Monogram B-17G

[Rob K.]

After having received above feedback but also having viewed @Andy Dyck ‘s very nice HK 1/48 b-17 and the visible surface detail, I decided to go ahead with applying more rivet detail. It will be a total reversal, positive detail sanded away and replaced by negative detail. Anyway, I hope it will come out ok.

 

Managed to get some drawings of the web. Not sure if all that accurate, but comparing with photographs it looks close enough.

 

 

 

For the large surfaces, I used a metal ruler to run the rivet wheel along as I couldn’t quite get the very straight lines with Dymo or engraving tape. Started on the underside of the wings, so I practiced first on the least visible parts of the model.

 

 

 

 

 

Just the fuselage to go now. Will probably use the raised rivet transfers on there as I am a little unsure whether I can confidently run the rivet wheel along the round surface. Will see. 
 

That’s all, thanks for watching,

 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

 

[Andy Dyck]

That’s a lot of work……my deepest respect!  I lost nerves when I started my Revell model. It’s still lying in the box . And I think I will never start again. 
so I am looking forward for yours, looks very professional!

all the best

Andy 

[kiseca]

Looks marvellous! Hope you don't mind if I jump onboard for the ride?

[Rob K.]

28 minutes ago, kiseca said:

Looks marvellous! Hope you don't mind if I jump onboard for the ride?

You’re welcome

 

Rgds

Rob

[Snafu35]

Hello Rob,

 

beautiful and very clean work, well done!

You make me want to build one of my B17 Monogram so much that I hope to start early next year.

I also use a metal ruler to pass Rosie. I also draw all the lines before, to visualize well.

I am following the drawing proposed in Aero Detail number 19, and I have not thought of sending you a scan of this drawing:

the model I am currently working on is the B17G Airfix 1/72.

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

[Rob K.]

Hi,

Decided to continue the journey with the rivet wheel instead of purchasing raised rivet transfers. Took me all day today and it looks ok to my eye, although I am not claiming a high degree of accuracy, despite trying to follow the plans as a guide.

 

Tried to give an impression of overlapping panel lines by riveting the lower part of each horizontal engraved panel, but am not sure now if this makes any sense or if it will make a difference once the paint is on. Anyway, below the progress so far:

 

 

 

 

 

Zooming in this close, there is still a bit of tidying up to do I notice, but this is the progress so far.

 

Thanks for watching,

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

[Alan P]

That's a good idea to simulate the lap joints. Must remember that!

[tonyh]

57 minutes ago, Alan P said:

That's a good idea to simulate the lap joints. Must remember that!

That does look really effective.

 

Duly noted for when I drag one of mine out out of the stash.

 

Tony

[Rob K.]

Hi,

 

Just some work on the engines today and adding the Eduard photo etch to the cowlings.

 

 

Thanks for watching,

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

[krow113]

Nice work,

Having this same scenario going on and seeing comments regarding forward visualizing , I can mention that I became aware of how much alla that photo etch weighs!

Some landing gear re-inforcement is prolly gonna be needed.

[Rob K.]

Hi,

 

Totally forgot to place the housing for the flaps. According to Eduard’s instructions it requires a curve in order to close it up. Not sure if this is true in reality. (Was rather hard to find any good images of the inside of the flaps)

Flaps down also does not appear to be that common on the ground, but I gather it may add a little extra interest to the model. 
 

Made the curve by rolling a round ballpoint lid on a spongy nail buffing stick.

 

Most of it will be obscured by the actual flap itself.

 

 

Some tidying up to do by removing traces of black superglue in the corners, but it is in. I ordered some VMS metal primer in order to coat the surface. Previously tried mr metal primer, but that doesn’t work for me.

 

Difficult to make real progress with so much to do. (The goal was to use up pretty much of the Big Ed set to enhance my photo etch skills 😵‍💫) It’s a slow process.

