Andrew Mackenzie Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Hi guys Does anyone have a colour reference for the red identification letters (squadron and aircraft ID) used in 1944 for RAF aircraft (88 Squadron Boston to be specific). Cheers, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Appears to be the same as the roundel red colour, though opinion might vary as to which is best suitable hobby paint for dull red. regards, Jack 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 With the third on Medium Sea Grey. The red colour is called Red, but is sometimes referred to as Dull Red to distinguish it from the brighter red of peacetime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Interesting observation in the mix of national insignia between the three. Middle one with early fin flash, right hand one with odd sized roundel centre and the grey code. Also I recal that AL963, the centre one, was the subject of the 1960s Airfix kit but with the later fin flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Sky Blue wheelhubs - that's a surprise. Note the wear on the rear of the propeller on the nearest aircraft. Plus the way the Dark Green misses the serial. Lots of nice detail in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 It looks like the area under the tailplanes of all three are in shadow but are not! The shadow goes the other way. I feel its the US drab green with a straight demarcation by the RAF(?) when they were repainted to UK standard colours of green / earth and around the serials and the same for the blue wheel caps being the U.S colours (Du Pont?) Bit confusing how ever. Still a very interesting picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 The shadow doesn't go the other way - look where it is on the ground. Placing a straight edge on this apparently Dark Green angle, and it hits the shadow on the ground at the right place for it to be the shadow of the tailplane- but this doesn't explain why the serial is sitting on a lighter patch of apparently Dark Earth. The sharp straight edge is not representative of any RAF camouflage pattern. I think we need some more photos to sort this one out. However if we are seeing a very odd patch of dark green, it appears to be a different hue to that on the rest of the aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 There are traces of touch-ups on AL690 near the base of the empennage, and on/around the rudder trim tab - the last one seems the same tint as around the serial. But those serials look really weird when zoomed in, even accounting for artifacts due to compression. - edit - I think some tried to outfox the censor. Number three has no serial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 The whole photo has a slightly strange look to it, there's the funny serials, the out of focus bloke in the foreground complete with lifejacket and the sharply focussed bloke behing the aircraft plus the aircrewman climbing out is half sharp and half fuzzy. Also the bloke with his head missing under AL683(?) doesn't ring true - his jacket seems to be JUST in front of the underside colour? I don't think we're seeing what the camera saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 The roundel variations seem to illustrate the ordered but not instant change-over from A1 to C1 roundels and flash. Zooming in throws up more detail, eg evidence of local paint patching around the roundel of the nearest machine. Equally interesting are the oddly painted roundels on the second and third machines. Not so much having stopped in mid-conversion as one might expect on a busy operational unit with other things on their plate, it looks as if the blue portion also had wandered off circular. There are other odd edges to the yellow as it was reduced from the size it was on the 4th machine in line. Overall a delightful shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 The image above come from Etienne Du Plessis' Flickr pages. A comment under it by @Troy Smith I believe sums it up, a squadron in the transition phase to new markings & touching ups being done with RAF colours over US equivalent shades & not quite matching gives us this variable shading. The chappy without a head is simply behind that aircraft. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) There are a series of colour and B&W photo's taken at 88 Sqn on the same day , I will look up the date, interesting shots of the transition of roundels and code colours , at least one photo shows the RH in red and the individual code still in grey and vis versa . The area under the stab is Dark Earth not Dark Green it just looks dark , in one photo of seven machines in a row you see 3 versions of the fin flash , original equal portions of red/white/blue, field modified with more blue added to reduce the white and the later fin flash when the C1 roundels added with equal red/blue with the narrow white band , interesting mix of markings , believe taken in May 42. Edited June 4, 2021 by Sydhuey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) All Douglas build DB-7B's in that picture, not even 6 mths old. AL690. AL693, AL721, AL775, other photo's show earlier Bostons as well in the Z series. Edited June 4, 2021 by Sydhuey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Mackenzie Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 