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Monogram B-17G


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Hi,

 

One project that never seems to come of the ground properly is the Monogram B-17G in my stash (for years). Especially since a new tooling by HK has surfaced. Always liked the B-17 and an earlier effort was sadly ruined by my inexperience at the time. So I chose to find a reasonably priced b-17 on an auction website in a tatty box, but to keep the costs down, I went for the transparent version (which I regret now). Nevertheless, I am going to attempt to finish it using the Big Ed photo etch set. Not sure how long it will take me and if I am able to preserve sanity through the torture of photo etch bending and glue-ing. Nevertheless, I'd really like to get better at photo etch, so by the time the b-17 is finished (one day), I should be pretty proficient at the skill. Already tried to replicate the framing on the (formerly) transparent inside. Hopefully I will finish it one day and this post may assist in further driving the motivation.

Here some early pics below, although the paintwork on some parts need further tidying up and some panel wash etc.

 

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Thanks for watching

 

 

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Great work.

 

How do you think to display it.

Just to ask, because there is a certain pattern how they were parked,

position of turetts and the guns.

Guns had a pattern how and when they were made ready.

Barrels were out of the aircraft!

It is not like just doing anything.

My knowledge yet, a fortess in parked position has mostly no guns!!!!

 

If your etched parts fit, you are lucky.

I had a couple of frustration with Eduard right now. MIG-23, 27 and Su-25.

But as an experienced one: Be careful. Prepare etched parts befor you cut any plastic.

Happy modelling

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Thanks Dov, I will try to do a reasonably accurate job, (I guess that was the point of getting the detail set out in the first place). However, as far as display goes.....I may just be tempted to break the rules and go with all guns blazing and pointing out In parked position. Will see..😉 But...it is probably a good point your making and I had not given it much thought. Thanks and food for thought!

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My advice after hundreds of models built: Think forward!

 

That means storage and cleaning.

 

Guns in position is ok, if the plane is manned. Crew on position. Gunners carried the barrels on shoulder to the a/c.

For the ball turret the procedure was slightly different, not much.

All covers usually were closed by canvas against British weather.

If it stands on the perimeter, a gunned fortress is a no go.

 

In art, for example a lady with fur on the sunny beach in CA!

 

Also in dioramas I see so often obscure things, I never say or write a word. People are not aware about it.

You have a really hard stand now, since I know you know it! Just a joke.

 

I have on my B-17 also the barrels on. At the time I built it, I had no clue about it. Afterward..oh, I was ashamed. 

To get a good fix for the barrel: I cut them in two parts. Inside gun, outside barrel. And pin from a wire.

So you also can repair it, if you need.

Dangerous is spraying and the dust. So, you can close the hole completely.

 

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Hello, Rob.

 

Here is a project that I will follow, because I am a bit crazy about B17! I don't have enough in my collection, and I like to discover the constructions of other modelers.

The pursuit of precision is becoming very important in our community.

dov is right to point out the hidden detail, to make a difference.

The equipment was installed at the time of embarkation, and deposited upon arrival. The artillerymen collected their weapon in the armory, and they reintegrated it as quickly as possible on arrival.

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As much this detail is rather difficult to reproduce at 1:72, as it is visible at 1:48.

I personally use this reference:

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the cannon tubes are independent, and it's easier to use than rolling photoetched parts!

 

Have fun!

 

Regards,

Eric-Snafu35

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Rob,

Late for the start. Will watch with great interest. Have a number of the Revell and old Monogram kits. Haven't built one for myself yet just commission  builds. What the customer wants they get.

 

All that you've done so far looks great. I'll comment where and when it comes. I've taken a lot of display B-17's in the past years and may have what might be needed for clarity. If needed.

All The Best,

Ron VanDerwakrer

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Looking forward to this got both the B17 and B24 monogram kits.

I have modelled since being a kid then about 15 years ago I stopped, I got fed up of chasing perfection and total accuracy and what had been a huge pleasure became just a goal. I’ve recently started modelling again but this time for me, I do it because I enjoy it and I find it relaxing. I now model just for me. Enjoy the build 👍

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Nice work so far, Rob. These are still good kits in my opinion, very happy to build old Monogram as they still look brilliant when built up.

