AGM-179 JAGM and Hellfire for UK Apache

[Slater]

It's curious that Brimstone wasn't mentioned. The only negative I can think of would possibly be that Brimstone is more expensive than the US weapons.

 

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-selects-jagm-for-apache

[wellsprop]

The AH-64E simply isn't designed for them. 

 

The UK has bought the AH-64E from the US government as a foreign military sale.

 

Therefore the UK is getting the US Army variant of the Apache. The Brimstone is not used by the US Army, therefore the AH-64E has not been designed to be compatible with the Brimstone.

 

The AH-64E has T700-GE-701 engines that produce just under 2000 shp each, rather than the WAH-64D's RTM322 which produce just under 2300 shp each and has superior engine governing. 

 

The AH-64E does not have Bowman radio (UK military radio), the WAH-64D does.

 

The AH-64E does not have flotation gear, the WAH-64D does.

 

The idea of buying from the US government was to bring the cost down. Instead the UK has ended up buying an aicraft that is less capable (it isn't integrated with current UK military systems) and Boeing will be very glad to charge through the nose to integrate all these extra systems onto the UK aircraft.

 

That said, the Apache is still the world's best attack helicopter, the UK just chose to go for a version that looked cheaper and easier to procure.

[junglierating]

11 hours ago, wellsprop said:

The AH-64E simply isn't designed for them. 

 

The UK has bought the AH-64E from the US government as a foreign military sale.

 

Therefore the UK is getting the US Army variant of the Apache. The Brimstone is not used by the US Army, therefore the AH-64E has not been designed to be compatible with the Brimstone.

 

The AH-64E has T700-GE-701 engines that produce just under 2000 shp each, rather than the WAH-64D's RTM322 which produce just under 2300 shp each and has superior engine governing. 

 

The AH-64E does not have Bowman radio (UK military radio), the WAH-64D does.

 

The AH-64E does not have flotation gear, the WAH-64D does.

 

The idea of buying from the US government was to bring the cost down. Instead the UK has ended up buying an aicraft that is less capable (it isn't integrated with current UK military systems) and Boeing will be very glad to charge through the nose to integrate all these extra systems onto the UK aircraft.

 

That said, the Apache is still the world's best attack helicopter, the UK just chose to go for a version that looked cheaper and easier to procure.

Well from my understanding all is not lot loss the DAS will be the same as the D model ....with obvious upgrades ....are you sure about Bowman ...I assume that will be included as a service modification package else it will be completely useless ...obviously Bowman will be replaced ....coz its umm difficult on occasion by a new item but from what I hear that could take sometime ....still in competition. 

[Slater]

All US Apaches are supposed to be eventually be re-engined with the more powerful GE T901 powerplant. Not sure if the UK is going this route?

 

https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/t901-turboshaft-engine

[wellsprop]

3 hours ago, junglierating said:

Well from my understanding all is not lot loss the DAS will be the same as the D model ....with obvious upgrades ....are you sure about Bowman ...I assume that will be included as a service modification package else it will be completely useless ...obviously Bowman will be replaced ....coz its umm difficult on occasion by a new item but from what I hear that could take sometime ....still in competition. 

 

Im absolutely certain that an off-the-shelf AH-64E does not have Bowman. The airframe the UK has bought are from the US government and they are US army variants. 

 

The UK will have to pay Boeing to integrate the Bowman to the AH-64E. 

 

1 hour ago, Slater said:

All US Apaches are supposed to be eventually be re-engined with the more powerful GE T901 powerplant. Not sure if the UK is going this route?

 

https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/t901-turboshaft-engine

 

I doubt the UK will pay for it. Potentially going with the CT7 would allow a common engine platform across a lot of the UK's rotary wing fleet (the Merlin could theoretically take a CT7, as could the Puma replacement AW149 or Black Hawk).

[Slater]

This was the original request from almost six years ago. Not sure if anything has been modified or upgraded, but it looks like all US avionics:

 

https://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/united_kingdom_15-50_0.pdf

[junglierating]

The UK will have to pay Boeing to integrate the Bowman to the AH-64E....obviously unless UK MoD try it themselves but we all know whst happens when they go that route.

Problem with govt to govt sales is that its a cheap option but if you want extra support or add on ....well of course sir but it will cost.

Obviously it will depend on the Bowman replacement timeframe and what the command want as a secure radio.

As for floatation gear as wellsprop mentioned....the D variant weren't modified until well in to the service life of the aircraft.

You can modify what you want service mods as opposed to industry mods are a potentially cheap and quick  way of introducing kit...but its a good idea to get industry to cover mod it ....however a/c mods processes are a tome in themselves.

Still probably cheaper that the WAH route.....LH took UK to the cleaners but they are going to pay for that now 

[11bravo]

On 6/8/2021 at 4:53 PM, wellsprop said:

The AH-64E simply isn't designed for them. 

 

The UK has bought the AH-64E from the US government as a foreign military sale.

 

Therefore the UK is getting the US Army variant of the Apache. The Brimstone is not used by the US Army, therefore the AH-64E has not been designed to be compatible with the Brimstone.

 

The AH-64E has T700-GE-701 engines that produce just under 2000 shp each, rather than the WAH-64D's RTM322 which produce just under 2300 shp each and has superior engine governing. 

 

The AH-64E does not have Bowman radio (UK military radio), the WAH-64D does.

 

The AH-64E does not have flotation gear, the WAH-64D does.

 

The idea of buying from the US government was to bring the cost down. Instead the UK has ended up buying an aicraft that is less capable (it isn't integrated with current UK military systems) and Boeing will be very glad to charge through the nose to integrate all these extra systems onto the UK aircraft.

 

That said, the Apache is still the world's best attack helicopter, the UK just chose to go for a version that looked cheaper and easier to procure.

From what I understand from a bud who works on these helos, the RTM322 had significant deficiencies with regard to TBO, fuel burn and general operating costs.   

 

With regard to weaponry, the US is equipping it's Apaches with the Spike NLOS system.   Gives it a major range increase over both Hellfire and Brimstone. 

[Slater]

The T901 will be in the 3000 shp class. Which should give a decent increase in performance.