Definitely some 'doctoring' going on in my view. AL680 (foreground plane) was assigned to 226 Sqdn - not 88 Sqdn as shown. It crashed on the disastrous Dieppe raid 19/08/42 http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=AL680 If the 2nd aircraft is AL693, that would be correct for 88 Sqdn - but the fin flash is wrong for that plane (a shown here https://airpages.ru/eng/img/a20_01.shtml). If it's AL683 it was assigned to 24 Sqdn SAAF and not 88 Sqdn at all! So, the censor's airbrush saw some judicial use on this pic I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 If it is a shadow,then why does it start above and slightly ahead of the tail plane leading edge root particularly on the second one along on AL 693 still wearing the equal proportioned fin flash yet to be updated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Andrew Mackenzie said: Definitely some 'doctoring' going on in my view. AL680 (foreground plane) was assigned to 226 Sqdn - not 88 Sqdn as shown. It crashed on the disastrous Dieppe raid 19/08/42 http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=AL680 If the 2nd aircraft is AL693, that would be correct for 88 Sqdn - but the fin flash is wrong for that plane (a shown here https://airpages.ru/eng/img/a20_01.shtml). If it's AL683 it was assigned to 24 Sqdn SAAF and not 88 Sqdn at all! So, the censor's airbrush saw some judicial use on this pic I reckon. No airbrushing , photo is as it looks , as I said earlier 3 types of fin flash in use at this time , May 42 as they transitioned to the later style with narrow white band , I have a series of colour and B&W photo's of 88 Sqn on that day that show all this and the shadow under the tail but its to much of a pain to post them I only post direct now not threw another site. 88 Sqn operated AL289, AL690, AL692, AL693, AL721, AL740 and AL775 and 13 Boston III's in the Z series in May 42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 If I expand the above serials on my iPad it appears that there are different ‘faint’ serial numbers underneath those ‘bold’ characters. Somethings not quite right to my eye, I’m favouring the censorship theory as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 More photos from, presumably, the same day here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=attlebridge&pageSize=60&media-records=all-records&style=list&filters[webCategory][Photographs]=on&filters[themeString][Royal+Air+Force+1939-1945%2C+Bomber+Command]=on I reckon the photo above is a crop from this one https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207810 but with serial numbers retouched and some funny sharpening of some bits. ROYAL AIR FORCE BOMBER COMMAND, 1942-1945.. © IWM (COL 194) IWM Non Commercial License 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) The serials I listed are straight off the 88 Sqn Operational Record history and match the serials on the pictures, the pictures I have are about 40+ MB high rez photo's and when you blow them up the serials are as clear as a bell. Edited June 4, 2021 by Sydhuey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Sydhuey said: The serials I listed are straight off the 88 Sqn Operational Record history and match the serials on the pictures, the pictures I have are about 40+ MB high rez photo's and when you blow them up the serials are as clear as a bell. I don't think anyone is doubting you, it's just not all of us have access to photos at that resolution so we've been struggling with what was posted above and our comments re funny looking serials relate to that. The image on the IWM site downloads at 42.7kb and you can pay for a hi-res version if you want one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 I've found this IWM photo, taken at the same time as the rest. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 Nice. That might account for the out-of-focus gentlemen actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix44 Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 03/06/2021 at 19:09, rossm said: The whole photo has a slightly strange look to it, there's the funny serials, the out of focus bloke in the foreground complete with lifejacket and the sharply focussed bloke behing the aircraft plus the aircrewman climbing out is half sharp and half fuzzy. Also the bloke with his head missing under AL683(?) doesn't ring true - his jacket seems to be JUST in front of the underside colour? I don't think we're seeing what the camera saw. The chap in the foreground is moving, that's all and the one without a head has ducked under the fuselage. The half fuzzy one is moving half of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 This seems to me to be simply a matter of exposure time and shutter movement. An interesting lesson in over-analysis of lower-quality reproductions on the net. (Guilty...) 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fukuryu Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 Are my eyes fooling me, or the second aircraft's underside looks more bluish than the rest? Maybe that visit to the eye doctor is long due... Agree that the fuzziness of some subjects is due to long-ish exposure times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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