 

As for the display options...as ever, it's your model so build it how you'd like to see it 👍

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Thanks everyone for the feedback. Still some time to decide whether to show all armament whilst on the ground. Did get the master-model.pl gun barrels.

There are definitely some opportunities to showcase them on terra firma after some browsing through old images.

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Half the fun is to conduct some amateur research on the B-17, which made me have doubts about the earlier posted progress concerning radio room and interior colours. So many different takes on the subject and "reference" images of restored aircraft do not apparently always show the war time situation with regards to coating  or non-coating with regards to zinc chromate, bronze green, dark green in different areas used (or not). Plenty of threads to go through on Britmodeller or Large Scale Planes websites concerning this topic.

Did find some interesting articles amongst which: 

 

https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/

 

https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/18/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-ii/

 

https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2020/03/04/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-iii/

 

 

 

 

 

From what I understand  the early war (and pre-war) B-17's were outfitted with dark green coloured sound proofing in bombardier/navigator/cockpit and radio compartment. The aft fuselage behind the radio-room should always be aluminium coloured although some individual frames may show zinc chromate. Restored aircraft often have the aft fuselage shown in zinc chromate or similar modern coatings to preserve the aircraft. Late war B-17's did not have the sound-proofing anymore (except cockpit) from what I gather, to speed up production. Some mention that the original sound proofing was not entirely flame retardant and was was often removed as a result or it was at times removed for ease of access with regards to repairs. 

For my later war B-17 G (without the sound proofing) I therefore decided to paint the entire fuselage in aluminium colour except for the cockpit which is dark dull green (or can be painted bronze green-I believe for the earlier models)

 

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Since the Monogram b-17 shows the ribs and frames moulded in the fuselage, I therefore drew the conclusion that also in the radio room and bombardier navigator section the aluminium colour would be most appropriate and the same for the bulkheads (apart from the cockpit bulkhead). The cockpit sidewalls though simple in construction probably represent the soundproofing/canvas on the sidewall panels. Anyway, that is my take on it, but I am no expert on the matter.

 

I did completely change the radio room to what I thought would be a more plausible interior colour scheme for this b-17G. I was also not entirely happy with my earlier work.

 

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The next question was the construction of the flooring. Came across a nice thread on a modelling forum, concerning an anecdote of a lady who had worked on the assembly lines of b-17's in the war and commented on the amount of wood used (in flooring, doors, desks and other items) and the wood splinters they had to endure during this part of the construction. From this anecdote I gathered that the wooden floors were mostly wood covered with rubber matting. Although due  to shortages they were not always available in sufficient quantity, which resulted in part covering or no covering at all in some instances. The cockpit floor near the control flight controls do appear to be metal (aluminium) with the cockpit colour of bronze green or dark dull green.

 

My take on the flooring issue, despite not being able to find good and enough reference material was to paint the floors a wood colour with black (rubber) walkways. Wood was simulated with a Vallejo deck tan base with ammo burn amber oil paint. I am not sure if this is entirely accurate, but it seemed a plausible representation. The doors are 2 tone Vallejo acrylics with an attempt to scribe wood structure with the help of a cocktail stick. 

 

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Did some scratch building of what I think are hydraulic tanks on the cockpit bulkhead? the dark squares on the door will need to be repainted in a different colour.

 

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Some further photo etching to do and further tidying up of the various compartments as well as panel washes yet to be applied. Seat belts need to be attached as well still.

 

So far the very slow progress. thank you for all your previous comments thus far, thanks for watching and feedback is naturally welcome. 

 

 

 

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A great update and I’m enjoying your progress. 
 

Your interior colours are spot on - I’ve spent many years researching the B-17 and you’re absolutely correct in your assumptions. Never, at any point in B-17 production, was US interior green used - the only internal paint, on all models of B-17, was bronze (or dark dull) green on the exposed metal of the flight deck - as you correctly state. Some mid-batch F models had their bomb bays in neutral grey, but you won’t find any other interior paint on a wartime B-17. 
 

There are some anecdotal claims that some batches of Douglas-built Forts had more paint internally, but I’m yet to find definitive evidence of this.  
 

One thing that you might wish to remove is the ammunition cans above the ball turret. WWII era B-17s never had these and all ammunition was carried inside the turret itself. You see the external cans on many warbirds but these actually originated from the B-36 Dominator programme and have somehow found their way into B-17 restorations. 
 

