon it's best to avoid breathing in any kind of paint or dust particles. Like I do some resin work and I've heard that's problematic.

So, using your collective wisdom, could I get the lowdown on what kind of respirator best suits modellers? Bearing in mind I'm in the colonies, Australia... I guess it should be a well known 'name' brand that's widely available.

Also, I have a beard, does this present a problem?

Any advice or examples for me to look at would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, 

raafbloke

Bill Halliwell

Tasmania 

[dromia]

I use a 3M 7500 half mask with replaceable particle and vapour filters, very comfortable and no smells.

 

Have mine for over ten years worn almost daily and still going strong, just replace the filters when needed.

 

I'm a glasses wearer and they sit on it fine and my Optivisor fits comfortably over the straps.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

You can get recirculating air carbon filters. It was discussed on BM many years ago. Sounds like it could be a possible solution, if it still exists

 

 

[little-cars]

9 hours ago, raafbloke said:

G'day folks,

                   I've just finished setting up a new modelling room in a converted shed near my house. It would be a 'granny flat' if it had running water, but then, I don't have a granny!

My concern is I've just discovered there is no physical way for me to install a fume cabinet/extractor. The shed was lined on the outside with brick and a builder has told me that fitting an extractor would be difficult and cost ten arms and legs!

So, chaps, I need some advice on respirators. I can set up a paint booth but it won't have any kind of extraction. 

I haven't got a clue about respirators, apart from the ones we used to use in the RAAF, many years ago and they were terrible, plus expensive, I guess.

Even though I try to use only water based paints, like Vallejo, I reckon it's best to avoid breathing in any kind of paint or dust particles. Like I do some resin work and I've heard that's problematic.

So, using your collective wisdom, could I get the lowdown on what kind of respirator best suits modellers? Bearing in mind I'm in the colonies, Australia... I guess it should be a well known 'name' brand that's widely available.

Also, I have a beard, does this present a problem?

Any advice or examples for me to look at would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, 

raafbloke

Bill Halliwell

Tasmania 

If you have a glass window  that is handily placed, then you can get a sheet of glass/Perspex with the right sized hole cut in it. Then put a louvered front on the outside  to keep insects etc on the outside when it's not in use.

Paul

 

 

 

[dogsbody]

When I started using my airbrush last year, I bought a small 3-speed fan to put in the window of my basement room. The window has two windows, the inside one and the outside one. This is needed up here, on The Backside of Beyond, as it gets cold as frig during the winter and the two windows help keep out the cold. These are sliding windows so one side can be opened. The open side also has a screen to keep little critters out.

The fan worked great. I was only spraying acrylic paints that don't have strong odours, but my missus can smell squirrel flatulence from across the street, but she didn't smell the paint.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[raafbloke]

G'day Dromia, Foghorn, Dogsbody, Little Cars and anyone I may have missed.

                                                                                                                                  I might seem like an ungrateful so and so, but I promise I'm not. I'm very late with this response and for that I apologise. It turned out the renovation on my modeling room took a lot longer than I estimated. I didn't account for money, drinking time, grocery shopping and odd jobs for my Better Half. I explored all of your suggestions and I decided to go with a 3M half face respirator in the 7500 range, the 7503 for a 'fathead' like me. The fit is fantastic and after I got used to it I hardly know it's there. So, thanks very much Dromia for the tip. And, I managed to get my order in before all the respirators started flying off the shelves on account of the dreaded 'youknowwhat'. 

I have been using your other blokes' tips for adapting my one window pane for an exhaust fan, however, the space in there is limited by my ever growing stash which has definitely gone 'SABLE' on me. I got the term SABLE from an elderly modeller in the US who's wife came up with this acronym, it stands for: Stash Acquisitions Beyond Life Expectancy. I thought it was an absolute hoot so, I asked permission to use it. 

I can't afford a purpose built spray booth but I've got an old cooktop filtered extraction fan assembly. I'm not handy with gear like that so, now I'm waiting on a mate to try and fix up a fibreboard 'shell' that will take the extractor fan thingy. Right now I take my model bits that need paint out on to our decking and when the wind is dead calm I spray in the direction of a small, crappy bit of the garden which has builders' rubble underneath it. Thanks to the respirator, I can do tiny paint applications on the sprue trees in my room into the framework where the extractor thing will go. The excess, spill, paint is too small to worry about as long as I'm wearing the respirator.

