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Tornado questions from a complete noob


Paramedic

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Hi,

 

my main interest in models is Cold War jet from the West (and Sweden - SAABs!). I need a little break from my Viggens and is illing up a very modest stash with some US jets from the Vietnam era and onwards but just got  amassive urge to do a Tornado, after watching some Gulf War documentaries. 

There´s always been so many other interesting aircraft so I never really got to the Tornado, which is a shame! The ground attackers has alot of what I find interesting and gets me intrigued to model the aircraft - it looks great, has an operational service with actual combat etc.

 

I´m still trying to go through older threads, there seems to be loads of useful stuff but I still have some quick (?) questions:

 

1.(a) Best 1/48 kit for a British Tornado in the Gulf War (1991)? Those Eduard boxings disappeared quickly but it seems like there is decals around with pin-ups anyways? I would love to do one of those desert birds with hot chicks on their sides.. :) 

I remembering flipping through dad´s Air Force monthly back in the days, seeing those ones. 

 

(b) - any "must have" after,arket needed? Like, do I need a resin cockpit or is the usual Eduard IPs sufficient?

 

2. Good reference books? A book on history or maybe a good read from Osprey would be nice, any tips?

 

3. I guess I can find out what the RAF GR.1s (?) carried during the Gulf War - but any ideas of what ordnance to hang would be nice. I like my birds kitted out.. I have no knowledge here at all what was carried....

I´m trying to check out podcasts like Aircraft interviews  The Fighter Pilot Podcast, 10% True etc - any other tips are welcome though!

 

I´ve seen some nice, german ones, IDS-variants I think, with great camo and a Gr.1B intrigues me.. But those desert colourd RAF ones just look so cool.

 

Thanks. :)

 

 

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1a - NOT the Airfix offerings. The Revell GR4 can be back dated to a GR1/A fairly easily but is a complicated build. Theres a fair few builds on here that show how to not follow the instructions for a better fit all round.

 

1b - Loking at the Revell offering, personally Im happy with the cockpit out of the box, but unsure if theres much difference compared to the GR1/As if that bothers you

 

2 - World Air Power Journal Gulf War Debrief covers a fair bit about missions, ordnance and has good reference photos

 

3 - First off they went in with the JP233 runway denial systems. These came in the nasty Airfix box only, I think someone sorted them in resin fairly recently though. Later on they used 1000lb dumb bombs, initially as a set of 8 but dropped down to 4 afterwards I believe. Later still they used Paveway LGBs from medium altitude. The GR1As also did scud hunting with just fuel tanks. Speaking of which, they used the larger F3 Tornado wing tanks.

 

Thats the basics, but theres loads of info on here and models for inspiration.

 

There is a great Desert Storm website but for the life of me I cant find it right now, Im sure someone will be along with the link

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Regarding books, I have a few..

 

  • Tornado - Warlord, by Ian Black.  Is a coffee-table type photographic tribute to the Tornado, covering the whole 40+ years of RAF operations.  Some lovely pictures in here, little pricey - around £40 I think but worth it IMO.
  • Desert Air Force by Ian Black, published by Osprey.  Pictures of Gulf War a/c covering many nations, but has a section on RAF Tornados.
  • Desert Fist, by Ian Black, published by Airlife.  Similar to above.
  • Haynes RAF Tornado manual, also by Ian Black.
  • Tornado, by - you've guessed it - Ian Black!  Another Airlife picture style book covering all operators and variants.

The Osprey/Airlife ones can probably be had on eBay and various other second hand book sites.  I certainly wasn't lacking for reference pictures when I did my 1:72 Revell build last year 🙂

 

Al.

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https://www.dstorm.eu/pages/en/index_en.html

Good site with excellent info on loadouts.

 

I'm just starting a revell build with the intention of backdating to a GR.1 from Operation Granby.

 

Strangely difficult to find 1/48 gulf war RAF decals - I could only find sheets from Kits-World and Print Scale.

Hope you report back on your progress.

All the best

Q

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Eduard 'Big Sin' range does a Gulf War Tornado package with JP233, Alarm, CBU's and more, however, it may cost more than the kit itself.  ResKit make Paveway 2 LGB's and AIM produce the heavy 8x1000lb dumb bomb load.

I agree with RMP2, go with the Revell kit although it doesn't come with weapons other than AIM-9 and under wing tanks and ECM/Chaff pods. If you are on a budget you can pick up an Italeri for less, but then the detail isn't as good.  

As for reading: you cant get better than Michael Napier's 'Tornado GR1 an operational history' it has the whole RAF GR1 story from Cold War to the late 90's. There is a large Desert Storm section with plenty of photo's showing different weapon loads. Napier was a Tornado pilot during this time so speaks with authority. He has also just released an offering from Osprey; Combat Aircraft 138 RAF Tornado units of Gulf War 1. This covers both the F3 and GR1 during the conflict. I've yet to read it but some of the text is a direct lift from his other book mentioned above.  It does contain 18 pages of colour drawings showing a wealth of different nose art.

