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Monogram B-17G


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Did not have much build  time since my last posting due to a major sanding, masking, priming and paint exercise on a different much larger subject, but may post this at the end of todays update.

 

Done some work on parts of the bomb bay.

 

The bombs themselves of which there are only 4 in the kit, to be hung on the centre rack.

I have thought of scratch building the 2 side racks as well, but they will probably interfere with Monogram's wing-securing arrangement. (That's probably why they were omitted from the kit)

The catwalk was probably metal coloured, but I am not sure about the vertical bomb rack itself. It is often green on restored b-17's and some photographs show part green/part metal, but looking at some reports and footage of the Memphis Belle restoration where they went to great length and up to removing interior paint where not original, I think they show all metal coloured. So that is what they still are with some black painted parts simulating rubber anti slip on the catwalk. (some weathering still to be done)

 

spacer.png

 

Did some work on the bombs and tried to imitate the cast iron effect on the body with applied thinned Tamiya filler. Only to discover that on images they appear to be rather smooth. The very front of the Monogram bombs are quite crudely casted and the small fuses/detonators with the mini propellers...?? (really not sure how they are called or how they function...)  Anyway, I replaced them with more refined details from an accurate miniatures left over ordnance sprue. The fins are of course way too thick as well, but I did not want to spent any more time on these since they are mostly hidden away.

 

732zcE0.jpg

 

It is my intention to have the bomb bay open, which would show a considerable gap between cockpit/radio room floor at their bomb by bulkhead location. I therefore made some bottom bulkhead parts with lightening holes for visual interest and may dress them up a little more if they require.

 

KWjp1io.jpg

 

Since I had to airbrush the yellow rings on the bombs, I decided to combine them with with the yellow propeller tips. Primed with Tamiya fine surface primer, finely sanded and sprayed with mr color Ueno black, which is also a great base for the AK xtreme Steel for the hub. Was watching a video from Doogs model the other day and he used pink as a base for yellow instead of white. I tried this, but with the lack of pink in my arsenal, I used a flesh colour as an undercoat for the usually difficult to airbrush yellow colour and bad covering properties. I think it worked and you don't see a tiny white line by using the flesh colour after removing the masking tape. The flesh colour just appears to blend in. The Ueno gloss black is very smooth and a good base for the decals after which it will be flat coated and weathered. One propeller hub was intentionally left silver, representing a replacement.

 

wu3XZuw.jpg

 

 

From what I understand, the propeller hubs were often painted in group or squadron colours and I have not 100% decide which livery to go for.

 

The B-17 Little Miss Mischief is an incredible scheme, but it is often build due to it's attractiveness (and rightly so). I have the sheet, but I am much more leaning towards "American Beauty" as seen below.

 

h7a5ywV.jpg

 

By the way, at the same time managed to obtain the generic B-17 stencilling decals.

 

FCrqCpK.jpg

 

Also in my decal collection are the 2 original Monogram sets and "Chow Hound", "El Lobo" are still on the table

 

4BIVKLq.jpg

 

The box contained the decals for " Shoo Shoo Shoo baby" and "Thunderbird" but even though they look amazing in below phone camera image they are a little faded and I am not sure if they are still in good condition for application.

 

SDd9k2v.jpg

 

 

 

My real favourite however is "2nd Patches". There is a great finished model of this scheme on imodeler and I don't think that quality will be repeated in this thread, but it is quite cool.

 

The super scale decal sheet and instructions only shows the natural metal fin, but it also has the fuselage door and part of the starboard wing in natural metal and it looks pretty attractive. And......the shark mouth!

 

 

qLeLJxk.jpg

 

The real " 2nd patches"

 

iQYtygr.jpg

 

So I guess it is between "American Beauty" and "2nd Patches". The all natural metal finish of American Beauty would be the easiest option, since the formula of priming, followed by Mr Color Ueno Black and AK Xtreme Polished aluminium (slightly dulled down by Mr color GX gloss) has worked fine for me in the past, However, "American Beauty appears not to have any further colours on the vertical fin or stabilizer, which could make it a little monotonous in appearance unless perhaps combined with different shades of metal panels.

 

"2nd Patches" may look a little more interesting, although I have to find a better Olive Drab than the Mr color I used for the bombs which was quite translucent and not covering great. I would also like the base color to be a little more towards the pale brownish side of Olive Drab if possible. Some further exploring to do.

 

That's all for today and thank you for watching. Comments, feedback and critique is welcome.

