Gamecock confusion?

[BillF67]

The Profiles publication for Gloster Gamecock has a 17 Sqn aircraft on the cover, J8408. Most of the mentions of this a/c associate it with 17 Sqn but the only pictures I can find put it in 23 Sqn markings during the short period 17 Sqn operated the type. Also, the cover illustration shows it with a Gauntlet insignia on the tail but this wasn’t used (I thought) until late 1936 after they had been equipped with Gloster Gauntlets. I’m new to researching so my resources are fairly limited. Can anyone shine a bit of light on these apparent anomalies please?

[Paul Thompson]

There's a profile of J8408, with the diamond on a red fin, in the colour section of Thetford and Lumsden's On Silver Wings, complete with the black zig-zag on both fuselage and top wing. Serials given for the period so equiped, Jan 1928 - Sep 1928, are J8405, J8408 and J8414. No photos of 17 Squadron examples anywhere that I can see. Doing a Google search only brings up photos of the Alleycat 1/32nd model - perhaps someone with the kit can say if it gives provenence for the markings? I thought I'd found one at https://modelwork.pl/topic/26616-gloster-gamecock-132-alley-catmontex/ That, however, turns out to be a monochrome photo of the 1/32nd model.  In short, it's a mystery.

 

Paul.

[Britman]

Looking at the model in the link it seems like the undercarriage is not loaded with the weight of the aircraft.

 

Keith

[rossm]

Air Britain give J8408 with 17 Squadron from Feb 1928 to May 1929.

 

The gauntlet is the official badge of 17 Squadron so may well have been used pre Gloster Gauntlet.

 

I haven't found any photos either.

[Ed Russell]

According to the RAF Heraldry Trust the gauntlet design was approved in October 1936, contemporaneous witheir new Gloster Gauntlet fighters so @BillF67 is quite correct. This would cast some doubt on the profile, which is hardly news!

 

http://www.rafht.co.uk/index.php/2016/06/09/17-sqn/

[BillF67]

I’m with Ed on this. The emblem was chosen because of the aircraft, not vice versa. I’m also thinking that the zigzag motif dates from late 1924? I’m not being overly picky on this; it’s because I plan on one of each 17 Sqn type (see an earlier topic I started). Getting a kit of each type is going well but markings are a pain. The best I have is that WW1 and up to 1924 - no specific markings so PC10(?) and doped linen. Silver for the various interwar types. Hurricane and Spitfire OK as standard Brit patterns. Postwar, again tricky until Phantoms then plain sailing😃. It’s the training a/c, Oxfords, Harvards, Martinets and Beaufighter TT causing me a problem. A Canberra PR7 is also a pain but hey - I’m getting there. Crying shame that the RAF Trainers aren’t as well served as RAAF!

[rossm]

5 hours ago, BillF67 said:

I’m with Ed on this. The emblem was chosen because of the aircraft, not vice versa.

 

I agree having read JDR Rawlings Fighetr squadrons of the RAF. "...............commemorates the type of aircraft the squadron was flying when the badge was awarded".

 

He also captions a photo of a Snipe in zig-zags ".......It was on these that it instituted the double black zigzag". I think the Pegasus Snipe had these markings.

 

I can scan you some photos of Beaufighter, Martinet and postwar Spitfire XVI including some in German markings pretending to be Me109s for a re-creation of the Amiens raid. There's a partial pic of an Oxford included in there too.

[BillF67]

I had a cunning plan, Rossm. I have a set of Bulldog decals. I’m hoping that if I photocopy these on to some water slide decal sheets then using som period number and letter fonts I can bridge things.🤞

[BillF67]

P.S. I’d appreciate photos of a Martinet and a Beaufighter Target Tug. VMT

[rossm]

36 minutes ago, BillF67 said:

P.S. I’d appreciate photos of a Martinet and a Beaufighter Target Tug. VMT

 

PM me an email address and give me a couple of days, I've books on Chivenor which contain such things.