SAM Publications MDF 29 The Panavia Tornado is also a good read and has some 13 pages covering the Gulf War. It also follows the Tornado up until a few years ago and covers the F3 and aircraft flown by Germany, Italy and Saudi. SAM also has walk-around close up pictures and several 1:48 kit reviews. 

 

As a Tornado fan boy i look forward to seeing what you choose, happy building!

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I'm not really authoritative re the kits, as I have yet to even open my Revell IDS, but have just had a look in Italeri #834 for the first time, and it doesn't look bad. Certainly better than Airfix/Heller. It has 4 1.000 lb'ers, 2 Limas, and strangely 2 each of Sky Shadow (if I'm not mistaken) and BOZ but no tanks, even though they are shown on the box art. The decals in my issue are from Cartograph and include Gulf Killer with a big sharkmouth and a little nudie girl, and Snoopy Airways, which should be to your liking if you take your "interests" seriously 🙂 You may be lucky and someone has a set of spares.

 

A really good read I can recommend as I actually read most of it is the book by Francis Mason, though it only covers development and very early service, but very detailed and very readable. Cheap as chips on the used book sites, just like his works on Hunter, Harrier and C-130 (at least they were when I bought them).

Looking into my bookcase, I was somewhat surprised what else I had on Tornado - two German books on German machines, one by Alfred Price (also from the 80s so perhaps too early for you), one by Jon Lake and Mike Crutch which has some Gulf War coverage (but is not dedicated to it), and one by Double Ugly/AirDoc, also motly concerned with the German side of things but possibly of interest as it is an "Uncovered" type of book.

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Osprey have just released a book on Tornados in the Gulf. I have not got this as yet so cannot comment on the content, but it cover both types of Tornado and it says in the blurb that there are new photos in it.

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7 hours ago, RMP2 said:

1a - NOT the Airfix offerings. The Revell GR4 can be back dated to a GR1/A fairly easily but is a complicated build. Theres a fair few builds on here that show how to not follow the instructions for a better fit all round.

 

1b - Loking at the Revell offering, personally Im happy with the cockpit out of the box, but unsure if theres much difference compared to the GR1/As if that bothers you

 

2 - World Air Power Journal Gulf War Debrief covers a fair bit about missions, ordnance and has good reference photos

 

3 - First off they went in with the JP233 runway denial systems. These came in the nasty Airfix box only, I think someone sorted them in resin fairly recently though. Later on they used 1000lb dumb bombs, initially as a set of 8 but dropped down to 4 afterwards I believe. Later still they used Paveway LGBs from medium altitude. The GR1As also did scud hunting with just fuel tanks. Speaking of which, they used the larger F3 Tornado wing tanks.

 

Thats the basics, but theres loads of info on here and models for inspiration.

 

There is a great Desert Storm website but for the life of me I cant find it right now, Im sure someone will be along with the link

 

Seems like a Revell offering then. :) I need to research properly for that GR.1 anyways but if I can buy a GR.4 box and do it that way, sounds good.

 

Felt a little embarrassed to just now realize that the Tonkas had a gun on each side, always though it had just one..

I´m not that fuzzed about minor inaccuries - ie if it can´t be seen (too much) I can live with it. ;) I´ll have a look at the cockpit upgrades and the kit and see how I feel.

 

Thanks for all the tips!

 

6 hours ago, alhenderson said:

Regarding books, I have a few..

 

  • Tornado - Warlord, by Ian Black.  Is a coffee-table type photographic tribute to the Tornado, covering the whole 40+ years of RAF operations.  Some lovely pictures in here, little pricey - around £40 I think but worth it IMO.
  • Desert Air Force by Ian Black, published by Osprey.  Pictures of Gulf War a/c covering many nations, but has a section on RAF Tornados.
  • Desert Fist, by Ian Black, published by Airlife.  Similar to above.
  • Haynes RAF Tornado manual, also by Ian Black.
  • Tornado, by - you've guessed it - Ian Black!  Another Airlife picture style book covering all operators and variants.

The Osprey/Airlife ones can probably be had on eBay and various other second hand book sites.  I certainly wasn't lacking for reference pictures when I did my 1:72 Revell build last year 🙂

 

Al.

 

Great, many thanks! :) That first one sounds nice, I love that kind of stuiff - as well as more in depth heavy text ones, lol.

 

4 hours ago, Dr. Quack said:

https://www.dstorm.eu/pages/en/index_en.html

Good site with excellent info on loadouts.