 

Oh yes, almost forgot........my other big masking and painting project taking up most of my time:

 

8JJka5n.jpg

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Rob,

 

You're spot on, once again, with your colours in the bomb bay - no parts would have been painted.

 

If you're leaning towards American Beauty, you could always depict her as she was later in the war, with insignia yellow tail, stabs and wing tips. She would also have had three yellow fuselage bands and a red/blue chevron on the upper right and lower left outer wings. All other markings would have remained the same - other than in all likelihood her fuselage code letters would have been removed. I'm sure I've got some late-war shots of her somewhere - let me know if you want any further details.

 

All the best,

Tom

 

Edit: Here's a great colour profile, page 4, second one down: https://www.markstyling.com/3ad_b17s4.htm

 

 

 

 

Edited by tomprobert
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1 hour ago, tomprobert said:

Hi Rob,

 

You're spot on, once again, with your colours in the bomb bay - no parts would have been painted.

 

If you're leaning towards American Beauty, you could always depict her as she was later in the war, with insignia yellow tail, stabs and wing tips. She would also have had three yellow fuselage bands and a red/blue chevron on the upper right and lower left outer wings. All other markings would have remained the same - other than in all likelihood her fuselage code letters would have been removed. I'm sure I've got some late-war shots of her somewhere - let me know if you want any further details.

 

All the best,

Tom

 

Edit: Here's a great colour profile, page 4, second one down: https://www.markstyling.com/3ad_b17s4.htm

 

 

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

Thanks for your efforts in looking this up for me. Yes, the yellow bands look very appealing combined with the red prop hubs and the red band around the nose. Difficult choice now. ( unless I try the HKM B-17 at a later stage)

Many thanks

 

Rgds

 

Rob

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Been working mostly on restoring the scuffed transparent parts. First used Tamiya polishing compounds and found especially the nose cone still suffering from a smooth but somewhat irregular appearance in thickness. First dipped them in AK gauzy, but this wasn’t quite glass like. Then stripped the Gauzy back and started all over again but this time dipped them in Pledge. It now looks much brighter, thinner and a big improvement. Also wanted some protection as I will have to apply photo etch framing to the transparent parts.

 

d6gri1d.jpg
 

The fuselage windows do not fit very well into the fuselage. Tried to fill them with kristal clear, and although it worked, it didn’t dry that transparent, so they were removed. Have been further experimenting with UV resin. The 2 very small windows above the nose gunport are easy to do, but the bigger windows need some support in order for the glue not to run away. Therefore did some experimenting and it looks like using tape on the fuselage side holding the glue and let it further harden for a day or so may work.


sMKGHfW.jpg
 

vF3PIG2.jpg

 

Once the UV glue is fully hardened, I will polish it on the tape side on the exterior fuselage. Did a test run and it should work. (Fingers crossed).

 

Upq59Yt.jpg
 

That’s all, thanks for watching.

 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

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@Rob K. Great work so far! The interior looks fantastic! Also nice to see the proper colour call outs being used and given the thumbs up by @tomprobert Eagerly following this build now.

 

On 6/14/2021 at 8:54 PM, tomprobert said:

Your interior colours are spot on - I’ve spent many years researching the B-17 and you’re absolutely correct in your assumptions. Never, at any point in B-17 production, was US interior green used - the only internal paint, on all models of B-17, was bronze (or dark dull) green on the exposed metal of the flight deck - as you correctly state. Some mid-batch F models had their bomb bays in neutral grey, but you won’t find any other interior paint on a wartime B-17. 
 

There are some anecdotal claims that some batches of Douglas-built Forts had more paint internally, but I’m yet to find definitive evidence of this.  

 

Hi Tom! Thanks for the B-17 input once again. So! The bulkhead walls of the radio room, bomb bay and rear fuselage should be silver and all internal doors natural wood and everything else bronze green? I knew about the green, but wasn't sure which bulkhead colour was what. I'm about to embark on the HKM kit as a Douglas built aircraft. Likewise, I haven't seen anything conclusive on Douglas built interiors either, so I'm going to go this route.

 

Edit: Agreed! I do wish Eduard would research their interior colours!

 

Cheers!

Steve

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1 hour ago, fightersweep said:

Hi Tom! Thanks for the B-17 input once again. So! The bulkhead walls of the radio room, bomb bay and rear fuselage should be silver and all internal doors natural wood and everything else bronze green? I knew about the green, but wasn't sure which bulkhead colour was what. I'm about to embark on the HKM kit as a Douglas built aircraft. Likewise, I haven't seen anything conclusive on Douglas built interiors either, so I'm going to go this route.

