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1/48 P-47D Thunderbolt, Tamiya+Eduard+etc.


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        Very nice Fuad. Your paint job is very convincing and the photography is great too.  I have both the bubble top and razorback in my stash but can't decide

what markings to do them in  (there are just so many).  Thanks for sharing this. You must be a prolific builder with all of your presentations.

 

 

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My god this is one awesome razorback! At first I thought it was all very simple, but looking at the chipping on the wing root, I think it couldn't have been done any better. Tail section is also really well painted and weathered. The only thing I would do differently is try and have a bit more of a smooth transition on the dust you applied to your wheels, as I feel like the sides would also get some contact with dirt and dust. But at this point I'm just being picky...

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I love it!  Great choice of schemes, love the colorful tail and I know it is a difficult paint job but it really came out great!  And nice family pics too.

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OK, Fuad- now yer just showing off! What's not to like? It's a P-47, it's a razorback, and it's got a sharkmouth! Your usual flawless attention to detail, and the metal scuffing/chipping is very characteristic for a Thunderbolt. One minor suggestion, and it is in no way meant to be a criticism of an outstanding model, but notice how the flap coves that are exposed when the flaps are lowered show the zinc chromate yellow primer? The leading edge of the upper flap surface that is exposed when the flaps are lowered should  also be finished in untinted zinc chromate primer. (Can you say take a perfect model and make it perfecter?) :giggle:

Mike

 

IIRC, when P-47's were painted at the factory, the flaps were up, so when they were lowered you would see the parts still in their primer coat that were covered when the upper and lower surfaces were painted with the exterior colors. 

Edited by 72modeler
corrected spelling
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37 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

OK, Fuad- now yer just showing off! What's not to like? It's a P-47, it's a razorback, and it's got a sharkmouth! Your usual flawless attention to detail, and the metal scuffing/chipping is very characteristic for a Thunderbolt. One minor suggestion, and it is in no way meant to be a criticism of an outstanding model, but notice how the flap coves that are exposed when the flaps are lowered show the zinc chromate yellow primer? The leading edge of the upper flap surface that is exposed when the flaps are lowered should  also be finished in untinted zinc chromate primer. (Can you say take a perfect model and make it perfecter?) :giggle:

Mike

 

IIRC, when P-47's were painted at the factory, the flaps were up, so when they were lowered you would see the parts still in their primer coat that were covered when the upper and lower surfaces were painted with the exterior colors. 

Yes, I agree with you. Logically, the upper part of the flaps should also be zinc chromate. But I did not find any photographic evidence of this and decided that perhaps zinc chromate would strongly decamouflage the base color when the flaps were opened.

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I know what you mean! It's almost impossible to find a genuine color photo from an angle that shows the leading edge of the flaps, and you can't go by restored aircraft...nobody was thinking about modelers when original  photos were taken, or there would be a lot more bomb bay, wheel bay, and cockpit photos out there! Bare metal Thunderbolts and Mustangs don't seem to have the upper leading edge of the flaps that are exposed when the flaps are fully  deployed painted with ZC primer, but IIRC the requirement went away when camouflage paint was deleted. NAA and Martin got approval to dispense with exterior ZC on camouflaged aircraft- one reason why  camouflaged Marauders especially show severe paint chipping and scuffing.

Mike

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Great looking P-47, the whole family looks impressive!

 

 

On 6/14/2021 at 6:12 PM, 72modeler said:

 One minor suggestion, and it is in no way meant to be a criticism of an outstanding model, but notice how the flap coves that are exposed when the flaps are lowered show the zinc chromate yellow primer? The leading edge of the upper flap surface that is exposed when the flaps are lowered should  also be finished in untinted zinc chromate primer. (Can you say take a perfect model and make it perfecter?) :giggle:

Mike

 

IIRC, when P-47's were painted at the factory, the flaps were up, so when they were lowered you would see the parts still in their primer coat that were covered when the upper and lower surfaces were painted with the exterior colors. 

 

I've never seen any evidence of the upper leading edge of the flaps being ZC, all the photos I've seen appear to be OD on factory painted aircraft. As for the wing, the area where the flaps retract has a panel which closes off the wing structure, so I would have though this would have been treated as an external surface and painted NG, but that's only guess work as I've never seen a period photo of this area. If you have any evidence otherwise I would be interested to see it.