 

I'm just starting a revell build with the intention of backdating to a GR.1 from Operation Granby.

 

Strangely difficult to find 1/48 gulf war RAF decals - I could only find sheets from Kits-World and Print Scale.

Hope you report back on your progress.

All the best

Q

 

Very nice! That will keep me busy while my orders pop in!

 

Never understood why you called it Op Granby and not something cool like the yanks..

 

(jk ;) )

 

I have my eyes on the Kits World stuff but I´ll check out Print Scale too!

 

1 hour ago, tempestfan said:

I'm not really authoritative re the kits, as I have yet to even open my Revell IDS, but have just had a look in Italeri #834 for the first time, and it doesn't look bad. Certainly better than Airfix/Heller. It has 4 1.000 lb'ers, 2 Limas, and strangely 2 each of Sky Shadow (if I'm not mistaken) and BOZ but no tanks, even though they are shown on the box art. The decals in my issue are from Cartograph and include Gulf Killer with a big sharkmouth and a little nudie girl, and Snoopy Airways, which should be to your liking if you take your "interests" seriously 🙂 You may be lucky and someone has a set of spares.

 

A really good read I can recommend as I actually read most of it is the book by Francis Mason, though it only covers development and very early service, but very detailed and very readable. Cheap as chips on the used book sites, just like his works on Hunter, Harrier and C-130 (at least they were when I bought them).

Looking into my bookcase, I was somewhat surprised what else I had on Tornado - two German books on German machines, one by Alfred Price (also from the 80s so perhaps too early for you), one by Jon Lake and Mike Crutch which has some Gulf War coverage (but is not dedicated to it), and one by Double Ugly/AirDoc, also motly concerned with the German side of things but possibly of interest as it is an "Uncovered" type of book.

 

Sounds like I might have to pick up the Italeri kit as well if I can find a reasonably cheap box. That is good stuff in there.

On a side note, iirc, those BOZ pods were manufactered not very far from where I live, I can even see the complex when I take the coimmuter train to my brother (Or maybe they were just designed there)

 

lol, yeah, I have a thing for those ;) as well as pin ups on aircraft. Remembering many of those real aircraft were flown by quite young fellas helps making  abetter job to honouring them, if you know what I mean.

 

2 hours ago, MT1 said:

Eduard 'Big Sin' range does a Gulf War Tornado package with JP233, Alarm, CBU's and more, however, it may cost more than the kit itself.  ResKit make Paveway 2 LGB's and AIM produce the heavy 8x1000lb dumb bomb load.

I agree with RMP2, go with the Revell kit although it doesn't come with weapons other than AIM-9 and under wing tanks and ECM/Chaff pods. If you are on a budget you can pick up an Italeri for less, but then the detail isn't as good.  

As for reading: you cant get better than Michael Napier's 'Tornado GR1 an operational history' it has the whole RAF GR1 story from Cold War to the late 90's. There is a large Desert Storm section with plenty of photo's showing different weapon loads. Napier was a Tornado pilot during this time so speaks with authority. He has also just released an offering from Osprey; Combat Aircraft 138 RAF Tornado units of Gulf War 1. This covers both the F3 and GR1 during the conflict. I've yet to read it but some of the text is a direct lift from his other book mentioned above.  It does contain 18 pages of colour drawings showing a wealth of different nose art.

SAM Publications MDF 29 The Panavia Tornado is also a good read and has some 13 pages covering the Gulf War. It also follows the Tornado up until a few years ago and covers the F3 and aircraft flown by Germany, Italy and Saudi. SAM also has walk-around close up pictures and several 1:48 kit reviews. 

 

As a Tornado fan boy i look forward to seeing what you choose, happy building!

That´s great info, I´ll head over to Eduard and have a look. That JP233 looks kinda iconing for me but those other loads sounds cool too. The SAM book sounds like a must too!

 

29 minutes ago, Jabba said:

Osprey have just released a book on Tornados in the Gulf. I have not got this as yet so cannot comment on the content, but it cover both types of Tornado and it says in the blurb that there are new photos in it.

 

Thanks, that is great news. Always nice with new pics. I´ll report back if I pick it up. :)

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18 hours ago, stever219 said:

The GR. 1 had a gun either side but the GR. 1A and GR. 4 (and F. 2 and 3) each have one only.

 

GR1A had no guns as they were removed so that the camera gear could be fitted.

 

Op Granby was the British name for the removal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait in accordance with the UN resolution. It was named Granby as this was the next name on the list of operations. Op Desert Shield/Storm was the US version of this, with other countries also having there own names for this.

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On 5/28/2021 at 7:27 PM, Jabba said:

Osprey have just released a book on Tornados in the Gulf.