That's probably way too much info, but you have to forgive me if I waffle on, I used to write for a living and get paid by the paragraph, so I can't help it. If my comments get too long or boring just tell me to 'shut it' and I will  

 

I really will have to get on to this chat board more often. It was really encouraging for so many folk give good advice to a complete stranger, and to me, an Antipodean at that!

Before I sign off, I just want to mention that I've posted on another part of this board about my desperate search for a conversion set for a 1/72 DHC Mk 7 Caribou kit to make it into a Mk 4 as flown by the RAAF. Also, I'm after a plastic 1/72 Vickers Viscount 800 series or a conversion set to make a 700 series Viscount into an 800 series, specifically, an 816 and an 836 model Viscount as flown by the RAAF from 1964. They were to be a part of our RAAF 100th anniversary multiple build, last year, but we just couldn't find either. I don't know this site well enough to tell you where, exactly, I've posted but the requests are in here somewhere. There's a modest 'finders fee' that might get you a few pints or, once I get all my stash on the ScaleMates site, I'm open to a swap of a kit for the conversion sets I'm after. Most of my stash is WW2 military, Allied mostly, concentrating on aircraft but now I'm getting into a bit of armour and, oddly, some submarines which, I've discovered are a relatively simple build but the trick is the weathering. There I go banging on again. 

I'll get out of your way now. 

Cheers, and all the best you blokes. Take care and I'll get back here when I can. By the way, I love doing historical research so if anyone needs a hand with that sort of thing, drop me a message or an email to: [email protected] 

Bill Halliwell

RAAFbloke 

[Tijuana Taxi]

It should be easy enough to core drill a hole large enough for a 4 inch extractor hose.

Ok you have a brick outer wall, but so does my bathroom and the extractor fan was easy enough to install there.

 

Not sure why a builder would say it was so expensive, tool hire place would have something suitable to hire for the day.

You could then build a spray booth or from all the arms and legs you saved buy a purpose made one.

 

[Jeff J]

So, are we concluding that some sort of spray booth/extractor system is essential even with a decent protective mask? Or can one 'get away' with just a mask and infrequent/light sessions with an airbrush?

 

I don't actually own and airbrush (I'll start a separate thread for that question!), but the finishes achievable with one look fabulous so I'm really tempted!

[Tijuana Taxi]

I would say it depends very much on the mediums you intend using.

Admittedly no particles are good if inhaled, but some are downright dangerous.

 

Maybe say what you will be spraying and then better advice can be given as to what might be the safe minimum requirement.

[Jeff J]

1 minute ago, Tijuana Taxi said:

I would say it depends very much on the mediums you intend using.

Admittedly no particles are good if inhaled, but some are downright dangerous.

 

Maybe say what you will be spraying and then better advice can be given as to what might be the safe minimum requirement.

It's a good point and just after posting that then going to bed I thought "I should have mentioned which sort of paint I was going to use!"

 

For the safety aspect I would be spraying acrylic, not enamel paint.

[Tijuana Taxi]

20 hours ago, Jeff J said:

It's a good point and just after posting that then going to bed I thought "I should have mentioned which sort of paint I was going to use!"

 

For the safety aspect I would be spraying acrylic, not enamel paint.

 

Safety is your own responsibility and probably unwise to listen to uninformed views.

No doubt some people use nothing apart from a cut out box to stop overspray.

 

I use acrylics with a fairly decent spray booth vented outside, but no mask.

Should probably wear a respirator as well, but my choice is not to for my short airbrushing sessions.

 

Only you can decide what precautions or risks you feel are acceptable

 

[colin]

Can't really understand why your builder said he couldn't put a vent in,with diamond core drills available nowadays brick/concrete is not a problem. Is it a access issue

[ckw]

21 hours ago, Jeff J said:

For the safety aspect I would be spraying acrylic, not enamel paint.

Don't forget it's not just the paint but whatever you might be using to thin the paint and clean up - some of these fluids can be quite nasty.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[jackroadkill]

I made an extractor out of a five gallon drum, a USB computer cooling fan and a length of soft aluminium ducting.  I just chuck the ducting out of the window (or, if it's cold, the letterbox; my better half loves this....) and get spraying.  I spray my enamels pretty much right in front of the fan and can work all day without feeling any ill effects.

