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Which BS? Hemp color for wide body aircrafts of RAF during 80's


clumsy
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Hello all,

 

I am writing this message to request your help in clarifying the color codes used for RAF during 80's.

Some sources use BS4800 and some BS381C for the hemp color of the Victor, Nimrod etc. during 80's and at Desert Storm.

Especially most of the paint manufacturers use 381C for the labelling where Gunze/GSI and Sovereign use 4800 for it.

(Also the IPMS Color Cross-Reference Guide by David Klaus contains the BS2660 which is replaced by BS4800, so again not the BS381C for the hemp color.)

 

Would someone please explain me which standart is officially used by RAF at those times to determine the hemp color, 4800(2660 by then) or 381C?

 

This might also be helpful to clarify the similar confusion for the Tornado ADV with early colors.

I would appreciate a lot if I could get some help on this matter.

 

Thank You very much in advance,

Arkut

 

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BS381C 389 Camouflage Beige. 

The shade seems to have originated in BS4800 and incorporated into BS381 when it was identified as a suitable colour. 

It isn't unheard of for specific colours to move across standards. 

J

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BS381c isn’t a colour it’s a standard that applies to a collective of colours. 389 is the actual colour identifier. If you were to quote the full and proper name it would be 

 

BS381c-389- camouflage beige 

 

BS4800 is another collection of colours but there is some crossover between the two.  If your interested do a google search to find out what the difference is between the two standards.

 

 

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6 hours ago, clumsy said:

Well then, what I get from your information is that it has been always the BS 381C for the hemp color and BS4800 had never been used.

Thank you,

Arkut

My memory is that Hemp was in BS4800 but wasn't called Hemp.  I think it was listed as 10B21 Lizard Grey.

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BS381C specifies colours used in identification, coding and other special purposes, especially in the military.....

 

 

BS4800 specifies colours of paint for building and construction works. This is a key reference for specifying a particular paint colour to use in the refurbishment of buildings – especially at Local Authority level or for major works, such as office blocks, airports, schools and hospitals.

 

So are 

BS381c-389 ‘Camouflage Beige’

BS4800-10B21 ‘Lizard Grey’,

the same colour just with different names to differentiate them between the two standards?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, scotthldr said:

So are 

BS381c-389 ‘Camouflage Beige’

BS4800-10B21 ‘Lizard Grey’,

the same colour just with different names to differentiate them between the two standards?

Looking at them on this page, I'd say, yes, as near as damn.

Steve.

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Hello all,

 

Thank you very much for your contributing efforts.

 

Unfortunately I assume that my question was not totally clear.

 

I need to explain that I am aware of the exact color code of the hemp color with their official names described on the color fan which is printed by e-paint.co.uk website.

(I need to say that the actual color chips differ a bit even to an uneducated eye like mine.)

 

So I actually new that exact coding of the color for each standart.

 

I am also aware that there are different standards hence the name is BS; and yes this is British Standart if my memory does not trick me.

 

I would like to repeat my question with new ones if I may:

 

Which standart had been used in the 80's by RAF for the Nimrod, Victor etc for the upper camouflage?

 

Had it been like they applied the BS 4800/10B21 at first and then had come up with a new color of BS381C/389?

 

In another ways, when did BS381C/389 appear in the BS381C system/standart, in 1980, 1988 or 1996 edition? (eg. 388 Beige had not been there in the 1980 edition)

 

Had it been always the BS381C/389 from the beginning? 

 

I am confused in this area as the IPMS Color Cross-Reference book written by David Klaus (edition 8th on September 1993) contains some information which might lead to the assumption that the 1980 edition of BS381C might not contain the color 389. Please refer to pages: 

1- 82 (where BS2660 {ex version of 4800} is used to describe the hemp color for the camouflage of Nimrod, Victor etc.) and

2- 109 (where an Appendix exists for the cross reference of BS381C between RAL and FS and in which color 389 does not exist. Also there is a description that some chips were obsolete like 388 and that is a number before 389)

 

And again put the information in that where majority of the manufacturers use BS138C version for the labelling Sovereign Hobbies and Gunze/GSI use BS4800 for their labelling.

 

I hope I am not confusing you with language barrier as English is not my mother language.

 

As said before this information might well serve the same confusing information for the Tornado ADV version or even the F-4s.

 

Thank you again for your patience and efforts.

 

Cheers,

Arkut

Edited by clumsy
correction on misspell and new information
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IIRC Camouflage Beige 389 appeared in the 1988 revision of BS381c. 

 

This is exactly the same colour listed as 10 B 21 in the BS4800 standard, so there were no two different colours.

Simply, when the RAF searched for a suitable new colour for the Nimrod fleet they ended up finding a suitable one in the BS4800 standard and adopted it.

 After the introduction of this colour into service with the RAF, it was added to the BS381c catalogue as part of the closest revision. 

 

A note on names: colours in BS4800 do not have official names, the names generally found are those used by paint manufacturers for that particular colour so more than one name may be found to describe the same colour. When 10 B 21 was selected for the Nimrod, one of the manufacturers had given the name Hemp to their paint matching this code, so the name stuck

 

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Hi,

 

Thank you very much sharing the supporting information. 

After writing my last message I continued to search the available sources as much as  I could via internet and hard copies. I was also assuming the same. But without any supportive input being alone is sometimes not enough to conclude on a subject.

 

And with your input it is now more clear. BS4800 was used as a source and later the color on that source was adopted in the BS 381C.

This might have also happened for other types like Tornado ADV and some F-4 painting schemes.

 

I know that I do not have to be insane about the hue of the colors but at the end it is just a personal matter of spending your free time and getting used to handle the resources.

 

Thank you very much again for helping in this matter and get to a more reliable solution.

 

Cheers,

Arkut

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On 5/30/2021 at 9:13 AM, clumsy said:

Hi,

 

Thank you very much sharing the supporting information. 

After writing my last message I continued to search the available sources as much as  I could via internet and hard copies. I was also assuming the same. But without any supportive input being alone is sometimes not enough to conclude on a subject.

 

And with your input it is now more clear. BS4800 was used as a source and later the color on that source was adopted in the BS 381C.

This might have also happened for other types like Tornado ADV and some F-4 painting schemes.

 

I know that I do not have to be insane about the hue of the colors but at the end it is just a personal matter of spending your free time and getting used to handle the resources.

 

Thank you very much again for helping in this matter and get to a more reliable solution.

 

Cheers,

Arkut

 

 

Yes, the same process occured in two other occasions: for Light Aircraft Grey in the mid '60s and for Barley/Camouflage Grey in the mid '80s. In both cases a colour was chosen for RAF camouflage use from a different standard and this was later incorporated in BS381c

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As our Victor K.2's were repainted from green/grey/white they were referred to having been painted in Hemp/Light Aircraft grey therefore, I would go with the BS381C as the preferred document.

 

XVTonker :pilot:

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