You wanted an Osprey book? - then you're in luck! I've just got this newly published book - RAF Tornado Units of Gulf War I - by Michael Napier who spent 10 years flying the Tornado GR.1 and has written previously on the subject. Its a great book superbly illustrated with fantastic profiles of the Tornado GR.1 & F.3 as well as nose artwork illustrations and period photographs. I have only just started reading it but has some interesting insights into the tactics used and the meetings and efforts getting the Tornado and its weapon systems  - designed specifically for ultra low level counter-air attacks on Warsaw Pact airfields in Europe -  into the Destert Storm Master Air Attack Plan under US leadership with in excess of 3,500 USAF, USN, USMC and US Army aircraft in-theatre. Facsinating stuff and highly recommended for anyone with an interest in the Tornado and its role in this conflict.

 

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Michael Napier's book: Tornado GR.1: An Operational History is also highly recommended - is Napier the new (Ian) Black...? :rofl: 

 

Another new book on the subject is due to be published next week: Tornado: In the Eye of the Storm by John Nichol. Former Tornado Navigator John Nichol tells the story of the RAF Tornado force during the First Gulf War in 1991. John was on active duty during the first Gulf War when his Tornado bomber was shot down during a mission to attack Ar-Rumaylah air base in southern Iraq. Should be a good read - I have this on order.

 

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The Eduard Tornado kit was definitely the 1/48 Revell Tornado GR.4 boxing. This is the best boxing for an Operation Granby aircraft as it includes the larger RAF underwing fuel tanks that were used on many missions and the clear glazing for the chin mounted LRMTS which was a standard fit. The kit cockpit is the same as the Revell Tornado IDS kit and as such very similar to the Tornado GR.1. 

 

Rich

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2 hours ago, Miko said:

Take a brave pill and go with the Revell kit OOB, I'm sure you won't be disappointed,

Well I for one, totally agree - although the Revell kit is a complex build (mainly, I suspect, in order to provide parts commonality with Revell's Tornado F.3 version), it is certainly not unbuildable. There are plenty of online builds to show the pitfalls and the correct construction sequence to get a great result - it is certainly the most accurate and very detailed kit OOB in 1/48 by some margin. I think the main problem is, like many recent CAD based designs, the kit tollerences are really fine and a slight error in fitting or untreated flash can throw the fit elsewhere.  It has the added bonus that the Revell GR.4 "Farewell" boxing is available marginally cheaper (at least here in the UK) than the Italeri 1/48 Tornado IDS. 

 

Rich

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Thanks again guys! :) I´m leaning towards the Revell kit but might pick up both (Italerii as well).

 

Those books seems great, I´ll order the Osprey right off! 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/28/2021 at 8:07 PM, Paramedic said:

Never understood why you called it Op Granby and not something cool like the yanks..

The whole point of codenames for operations us that they have absolutely no relevance to what is actually being planned, that way if your communucations are intercepted then your enemy can't easily guess what you're up to. So Dynamo, Overlord, Corporate, Granby etc. 

 

They can be picked at random or only have relevance to the person choising them. The codewords for the three types of target marking used by the RAF Pathfinders in WW2 were chosen by AVM Bennett asking his three typists where they were from, hence Newhaven, Parramatta and Wanginui. 

 

The point seems to have been rather lost on the Americans recently. They used to follow it - Arc Light, Linebacker, El Dorado Canyon etc but then kind of veered off into Operation Bomb The C**p Out Of Iraq and similar. 

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  • 7 months later...

What scares me in this kit is its nose / side fuselage  shapes, looking like a "Diamond" ,  perhaps the front sides fuselage be too wide .

That not occurs on the Italeri Tornado, for example, being its front sides of the  fuselage straight .

SouthViper 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/28/2021 at 1:26 PM, alhenderson said:

Regarding books, I have a few..

 

  • Tornado - Warlord, by Ian Black.  Is a coffee-table type photographic tribute to the Tornado, covering the whole 40+ years of RAF operations.  Some lovely pictures in here, little pricey - around £40 I think but worth it IMO.
  • Desert Air Force by Ian Black, published by Osprey.  Pictures of Gulf War a/c covering many nations, but has a section on RAF Tornados.
  • Desert Fist, by Ian Black, published by Airlife.  Similar to above.
  • Haynes RAF Tornado manual, also by Ian Black.
  • Tornado, by - you've guessed it - Ian Black!  Another Airlife picture style book covering all operators and variants.

The Osprey/Airlife ones can probably be had on eBay and various other second hand book sites.  I certainly wasn't lacking for reference pictures when I did my 1:72 Revell build last year 🙂

 

Al.

Try Ian s website https://www.firestreakbooks.com/  he's a nice guy Ex phantom Navigator Lightning an Tornado F3 and Virgin Atlantic Pilot.

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