 

Edit: Agreed! I do wish Eduard would research their interior colours!

 

Cheers!

Steve

Yes - that just about sums it up. As far as I can ascertain, the only bulkhead with any paint/covering was the rear cockpit bulkhead and this was bronze green with some olive green sound-proofing material in places. The bulkhead separating the nose from the cockpit appears to have been bronze green on some aircraft, and natural metal on others - I've not been able to identify exact batches, however. There was an olive green material covering the rear of the instrument panel, however. All others bulkheads should be natural metal. Doors were indeed unpainted plywood. 

 

The Douglas-built Forts may have varied slightly, and as I said there is some anecdotal claims that more of the interior was painted, but definitive pictorial evidence has evaded me thus far! 

 

Tom

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4 hours ago, dov said:

You are doing perfect!

Tell me about your clear resin experiment more in detail about the process and result please!

Happ ymodelling

Thanks Dov,

 

I have done several tests now. If it wasn’t for all that detail inside, I would probably put the tape on the inside. So far: the tape on the residue side is relatively rough as was to be expected. First I tried to polish it away, but I already found out you need to go deeper with the 3M sand sponges 800-1000 and finer step by step and polish it smooth in the end. So started all over again and making some photographs. If it is successful I will post it step by step. I am sure it is probably viable for bigger windows. (It already works great for small windows and lenses) A thicker uv glue would probably assist and I gather hardening to a tough end-material would help. There are probably some differences in uv glue brands as well. Good thing is. That if you are not happy with the result, you can just push the window out with a little bit of pressure. Hopefully it works but I am going to let that uv glue cure for a couple of days this time👍

 

Rgds

Rob

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@tomprobert

 

Thanks Tom! I've got dozens of photos of the Fort I'm researching, and I have a really nice close up of the waist gun position. You can see the inside of the fuselage, but frustratingly, there's no way of determining any colour. It looks light though, so I'm going with natural metal. It was a 35-DL by the way.

 

Any recommendations for the closest green, maybe from Humbrol? I've got an old Gloy paint that I think might be close.

 

Cheers;

Steve

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Hi,

 

Well, spending many hours on my uv resin windows, I would sum up that it wasn’t quite the  model building revolutionary technique I was hoping for. However it may have some use for when you have lost a flat clear part and there are some properties which are useful and worth further exploring. The biggest problem I found that the service tension in liquid form, only allows for filling very small windows, lenses (And creates a very nice result - but this was a known technique already). Krystal clear does have this tension, but I didn’t dry clear enough to my satisfaction either.
So I backed the resin up with tape, which results in a rough texture on the adhesive side. If you have the “ hard” type resin it does sand and polish very well. There are no tiny air bubbles in the resin I used. On the one hand it adheres well to the kit, but the resin can also be popped out with a little bit of force. Thus you can make several parts and choose the one that comes out best. It is probably a technique that requires further exploring by someone with more patience than me. I used 800-1000, followed by 1800-2000 and Tamiya 3000 sanding sponges. Then polished with Novus scratch remover. It can be further enhanced by dipping the part in future.

on reflection I think I should have concentrated more on sanding in the various stages. It may make sense to see which brand of uv resin has the best properties for this purpose. Below some pics of my amateur experimentation. Because so much sanding/polishing was involved and I didn’t want to eat in the fuselage plastic and detail, the windows were sanded separately.

 

1bjMHGL.jpg

 

K5BhkMU.jpg

The parts after Sanding/Polishing

 

pySeVPb.jpg

The parts after dipping in Pledge

 

 

9QdfFs2.jpg

 

Although I couldn’t focus the subject properly, you notice that once inserted, it didn’t quite look that convincing and at this stage it is still not a match for a regular clear part. 
 

zchYsUc.jpg
 

Hence I sanded the little stubs away on the Monogram windows and repeated the process all over again and settled for those. But, I will keep this option in mind, because it may hold more promise. Better uv resin, more detail to sanding/polishing etc. may produce better results.

 

Onwards with the armament. My next challenge is to attach the photo etch ammo belts from ammo boxes to guns without breaking other parts or making a mess with superglue🙄Suggestion welcome. Prior to this the barrels will need to be removed and pre-drilled (for placement at the end…….) Such a long way to go and I would at least really like to get to the stage where the fuselage can be closed up. That’s all, thanks for watching.