 

Very cheap, very simple and very effective.  The only disadvantage is that it looks like something that W. Heath Robinson might have dreamed up whilst in the throes of a very bad trip.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

My tuppence worth is that unless you want overspray on everything else in your shed, you're going to need some form of ventilation. Even if you are masked and suited up in chemical warfare gear all that atomised paint is just going to hang in the air and eventually settle on everything. You really want to find a way to clear the air in the shed or by the time you've painted your 6th model everything in there is going to have a dusty layer which doesn't wipe off.

[Bertie McBoatface]

10 hours ago, jackroadkill said:

I made an extractor out of a five gallon drum, a USB computer cooling fan and a length of soft aluminium ducting.  I just chuck the ducting out of the window (or, if it's cold, the letterbox; my better half loves this....) and get spraying.  I spray my enamels pretty much right in front of the fan and can work all day without feeling any ill effects.

 

Very cheap, very simple and very effective.  The only disadvantage is that it looks like something that W. Heath Robinson might have dreamed up whilst in the throes of a very bad trip.

 

Mine is very similar in style. I used a big plastic storage box rather than a drum (easy to cut) and a kitchen extractor fan (cheap and powerful) with a length of 6" flexible plastic ducting going out of the window. The volatile thinners etc go out of the window but the particles of paint, which are dried well before they get to the end of the ducting get trapped in the creases by the turbulent flow at the edges of the duct. The first three feet of the ducting is filthy dusty but the output end is clean, which I take to mean there's no need for a filter to protect the environment.

 

 

Ta dah!

[Dave Swindell]

13 hours ago, jackroadkill said:

(or, if it's cold, the letterbox; my better half loves this....)

I'll bet your postie loves you too

 

[jackroadkill]

4 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

 

The first three feet of the ducting is filthy dusty but the output end is clean, which I take to mean there's no need for a filter to protect the environment.

 

My thinking exactly.

 

2 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

I'll bet your postie loves you too

 

 

The paint is a better option than my dog, who enjoys removing postie's fingers, if the opportunity arises....!

[Dave Swindell]

6 minutes ago, jackroadkill said:

The paint is a better option than my dog, who enjoys removing postie's fingers, if the opportunity arises....!

If you're spraying red paint when he delivers, will he know the difference?

[Dave Swindell]

19 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

If you're spraying red paint when he delivers, will he know the difference?

Also, you can have a Red Letter Day any day you want

 

[raafbloke]

G'day to all you great blokes who chipped in with advice. Like I said before, I don't get many chances to spend time on this chat board but I will soon. We've managed to finish our long-planned, over-budget, over-time multiple build for the Centenary of the RAAF. 

We were overwhelmed by all the advice and assistance we received from folk on this and other aviation chat boards. 

Thank you all, so much!

 

So, I eventually did cave and got myself an off the shelf spray booth. I saw them on special and made the buy. 

G'day there, Bertie, I wish I'd seen your ingenious 'design' for a home made spray booth before I bought the little unit. That's brilliant.

In fact I'm going to use your inspiration and do one myself as I've just committed to building the Hobby Boss 1/32 Liberator and that kite has a wing span just over a metre! So a big plastic box with a second hand fan at the back will be just perfect for spraying those huge wings and the fuselage.

 

After you blokes helped out with your comments, I did a lot more reading about the risks of paint overspray for hobbyists. Even with true, all water, based paints the inhalation of paint spray doesn't have a good outcome. Lacquers and enamels; even worse.

I've just left Mike with a big thank you comment for his excellent review of that Liberator kit. It's one of the best kit reviews I've ever read. I felt a lot better about 'pulling the pin' and buying the kit. Sure, it has its issues with the wing assemblies but it's much better on my pension than other 1/32 Liberator kits that can be over AUD$200 more. I was interested to note that I paid exactly the same price that Mike quoted in his 2019 review. (150 pounds) 

 

I hope you're coping with your heatwave. I was in London back in '97 and it got over 33 deg. C. It was oppressive.

Luckily, down here in Tasmania, we don't have savage hot summers like the 'big island' to our north. The trade off is we have cold winters.

At the end of last week we were getting down to -2.6 C (wind chill) overnight.  

 

I'll get out of your way now; I hope to be on this board more often in future. All the best to everyone.

Cheers, Bill Halliwell

raafbloke

[dogsbody]

3 hours ago, raafbloke said:

At the end of last week we were getting down to -2.6 C (wind chill) overnight.  

 

You should try some of our winter temps. -35C with a windchill of -45C is sometimes our daytime high.

 

 

 

 

Chris