Duxford to get a hotel on site

[Julien]

Well it seems the IWM Duxford will build a hotel on site, further IMHO destroying the airfield ?

 

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/new-hilton-hotel-imperial-war-20790055.amp?fbclid=IwAR0U_sFZLX3eQhfFso1g4GZMIbD2an1ksV96rt--rS1382UvpSJsgYvKhvM

 

Not great I think.

[Learstang]

It will be great if it brings a lot of money to the museum, though, both through increased tourism and the museum receiving money from the hotel as the landlord, which the article mentions. I, for one, would be tempted to book this hotel.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[dov]

No good idea. Money is not all. The museum will be hit by missing European visitors, as me and our family due to Brexit.

Happy modelling 

[ckw]

3 minutes ago, dov said:

Money is not all

No, but unfortunately required in large quantities to maintain aircraft flying or static.

 

Is this a bad thing? A lot will depend on exactly where it is located. On the positive side it may offer an interesting new photography position.

 

I would image the focus will be on tour groups rather than family holidays - this is a big business, esp. for the US market. Just look at how many visitors at a big show are part of a tour group.

 

What strikes me as odd is why did they move Flying Legends if this was in the pipeline - I am certain they could fill that hotel at premium rates years in advance for the Legends weekend!

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Seahawk]

That’s a very courageous (or honest) company name for the applicant.  It’s virtually impossible not to misread one letter of it.

[bentwaters81tfw]

I'm surprised they didn't want to put it on the Land Warfare Hall site.

[ckw]

7 minutes ago, Beermonster1958 said:

I believe Duxford hosts flying events other than Flying Legends?

Of course - but Legends was the jewel in the crown and certainly had the largest proportion of visitors from abroad. Either way, I'm sure it will be a success.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Julien]

They also did a good job of getting rid of non flying events at the museum, turning away revenue

[Paul J]

Looks like a blot on the landscape. Hideous design and what next? More developments and gradual decline of flying with nimbys complaining about the noise and what if something tragic happened? Nah!  It will ruin the skyline of the area,  OK so it will attract big revenue for the IWM. But thats about all as far as positives .

[Agent K]

9 hours ago, Julien said:

Well it seems the IWM Duxford will build a hotel on site, further IMHO destroying the airfield ?

 

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/new-hilton-hotel-imperial-war-20790055.amp?fbclid=IwAR0U_sFZLX3eQhfFso1g4GZMIbD2an1ksV96rt--rS1382UvpSJsgYvKhvM

 

Not great I think.

 

Not at all and this has been in planning for 5 years or more, it's not recent news.

 

The whole point is to provide more income to IWM Duxford to ensure preservation of the site and airfield, quite the opposite to what you suggest. The planned location will be well out of the way of the historic buildings too.

 

Also it is there far more than to provide accommodation to airshow attendees 3 times a year. It will very much I imagine be used for conferences and other events too throughout the year. With it's position next to AirSpace then you have quite a destination venue for said conferences and such, and again this will bring in welcome funding to IWM.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Agent K

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I have no idea what IWM's master plan actually is. They've driven away most of the existing revenue sources and announce increasingly bizarre and tenuous ways to replace it. Their curators alienate the overwhelming majority of those who go to the place, and the kick out Europe's premier historic airshow thinking they can do better themselves on that key date - seemingly without realising that those they just kicked out own most of the toys which would do much of the display flying at their new airshow and need them for the relocated original one, and those same kicked-out people also have all the contacts to get the best of the toys they don't own to the relocated premier historic airshow - all the while acting very confused and incoherent about the Land Warfare Museum too. One might be forgiven for wondering if they actually know what they're doing.

[junglierating]

8 hours ago, Learstang said:

It will be great if it brings a lot of money to the museum, though, both through increased tourism and the museum receiving money from the hotel as the landlord, which the article mentions. I, for one, would be tempted to book this hotel.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

First impressions Im with you mate .....depends where it gets plonked....lets face it massive a/c hangars are a bit of a blot on the landscape....as long as all the metrics have been thought off then I think its a plan 😉

[bentwaters81tfw]

Thought you had to get 4 houses on a site before you could have a hotel?

Oh, silly me, what am I thinking? I've got it all back to front.................................

 

Give it time............

[IanC]

48 minutes ago, Agent K said:

 

The whole point is to provide more income to IWM Duxford to ensure preservation of the site and airfield, quite the opposite to what you suggest. The planned location will be well out of the way of the historic buildings too.

 

 

Exactly that. The IWM gets less than 50% of its income from Government grant-in-aid. The rest comes from sponsorship, donations and revenue.

 

As with so many others, Covid has had a terrible impact on the income of museums, including the nationals, and this development will be welcome news.

[iainpeden]

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies sums up the concerns the volunteers hear on a daily basis at Duxford in particular about the direction IWM is taking. Please remember that all Duxford decisions are made by London based (London centric) staff. A few points:

The plans have been in place for quite awhile now with planning permission having to be reapplied for due to mistakes made by the local authority; nothing sinister but Covid got in the way of the consultation process.

The planned site is behind the Air/Space Hangar - as far as I can make out it's on the coach/overspill car park. I think it's lower than Air Space. Apparently the hotel is being built upside down to the usual plan with bar and restaurant on the top floor.

Flying Legends -  financial agreement could not be found as to how much DX got for hosting it therefore it moved. I have no further details.

Land Warfare Hall - unsure as to the current plans - I had heard (officially) that 2025 was the date for demolition but that might have changed. My concern is the apparent agreement that IWM have with the proposed mega AFV museum in the south of Arizona which will mean that much will go west over the pond.