 

Am so tempted to allow myself to be distracted by this recent arrival from the Ukraine:

 

 

It looks quite a cool kit In my opinion.

 

However, trying to keep the focus on the b-17 🧐

 

Thanks for watching,

 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

[Rob K.]

Received the VMS photo etch primer and it appears a little more robust than the mr metal primer. Followed their process by applying the fast styrene cement first and was able to coat the full photo etch housing of the flaps.

 

 

 

After applying the grey primer, some with Tamiya fine grey primer and some with Mr surfacer, Everything was smoothened out with micro mesh clothes.

 

Then applied ak xtreme aluminium and this did not come out ok. Despite all the sanding/polishing it seemed the alu coat reflected differently in patches on the wing.

 

Therefore decided to go with my tried and tested method of applying mr Color GX Ueno black followed eventually by polished aluminium (which then will be toned down somewhat). Did the same on my Thunderflash built and that came out ok. (Fingers crossed). 

Here is where I am at now. The B-17 is gloss black and ready for an aluminium coat.

 

 

 

That’s all, 

 

Thanks for watching,

 

Rgds

 

Rob

 

 

[Whitewolf]

On 14/06/2021 at 20:45, Rob K. said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Still some time to decide whether to show all armament whilst on the ground. Did get the master-model.pl gun barrels.

There are definitely some opportunities to showcase them on terra firma after some browsing through old images.

 

 

Half the fun is to conduct some amateur research on the B-17, which made me have doubts about the earlier posted progress concerning radio room and interior colours. So many different takes on the subject and "reference" images of restored aircraft do not apparently always show the war time situation with regards to coating  or non-coating with regards to zinc chromate, bronze green, dark green in different areas used (or not). Plenty of threads to go through on Britmodeller or Large Scale Planes websites concerning this topic.

Did find some interesting articles amongst which: 

 

https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/

 

https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/18/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-ii/

 

https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2020/03/04/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-iii/

 

 

 

 

 

From what I understand  the early war (and pre-war) B-17's were outfitted with dark green coloured sound proofing in bombardier/navigator/cockpit and radio compartment. The aft fuselage behind the radio-room should always be aluminium coloured although some individual frames may show zinc chromate. Restored aircraft often have the aft fuselage shown in zinc chromate or similar modern coatings to preserve the aircraft. Late war B-17's did not have the sound-proofing anymore (except cockpit) from what I gather, to speed up production. Some mention that the original sound proofing was not entirely flame retardant and was was often removed as a result or it was at times removed for ease of access with regards to repairs. 

For my later war B-17 G (without the sound proofing) I therefore decided to paint the entire fuselage in aluminium colour except for the cockpit which is dark dull green (or can be painted bronze green-I believe for the earlier models)

 

 

 

Since the Monogram b-17 shows the ribs and frames moulded in the fuselage, I therefore drew the conclusion that also in the radio room and bombardier navigator section the aluminium colour would be most appropriate and the same for the bulkheads (apart from the cockpit bulkhead). The cockpit sidewalls though simple in construction probably represent the soundproofing/canvas on the sidewall panels. Anyway, that is my take on it, but I am no expert on the matter.

 

I did completely change the radio room to what I thought would be a more plausible interior colour scheme for this b-17G. I was also not entirely happy with my earlier work.

 

 

 

The next question was the construction of the flooring. Came across a nice thread on a modelling forum, concerning an anecdote of a lady who had worked on the assembly lines of b-17's in the war and commented on the amount of wood used (in flooring, doors, desks and other items) and the wood splinters they had to endure during this part of the construction. From this anecdote I gathered that the wooden floors were mostly wood covered with rubber matting. Although due  to shortages they were not always available in sufficient quantity, which resulted in part covering or no covering at all in some instances. The cockpit floor near the control flight controls do appear to be metal (aluminium) with the cockpit colour of bronze green or dark dull green.