I hope that helps. 
 

All the best,

Tom

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Bit late to catch up but echo Tom's comments re the interior, it was worth the extra research because you're right on point with the colours.

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Thanks Alan @Alan P and Tom @tomprobert for confirming I was on the right track with the interior colours. The Ball Turret Canisters have also been omitted (as per below image) as indeed it turned out this was not a WWII configuration. That is just the great thing about posting "work in progress" and adding  a little more accuracy, based on feedback received. Especially if you are not quite up to speed with your subject, despite looking at numerous browsing sessions on the web.

 

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Today was mostly about getting to grips with the Eduard Seat belts and my eyes are hurting..... Despite Eduard having you assemble shoulder straps for cockpit and radio-room seats, I could find no images of these fitted? So I went with the lap-belts only, but that was more than enough. 

 

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And did some more detailing on the cockpit bulkhead with some artistic license thrown in for good measure. (see door)

 

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Loads of cleaning up to do still.

 

Placed the oxygen bottles (straps to be sorted out still) and added some stencilling, but I may remove them because I am nor sure if it looks the part. (They just seemed a little bare with no stencilling, although I couldn't quite locate any "oxygen txt's in my left over decal stash).

 

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Few easy photo etch placements (no bending...) on cockpit panels and that was all for today.

 

 

 

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That was all for today. Much the same as yesterday, but with  little more detail added. thanks for watching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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More beautiful paint work! Great progress. 
 

You’re absolutely correct about the shoulder straps - these were not fitted to B-17s. Sadly, as nice as Eduard’s details sets are, they’ve also got the colours wrong for many of their parts as they’ve used interior green... oops. 

 

Tom

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57 minutes ago, tomprobert said:

More beautiful paint work! Great progress. 
 

You’re absolutely correct about the shoulder straps - these were not fitted to B-17s. Sadly, as nice as Eduard’s details sets are, they’ve also got the colours wrong for many of their parts as they’ve used interior green... oops. 

 

Tom

Ha ha, well let’s just say it breaks up the monotony of the dark “dull” green.

 

Rgds

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2 minutes ago, Lord Riot said:

Outstanding interior work, brilliant! Especially that radio room, it’s amazing. 

Thanks @Lord Riot , I refurbished the radio room 3 times before I was reasonably happy (and lost some of the coloured detailed eduard radio panels in the process - the radio instruments were replaced by sections of 1/72 airfix Decal cockpit panels - but hopefully it doesn’t show - although it might now)

 

Rgds

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Hello, Rob.

 

it's a magnificent coloring job, well done! The addition of Eduard pieces is a definite plus. This assembly will be an inspiration for me, when I will build my B17s at 1: 48th;

Thanks for sharing the links at the start; I just popped in there, "out of curiosity". I'll dig.

 

Have good time in modeling.

 

Regards,

 

Eric-Snafu35

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Inspiring work so far :)

Also great to have the benefit of so much 'applied research'. Even better that it all agrees :giggle:

 

I recall my school-days build in the '70s making extensive use of yellow zinc chromate; a fact which started bothering me so much I recently -following your example - went on a famous auction site and 'won' one... as I always tell my wife.

 

Your build is definitely pushing it to the top of the pile 

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Thanks everyone for the previous feed back.

 

So managed to get through most of the Big Ed interior eduard photo etch parts with basically the interior armament to attend to still. Minus the “Master” barrels. They will be added at the final stage. Not entirely happy with all of the photo etch additions, but I am definitely getting better at it and discovering which glues are best and for which purpose. Some products are essential.  Like the VMS debonder and plain old acetone for when you have to start all over again after mistakes and clean up or dissolve the superglue. (I am still not confident enough to take the solder iron to hand). The coloured photo etch is very fragile and don’t take to chemicals very well. Should not be too long before I can close the fuselage up and hide all that detail. During the dry fit I only had to relocate one photo etch bracket and it now closes very nicely. Below some images.

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Thats all. Thank you for watching and comments, critique, feedback and advice is always welcome. 

Thanks

 

 

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Great

I wish, at the time I (we, together with my wife) would have had such a lot of information.

I find it great, that you pick up all your friends information and thoughts.

The result (as seen now) is stunning!

Happy modelling

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