E class destroyers ww2

[laurie82]

Hi guys I’ve strayed over from the world afv and I’m hoping someone will be able to help me. My grandfather served on HMS Express and was killed when they struck a mine when on operations in the North sea, I’ve been asked to make a model of his ship but can only find a 1/700 scale kit ,does anyone know if there is a larger scale kit out there as the the 1/700 kit is quite tiny.  Any help will be greatly appreciated who knows it might spark a new  interest for me!

[Our Ned]

The closest in injection-molded plastic is probably the old Frog 1/500 scale kit of HMS Hero, since reboxed and sold by, for example, Novo as HMS Hero, by ZTS Plastyk as an "I" class Destroyer, and by MisterCraft as HMS Ivanhoe, HMS Impulsive, HMS Hero and HMS Harvester.  Irrespective of the boxing, the plastic is the same - although the moulds have, I'm sure, got somewhat "tired" over the years since 1964 (!) when Frog first produced the kit.  Antics appears to have the Mistercraft kits for sale - https://anticsonline.uk/Category/Mirage-Hobby-Glencoe-Mister-craft_N1452

 

"Closest" is relative, but it depends on how accurate a replica you plan to make - Express was six feet shorter overall than Hero (not too significant in this scale) and had a differently-shaped bridge front.  When Express was mined, she was fitted for minelaying; that meant the forward set of torpedo tubes and the foremost and aft-most 4.7" guns had been landed, boats were stowed differently to those in Hero, and mine rails were fitted on each side running from the after funnel to the stern.  Earlier, the after torpedo tube mounting had been replaced by a single 3" anti-aircraft gun and the mainmast had been landed.  There are several photos of Express after she was mined which show some of these changes - eg https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205135017.

 

If you're confortable with resin, white metal and photo-etch, Atlantic Models produce HMS Glowworm in 1/350 scale (at £75 or so, over ten times the cost of the Mistercraft kits, albeit a much more detailed kit) - https://atlanticmodels.net/white ensign range kits/1-350 scale kits/.  Glowworm was a near sister of Hero, so most of the same differences described above would need consideration (although her bridge front was similar to that of Express).

Edited June 15, 2021 by Our Ned
Forgot to include a link!

[laurie82]

Thanks for the information on available kits and on Express herself it’s certainly given me a start going forward, much appreciated.

[GrzeM]

Very good kit of HMS Express is available in 1/700 from Polish AJM in resin.

Review (in Polish, but with lots of informative photos) is here:

http://modelarstwo.koszalin.pl/index.php/modele/okrety/365-test-shot-niszczyciele-hms-express-i-hms-fame-1-700-ajm-models

Building it needs some skill and patience, but the kit is a real first-class.

[dickrd]

9 hours ago, GrzeM said:

Very good kit of HMS Express is available in 1/700 from Polish AJM in resin.

Review (in Polish, but with lots of informative photos) is here:

http://modelarstwo.koszalin.pl/index.php/modele/okrety/365-test-shot-niszczyciele-hms-express-i-hms-fame-1-700-ajm-models

....., but the kit is a real first-class.

Sorry but from what I see in those photos I have to disagree with you there. And of course the fit of this kit is wrong for HMS Express in 1940 which is what Laurie needs. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by dickrd

[GrzeM]

2 hours ago, dickrd said:

Sorry but from what I see in those photos I have to disagree with you there. And of course the fit of this kit is wrong for HMS Express in 1940 which is what Laurie needs. 

You mean accuracy or moulding quality? I'm not an expert in maritime modelling, so of course I may be wrong in judgement here. Gladly hear your opinion.

[Selwyn]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:23 AM, GrzeM said:

You mean accuracy or moulding quality? I'm not an expert in maritime modelling, so of course I may be wrong in judgement here. Gladly hear your opinion.

As he is looking for a scale larger than1/700 in his original post the issue is academic anyway!

 

Selwyn

[GrzeM]

3 hours ago, Selwyn said:

As he is looking for a scale larger than1/700 in his original post the issue is academic anyway!

 

Selwyn

True, but as far as I know there is no E-class kit bigger than 1/700.

[dickrd]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:23 AM, GrzeM said:

You mean accuracy or moulding quality? I'm not an expert in maritime modelling, so of course I may be wrong in judgement here. Gladly hear your opinion.

I see that I owe you an answer: accuracy 

 

[GrzeM]

Thanks!

But such a small photos doesn't clarify much for me. Except the rangefinder and gun director control tower are visibly too small.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Given the relationship of funnel heights compared to bridge and other structures, the whole bridge appears undersized.

 

The aft Carley Floats should be mounted on skid frames rather than lashed to the bulkheads (implying that the frames are entirely missing).

The platform between the funnels is too short fore and aft and apparently shouldn't have a searchlight on it, whilst the platform aft the funnels is too tall compared to the funnels.

 

In profile view, the real ship and the model look substantially different in fact.

[Our Ned]

Whilst I agree that the proportions of bridge, platforms and funnels on the kit look wrong, according to the instructions seen at https://www.super-hobby.com/products/British-Destroyer-Type-E-HMS-EXPRESS-H-61.html, there's no searchlight between the funnels in the kit (the objects visible in the photo are representations of the quadruple 0.5" mountings), and the frames for the Carley Floats are provided.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Our Ned
Typo

[dickrd]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:49 PM, GrzeM said:

Thanks!

But such a small photos doesn't clarify much for me. Except the rangefinder and gun director control tower are visibly too small.

 

If you click on my images you get to the host Flickr page. Using the downward pointing arrow bottom right you can then download the image to your PC on which you will then be able to expand the images to a large size.

 

As others have noted, the model’s bridge seems to be the wrong height in relation to the forward funnel ie that the bridge is too low. To my mind this alone results in a less than first class representation of the appearance of the ship. Express’s As Fitted plans show exactly how high the bridge was in relation to the forward funnel – essentially the same height:

 

A knock-on effect is that the model’s 20mm platforms either side of the bridge and signal deck extending aft from them appear almost at B gun deck level whereas in reality they were a half deck higher:

 

 

Staying on structural issues in this area of the ship, the model’s forecastle deck does not appear to extend far enough aft. It seems to end level with the aft face of the bridge. In practice it extended aft of the base of the foremast almost to the base of the skirt of the forward funnel. (A knock-on effect is that the 27’ whaler appears incorrectly positioned):

The model’s forward funnel appears flat sided in photos of the kit’s parts and in the kit’s instructions at the link proved by Our Ned whereas in reality the forward funnel was rounded:

 

There are then various other things visible in the above photos of HMS Express herself:

 

-          There was no set of davits with motor boat on the port side beside the forward funnel.

-          The was no pair of carley floats on the portside of the aft funnel.

-          The shape of the kit’s surrounds to the quad 0.5” on the lt AA platform between the funnels does not match photos of HMS Express.

 

The forward mast of the model appears too tall and its yards to wide apart and perhaps too long.

 

In practice “1941-42” Express did not have an upper yard on completion of repairs September 1941 and until mid 1942:

 

 

The kit also seems to have the wrong radar aerial for 1941 through to mid 1942 (during which time Express had the Type 286 radar):

 

I could continue further aft but I hope that helps you.

Edited July 10, 2021 by dickrd

[GrzeM]

Thank you! This is very informative and interesting!

[Seahawk]

Thank you.  This will help me resist the temptation to replace my (unbuilt) 1/600 Airfix A-I destroyers with (unbuilt) IBG 1/700 A-I destroyers, gaining brownie points all round.