 

My take on the flooring issue, despite not being able to find good and enough reference material was to paint the floors a wood colour with black (rubber) walkways. Wood was simulated with a Vallejo deck tan base with ammo burn amber oil paint. I am not sure if this is entirely accurate, but it seemed a plausible representation. The doors are 2 tone Vallejo acrylics with an attempt to scribe wood structure with the help of a cocktail stick. 

 

 

 

Did some scratch building of what I think are hydraulic tanks on the cockpit bulkhead? the dark squares on the door will need to be repainted in a different colour.

 

 

Some further photo etching to do and further tidying up of the various compartments as well as panel washes yet to be applied. Seat belts need to be attached as well still.

 

So far the very slow progress. thank you for all your previous comments thus far, thanks for watching and feedback is naturally welcome. 

 

 

 

You've done nice job on the wooden floor! Avoid few years back i had this kit and used some balsa wood sanded very thin, cut to size and painted with varnish for the wooden floors. It looked pretty good!

[Rob K.]

27 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

You've done nice job on the wooden floor! Avoid few years back i had this kit and used some balsa wood sanded very thin, cut to size and painted with varnish for the wooden floors. It looked pretty good!

Well, you can’t beat the real stuff I gather. Thanks for your feedback 

 

Rgds, 

 

Rob

[Shalako]

As always, great work Rob! I am looking forward to see your model finished but, I am more anxious to see a B-25 or B-26 (Monogram/Revell ALWAYS!) being build from your craftsmanship!!

[Rob K.]

1 hour ago, Shalako said:

As always, great work Rob! I am looking forward to see your model finished but, I am more anxious to see a B-25 or B-26 (Monogram/Revell ALWAYS!) being build from your craftsmanship!!

Thanks. I do have the gun nose Monogram version in the stash actually. 🙂

Was planning to do below version at some point:

 

 

 

Did have a go at the accurate miniatures kit some time ago:
 

 

Appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

[Shalako]

Happy New Year Everybody!!

 

The Mitchell you have built Rob is beautiful but, it doesn't compare to the job you have done on the B-17, and therefore, it is definitely a MUST to build another one!!! And less we forget - a B-26 also!!!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Rob K.]

Hi,

 

Managed to get the basic colours on the B-17. Would have liked to have hade a little more of a faded Olive drab look and Did try to mix in some mrp sand in places. Need to figure out how to get that light brownish olive drab look. Have lots of paints and colours to my disposal, but struggling with the right tone.

 

 

The rudder also needs a different Colour aluminium and plan to pick out some panels with slightly different colour tones to simulate localised repairs.

 

Painted the panels behind the engine nacelles the same metal colour as the vertical stabiliser. Naturally way to shiny, so toned them down with Tamiya weathering powder. They appear over painted on some pictures in the camouflage colours and on other images they appear more like weathered metal. Wonder if it is heat protection and thus subject to paint wearing of over time or perhaps not painted at all on some b-17’s. The nacelles will be dirtied up much more though and this is just a start.

 

 

The scribed and rivet detail is still there and very subtle, but I hope to lift it with a wash. It is not quite clear if the “2nd patches” livery that I am trying to replicate had the de-icing boots part present or already completely removed. In hindsight the better option would have been to sand the de-icing boots away and apply rivet detail.

 

Obviously on the starboard wing and the leading edge of the rudder they were removed due to repairs after battle damage.

 

As a compromise, I may leave the de-icing boots on the port wing intact in the assumption that they were not yet removed and paint them a faded rubbery colour. From reading I gather that the de-icing boots were mostly removed and they consisted simply of a rubber layer over a bare metal leading edge ensuring easy movement whilst inflating/deflating? Anyway, plenty of discussions on the various modeller websites regarding this feature. Still have to make up my mind what to do with the boots.

 

 

 

Also came across a nice account of one of the pilots WalterMoody of “2nd Patches”, describing the raid that led to most of the visible repairs as shown in the images:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/99BGHS/photos/?ref=page_internal&tab=album&album_id=626418627879321

 

 

 

That was all for the progress in the last few days.