Powers that be want to get back to the whole historical airfield experience  idea - hence an idea to have the main gate as the entrance. (yes I can see all sorts of problems there too)

Conservation: currently done (IWM stuff) in H5. There is a new conservation and manufacturing building approved (I think) for west of Land Warfare which will allow a very interesting new type to be made at DX, but also frees up H5 for ?????? (my speculation is displaced Land Warfare exhibits.

 

So, for those of you with concerns (and you are definitely not alone) write to John Brown, who is DX CEO AND the Trustees at Lambeth. (Please don't mention me because I want to keep being allowed to volunteer there!

 

Lastly, the IWM staff employed at DX love the place, are exceptionally knowledgeable, and work very hard behind the scenes to boost visitor experience; they too suffered furlough and on-going uncertainty.

 

[Graham Boak]

Given that "if anything tragic happened" that involved the hotel then this would be on the crowd side of the flight line.  In which case the hotel would be irrelevant to any resulting publicity.

 

If it is lower than the Aerospace hangar and positioned behind the crowd, then I don't see a problem there either.

 

Its looks are a matter of taste, I've seen worse, and at an airshow I wouldn't be looking in that direction anyway.  Whether it would be large enough for a significant number of those spectators willing to attend I doubt, particularly bearing in mind what would likely be a priority given to attendees, special guests, etc.  It will be VIPs only in the top floor bar/restaurant during the show.

[Paul J]

So, if they plan to build this carbuncle on the car /coach park, where will all the supposed hotel customers and general public visiting the museum  be able to park pray tell me!!!!????? Over the road and make a trek across that bridge? I fear that a lot of regular visitors will be driven away and only the hotel customers being the visitors... making it quite 'clicky'.

 

By the way, I see the images in the link at top were by a company called 'propiteer'  more like PROFITEERS!!!!!

 

AND I don't think aircraft hangars a a blot on the landsacpe, they are a sign of a good airfield. Just because ships and cars are left outside without safe covering. But modern ugly hotel and office blocks are 'blots'

[iainpeden]

@Paul J - it's going on land to the back of Air Space and the ARC building and car parking sufficient for the hotel is planned into design. Part of the site is overflow car parking rather than everyday use. "That" bridge has just been renewed.

 

It could be argued that the Airspace and American Air Museum are architecturally at odds with the historic site................. - I will leave it at that.

 

I also think there is a general lack of understanding, not through individual ignorance but due to a complicated funding formula, on how our national museums are funded; year on year the government grants are reducing and trustees and management have to find more and more sources of revenue. I'd liken the DX situation to that of multiple cricket and football grounds where the owners have built hotels to maximise revenue.

[spruecutter96]

Surely the hotel will be fully-booked for events (apparently now a maximum of two airshows per annum and 10 "air days" during 2021 - COVID regulations permitting) and virtually empty for the rest of the year?

 

I was told a few years ago that, during January and February, the museum can go several days without a single visitor.  No-one wants to walk around a museum the size of Duxford in sub-zero temperatures.

 

Chris. 

[Agent K]

8 hours ago, spruecutter96 said:

Surely the hotel will be fully-booked for events (apparently now a maximum of two airshows per annum and 10 "air days" during 2021 - COVID regulations permitting) and virtually empty for the rest of the year?

 

I was told a few years ago that, during January and February, the museum can go several days without a single visitor.  No-one wants to walk around a museum the size of Duxford in sub-zero temperatures.

 

Chris. 

 

Not sure why you think that? hotels tend to be open year round!!!, it's not just for IWM Duxford visitors, and given the proximity to Cambridge and the M11 I'd suspect it will do quite well for business.

 

As someone who travels a lot (or did till March last year) around the world, then a nice hotel coupled with Airspace (for events) and proximity to airports (Stansted), Cambridge city and all it's attractions and the surrounding infrastructure, the location would be quite appealing year round.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Agent K

[Alan P]

Either way, normals won't be able to afford Hilton prices, so it'll still be the Travelodge up the A11 for me 😁

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

32 minutes ago, Alan P said:

Either way, normals won't be able to afford Hilton prices, so it'll still be the Travelodge up the A11 for me 😁

 

To be honest as a typical Premier Inn-type customer with fairly modest expectations, the last Hilton I checked into I was at the front desk complaining about the revolting state of the room 10 minutes later, finding out it was "one of the nicest they had" and checking out to find another hotel within 20 minutes of arriving. The only thing the Hilton brand assures is a fairly high price. The quality is, much like a modern Mercedes, rumoured and assumed rather actually observed in all cases.

[spruecutter96]

3 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

much like a modern Mercedes, rumoured and assumed rather actually observed in all cases.

I was told that Mercedes moved their primary production to a East-European country about 15 years ago and the build-quality of their products nose-dived as a result. Still, at least it saved them a bit of money, eh?

 

Chris.  

[ckw]

1 hour ago, spruecutter96 said:

I was told that Mercedes moved their primary production to a East-European country about 15 years ago and the build-quality of their products nose-dived as a result

The East European country is not necessarily relevant. When Volkswagen acquired Skoda and invested in the East European plants, build quality improved enormously and Skoda consistently sits at or near the top of consumer satisfaction surveys. The problem either lies with inadequate investment in the production plants, poor management or both.

 

But as to Mercedes quality ... the number I see sat on the hard shoulder is really quite staggering. 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Agent K]

1 hour ago, spruecutter96 said:

I was told that Mercedes moved their primary production to a East-European country about 15 years ago and the build-quality of their products nose-dived as a result. Still, at least it saved them a bit of money, eh?

 

Chris.  

 

I have a lot of dealings with several East European countries, with operations in them, predominantly, Poland and Romania. In my case at least without doubt they are some of the hardest working, most intelligent and good people to have working for me. Whomever told you this, and apologies if it's somebody who is connected with the industry/Mercedes, as opposed to hearsay, I'm not convinced that the location of the manufacturing is the issue - if there is an issue.