 

 

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@Tbolt

 

Looking at the photos you posted, it is pretty obvious that the leading edge of the flap appears to be a different tone than the remainder of the flap, but being b&w photos, hard to tell the color- could just appear darker because the flaps are up most of the time and so would not fade nearly as much as the rest of the flap. Also, looking at the first photo and the photo of B4, it looks like the interior structures visible are the same dark tone as the flap leading edge, and the interior structures should have been coated with untinted ZC primer, so I would think would show as a lighter tone. Film? Filter? On page 27 of Maru Mechanic 41, there is a factory photo of a razorback P-47 that shows the wing without any control surfaces fitted, and the aileron and flap coves  look to be untinted primer. My thinking as to the leading edge of the flap surface that is covered by the uppersurface  being untinted zc primer, was that the flaps were most likely assembled as a separate component and if the exterior surfaces were painted with primer, then when the flaps were installed and the airplane given its camouflage paint, the flaps  would be up, and so the primer along the leading edge would not be covered. I  might well be wrong, as none of the photos you posted look to show this, and almost all of the photos in my P-47 references were taken from the front or side view, so that area of the deployed flaps is rarely seen. There are numerous photos of camouflaged B-25's and P-51's that show the same zc leading edge to the flaps, so I surmised (probably incorrectly) that camouflaged P-47's would show the same demarcation.

 

I certainly don;t have the  same Jug knowledge or references that you must undoubtedly have, so I guess I might have to do my camouflaged Jugs with the flaps up- or if down, with a fresher shade of the uppersurface color along the leading edge. Thank you for taking the time to find and post the photos.

Mike

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9 hours ago, 72modeler said:

@Tbolt

 

Looking at the photos you posted, it is pretty obvious that the leading edge of the flap appears to be a different tone than the remainder of the flap, but being b&w photos, hard to tell the color- could just appear darker because the flaps are up most of the time and so would not fade nearly as much as the rest of the flap. Also, looking at the first photo and the photo of B4, it looks like the interior structures visible are the same dark tone as the flap leading edge, and the interior structures should have been coated with untinted ZC primer, so I would think would show as a lighter tone. Film? Filter? On page 27 of Maru Mechanic 41, there is a factory photo of a razorback P-47 that shows the wing without any control surfaces fitted, and the aileron and flap coves  look to be untinted primer. My thinking as to the leading edge of the flap surface that is covered by the uppersurface  being untinted zc primer, was that the flaps were most likely assembled as a separate component and if the exterior surfaces were painted with primer, then when the flaps were installed and the airplane given its camouflage paint, the flaps  would be up, and so the primer along the leading edge would not be covered. I  might well be wrong, as none of the photos you posted look to show this, and almost all of the photos in my P-47 references were taken from the front or side view, so that area of the deployed flaps is rarely seen. There are numerous photos of camouflaged B-25's and P-51's that show the same zc leading edge to the flaps, so I surmised (probably incorrectly) that camouflaged P-47's would show the same demarcation.

 

I certainly don;t have the  same Jug knowledge or references that you must undoubtedly have, so I guess I might have to do my camouflaged Jugs with the flaps up- or if down, with a fresher shade of the uppersurface color along the leading edge. Thank you for taking the time to find and post the photos.

Mike

 

The second photo I posted is original colour and looks OD to me.

 

On the first photo as comparing the colour inside one of the access panels it's a very different shade to what is one the top forward section of the flap. As for that part of the flap looking different that's probably just the way the flap is being lit, but also look on the fuselage above the intercooler outlet there's a slightly darker shade of OD compared to the front of the fuselage.

 

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I'm not an expect on black and white film but in this photo we know the serial number on the fin is yellow and is quite a contrast to the OD on the fin now compare that to the flap and wing.

 

 

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On the fifth photo you can't do a comparison with the access panel because the inside of it is in full shade where as the fuselage and wing are not, so it's actually darker than some parts we know are OD. All you can do is compare it to the other parts of the flap and wing and the shade appear to be about the same using a colour picker even taking the weathering into account.

 

In this photo we can also see the serial number and the end of the flap. Now the end of the flap could be ZC or it could be NG, but either way it's noticeably lighter than the top of the flap.

 

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Of course like a lot of things that doesn't mean every single painted P-47 was the same.

 

As for the wing, many part were painted prior to assembly and it's hard to say exactly how they were painted, like many aircraft the fuselage and wings were painted separately before being assembled. I found this photo which is interesting, but I wish it was in colour! We can see that the flaps appear painted as does the part of the wing where the aileron attaches but the rest of the wing is unpainted. It might be ZC, though it looks darker than the ZC I've seen in all the other factory photos, but if we go by the fact that the upper forward part of the flap is OD then I would have thought the flap were fully painted before being mounted on the wing so it could be ZC under there. Unfortunately I don't have the Maru Mechanic book, but I would love to see that photo.

 

view

 

I wish we could move this discussion rather than hijacking this thread.

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4 hours ago, Tbolt said:

The second photo I posted is original colour and looks OD to me...

Now I know exactly why you have such a status "Very Obsessed Member" 😁.  I am very glad for such attention, it is very useful for everyone. Thank you very much! 🤩

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