 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

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Hi,

 

Just an update of the final interior work done on the b-17. Installed the guns (minus barrels and made sure they are well secured with Thin CA, which also closed up all the gaps around the gun ports. Installed some of the gun belts. The front port side belt will go in last, which is going to be a difficult since the belts do not bend very well. Installed the front Bomb bay bulkhead. The aft bulkhead will be installed once the 2 halves are together.

 

Below some images before the all of that work will disappear.

 

DkEN0xd.jpg

Sometimes it is difficult painting straight lines……

 

ZDW9aIv.jpg
 

Made the generator from a 1/24 merlin engine part. Not too happy about the fuselage paint work on the PS, but this was started years ago with limited knowledge about prepping etc. Sb fuselage looks a little better in this respect.

 

oLSGyJt.jpg

b18TxLw.jpg
 

d2GCGuI.jpg

 

 

The self constructed front bomb bay bulkhead.

 

w0t5mQq.jpg

 

x1hc3ih.jpg
 

There is a few things which I am still not entirely happy about, but overall, I am quite pleased that I managed to get through all that interior photo etch. That was one of the objectives, to get a little better using these detailing sets, although I am not sure whether I would use a similar set for my Monogram b-24 that Is eventually up next on the list. I may just opt there to concentrate more on the exterior rather than interior detail, but we will see. That’s still some way off.
 

Thanks for watching


Rgds

 

Rob

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On 7/12/2021 at 3:35 AM, Rob K. said:

Hi,

 

Well, spending many hours on my uv resin windows, I would sum up that it wasn’t quite the  model building revolutionary technique I was hoping for. However it may have some use for when you have lost a flat clear part and there are some properties which are useful and worth further exploring. The biggest problem I found that the service tension in liquid form, only allows for filling very small windows, lenses (And creates a very nice result - but this was a known technique already). Krystal clear does have this tension, but I didn’t dry clear enough to my satisfaction either.
So I backed the resin up with tape, which results in a rough texture on the adhesive side. If you have the “ hard” type resin it does sand and polish very well. There are no tiny air bubbles in the resin I used. On the one hand it adheres well to the kit, but the resin can also be popped out with a little bit of force. Thus you can make several parts and choose the one that comes out best. It is probably a technique that requires further exploring by someone with more patience than me. I used 800-1000, followed by 1800-2000 and Tamiya 3000 sanding sponges. Then polished with Novus scratch remover. It can be further enhanced by dipping the part in future.

on reflection I think I should have concentrated more on sanding in the various stages. It may make sense to see which brand of uv resin has the best properties for this purpose. Below some pics of my amateur experimentation. Because so much sanding/polishing was involved and I didn’t want to eat in the fuselage plastic and detail, the windows were sanded separately.

 

Rob, I just got done reading your post on recreating windows with UV resin. Something occurred to me that might help and I'm going to try this to confirm,but instead of tape, would a small piece of a cut up sandwich bag or even plastic wrap(the sticky kind) for covering food help in cutting down on the texture problem after the resin cures? Great job so far can't wait for the finish!

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6 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

Rob, I just got done reading your post on recreating windows with UV resin. Something occurred to me that might help and I'm going to try this to confirm,but instead of tape, would a small piece of a cut up sandwich bag or even plastic wrap(the sticky kind) for covering food help in cutting down on the texture problem after the resin cures? Great job so far can't wait for the finish!

Hi,

 

Thanks for the suggestion. @billn53 followed up using packing tape, which likely eliminates much of the roughness on the adhesive side. See his Cessna Skymaster build. It definitely has more potential. Appreciate the interest in the UV resin use for clear parts👍
 

Rgds

 

Rob

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  • 4 months later...

Picked up the B-17 again and over the last week did quite some work on it.

Closed up the fuselage and did a lot of sanding trying to eliminate the seams. In the process the raised panel lines on the joints were lost. Although it is possible to recreate them by building them up with primer, I decided to re-scribe them. However, re-scribing them on the fuselage, automatically made me want to re-scribe the wings as well. I am aware that the B-17 had overlapping panels and re-scribing will not fully replicate the actual situation, but the raised panel lines on the Monogram B-17 doesn’t either really, so I decided on this compromise. The wings are all done, with just the fuselage to go, but I will do this once primed. Most of the raised detail was sanded away.

1b4Zc81.jpg
 

Managed to fit the eduard photo etch in the wing inlets.