 

Thanks for watching. Comment/critique always welcome.

 

Kind regards,

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bensi]

Wow Rob 😮

 

Great work so far.  I am anxious to see how you progress 

Best of luck 

 

Bensi

[Rob K.]

Thank you Bensi,

 

Progress is rather slow I am afraid. Can’t quite get the Olive drab how I want it to look, but thanks for your comment.

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

[Rob K.]

Tried my luck with some olive drab variations. The base is Mr Color 12, lighter tones are MRP OD 234 in places mixed with MRP 204 Sand Yellow and also some misting of AK’s Faded Olive Drab. Flight control surfaces are a mist of cockpit green on top of the base Olive drab.

 

The metal surfaces are AK xtreme metal Alu variations.

 

The metal surface on the vertical stabiliser was protected earlier with some aqua gloss. The one top panel was sprayed today, hence it jumps out a little, but hope to blend that in a little more later.

 

 

 

 

Getting a little closer to where I want it to be, just hoping I have not lost too much detail in the process.

 

That’s all, thanks for watching.

 

Rgds

 

Rob
 

 

[Rob K.]

Airbrushed the walkways on today and everything went quite nicely….until I was studying the size and location of the stars and bars on wings and fuselage and then discovered that “2nd patches” according to the images had the staggered waist gun windows 😬

 

So now I am contemplating whether to live with it or go for an entire Olive drab b-17. Really liked the scheme, the decal set actually has the directly opposing waist gun configuration but that is turning out to be inaccurate.

 

Will sleep on it. Anyway below today’s “progress”.

 

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

[Rob K.]

Had a go with the Cricut I got hold of recently and made my own Stars and Bars using frisket film.

 

 

Mixed mr. Color “Blue angels blue” with some black to get the insignia blue which I matched to various sets of Decals. Mr Color gloss white for the stars, which has got excellent coverage over the dark blue.

 

Quite happy with how it turned out. ( supercharger weathering not finished by the way)

 

That’s all, thanks for watching.

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

 

 

[Rob K.]

Hi,

 

Completely sanded the vertical stabiliser smooth, rescribed and re-riveted and metal coated everything again after my paintwork using the cricut masks turned disastrous.

Did not include any pictures of this mishap, but continued as follows after this reset:

 

Mixed some mr Color go gloss and flat varnish to a semi gloss in order to prepare for decalling and the flory wash.

 

Had quite some trouble with the adhesion of the decals. Micro sol didn’t quite do the trick and the Draco strong removed the top film on the fin, hence the black diamond was airbrushed/sanded/painted until it was repaired satisfactory.

Also the “2nd patches” didn’t quite conform and it took a lot of effort to eliminate the silvering, despite using mr mark setter before placement.

 

The stars and bars were all airbrushed. In hindsight I could have placed the insignia on the port wing a little more back towards the aileron, but I was following the decal sheet instructions at the time and placed the mask accordingly.
 

All the riveting is still visible, although I am not sure if it shows on the images. A few areas on the wing have been treated with the flory wash, but the fuselage (and majority of the wing) still needs to be done after the semi gloss coat covering the decals has dried properly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After the flory wash I may have a go at the exhaust/oil Staines, planning to use Tamiya weathering powders as I don’t quite trust my freehand airbrush skills. Will try to follow below patterns:

 

 

 

 

 

That’s all, thanks for watching

 

Rgds,

 

Rob

 

[elger]

45 minutes ago, Rob K. said:

 

After the flory wash I may have a go at the exhaust/oil Staines, planning to use Tamiya weathering powders as I don’t quite trust my freehand airbrush skills. Will try to follow below patterns:

 

 

 

Looking good! I used oil paints for replicating those stains on my Seattle Sleeper this weekend - I was pretty happy with how that worked out (also not great at airbrushing them freehand!)