 

QrJELWU.jpg

Thanks for watching.

 

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8 minutes ago, jhutchi said:

Looking really great. I wish I'd seen this a few months ago as I would have offered to swap fuselage halves with you as I am after a transparent one for my b17. 

Really great build though 

Thanks for your comment and I would have done the swap. 

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Hi,

 

Continued today with some more photo etching on the wing.

AdpR47a.jpg


Used the capillary properties of the thin zap CA and tidied everything up with the VMS debonder.

BdXUKgG.jpg


The photo etched part in the foreground is according to the Eduard instructions a sidewall for the wheel well, but I am puzzled as it appears oversized and looking at photographs I fail to notice this detail. They are 4 pieces in total for each wheel well, but I may omit them.

 

That’s all for now. Thanks for watching.

 

Rgds

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, 

 

As mentioned earlier, despite the overlapping panels on the b-17 but due to lost raised panel detail, I decided to re-scribe the entire model.

 

This took about 2 weeks and now the stage is reached where I am planning to apply a black gloss coat and then spray an aluminium coat on the model. I will then determine if It stays metal coloured or camouflaged or a combination of both by going for the “2nd patches” scheme.

QbkzpKC.jpg
 

 

IAfb6oe.jpg


C5cDap0.jpg

 

u2Kzym3.jpg
 

I was quite tempted to apply rivet detail, but the sunken self applied rivets by rivet-wheel will not do it justice and I can’t afford to buy the many raised required rivet decals/transfers, so regrettably I think I am going to leave this out.

 

Feedback/critique is always welcome.

 

That’s all, thanks for watching.

 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

 

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8 hours ago, Rob K. said:


 

I was quite tempted to apply rivet detail, but the sunken self applied rivets by rivet-wheel will not do it justice and I can’t afford to buy the many raised required rivet decals/transfers, so regrettably I think I am going to leave this out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've considered this as well in 1/48 with either a B-17 F or G (after doing this with a 1/72 Lancaster once). It could work but as you say the cost would be prohibitive. Decals (such as Archer, which are really great) do leave some trace of film as you cut the sheets into strips, and doing a little bit of testing I was unsure if a coat of primer would be enough to make those disappear with an neutral metal finish. It's fine under camo, so an OD B-17 would be no problem. But again, cost.

 

Great progress on your model by the way!

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10 hours ago, elger said:

 

I've considered this as well in 1/48 with either a B-17 F or G (after doing this with a 1/72 Lancaster once). It could work but as you say the cost would be prohibitive. Decals (such as Archer, which are really great) do leave some trace of film as you cut the sheets into strips, and doing a little bit of testing I was unsure if a coat of primer would be enough to make those disappear with an neutral metal finish. It's fine under camo, so an OD B-17 would be no problem. But again, cost.

 

Great progress on your model by the way!

Thanks Elmer,

 

Forgot about the archer rivets, just looked at HGW, which I used before on one occasion. Still costly though. Think it will have to stay “rivetless”.
 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

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Hello, Rob.

Nice engraving job, it is very clean!👍

 

Riveting the fuselage and wings of a model is a matter of taste, ... and endurance, because it is tedious and long.

According to me, the surface of the model, which is substantial, is more pleasing to the eye.

 

I did it on my last two B17s at 1:72:

9410.jpg

 

17_b1711.jpg

 

15_b1712.jpg

I think that it is only an illusion, and it enriches the model.

 

(I write it because it satisfies my desires and my madness! :banghead::chair::fool:)

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

 

 

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On 12/12/2021 at 16:40, Snafu35 said:

Hello, Rob.

Nice engraving job, it is very clean!👍

 

Riveting the fuselage and wings of a model is a matter of taste, ... and endurance, because it is tedious and long.

According to me, the surface of the model, which is substantial, is more pleasing to the eye.

 

I did it on my last two B17s at 1:72:

9410.jpg

 

17_b1711.jpg

 

15_b1712.jpg

I think that it is only an illusion, and it enriches the model.

 

(I write it because it satisfies my desires and my madness! :banghead::chair::fool:)

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

 

 

Thank you Eric,

 

It does look more pleasing to the eye and your b-17 is in 72nd scale.

 

Therefore I bit the bullet. The raised rivet decals would be too costly for the entire model so I decided to use the rivet wheel for the wings and may apply raised transfers for the fuselage.

 

Thank you for you feedback.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Rob

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  • Rob K. changed the title to Monogram B-17G

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