Spitfire XII - my next Spitfire question.

[dad's lad]

I've read the various threads on Britmodeller regarding the lack of a Spitfire XII in 1/72 and the various options for making one but I'd like some simplification of where the various bits would come from to do my own kitbash.

 

I understand that I need the C wing which I can get from the Airfix Vc.

 

I understand that I need a Griffon engine and 5-blade prop which I can get from a Fujimi XIV

 

Where I'm confused is with the rest of it. Could I also use the Vc fuselage as far back as the tail?

Which mark of Spitfire would I need to source the tail (fin and rudder) from?

 

I believe that the retractable tailwheel was not fitted to all airframes.

 

Many thanks.

Clive.

[Troy Smith]

2 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

I've read the various threads on Britmodeller regarding the lack of a Spitfire XII in 1/72 and the various options for making one but I'd like some simplification of where the various bits would come from to do my own kitbash.

Hmm, this will get uou a load of answers.

2 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

 

I understand that I need the C wing which I can get from the Airfix Vc.

could do, except  the Vc kit has the wrong(wide) cannon blisters

2 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

 

I understand that I need a Griffon engine and 5-blade prop which I can get from a Fujimi XIV

No.  4 blade prop,  The  XVI and other Griffon 60 engines are longer.     The better staring point is a Seafire  XV. Same basic engine , single stage Griffon.

 

2 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

 

Where I'm confused is with the rest of it. Could I also use the Vc fuselage as far back as the tail?

the Spitire fuselage is bascially the same from firewll to rudder post up to the broad fin on the XIV.

2 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

Which mark of Spitfire would I need to source the tail (fin and rudder) from?

the fin is the same. the rudder is the broade pointed one

2 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

 

I believe that the retractable tailwheel was not fitted to all airframes.

 

Many thanks.

Clive.

correct, some earlier have a fixed tailwheel.

 

There is no simple answer.

@steh2o  started this, which will answer many deatil questios

 

but if you google Spitfire XII britmodeller there is loads of info.  

 

other folks who can add in detail @Beard@The wooksta V2.0 @72modeler  for specifically 72nd.

 

 

[Graham Boak]

The Mk.XII had a different (shorter) Griffon and a 4-blade prop.  The fuselage was new to the Mk.XII being flush rivetted, so a Mk.VIII would be a more appropriate donor.  Half the Mk,XIIs had tail units from the end of Mk.V production, the other half had tail units from the beginning of Mk.VIII production.

 

 

 

 

[dad's lad]

Thanks so much guys, I missed the 4 blade. I've already managed to change the blisters from the Airfix kit for a Seafire that I'm making.

Troy,,
I'd already been through those threads but as I said, I just needed everything simplifying, sometimes less is more.

 

Regards

 

Clive.

[Troy Smith]

13 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

'd already been through those threads but as I said, I just needed everything simplifying, sometimes less is more.

Ah. OK.  Worth mentiong that you have, and then asking for clarificaion.    There is no really easy way.    the easiest IIRC was using a Sword Seafire XV,  with a new rudder (all the eduard kits have 2) adding a new oil cooler and mageneto bulge, and eliminating the hook.  

 

For accuracy, I'd have started with the Eduard VIII

 

if you have started using a Airfix Vc,   really it then about adding a new nose from firewall onwards, and a new rudder, and picking an earlier XII with the fixed tailwheel. (Again, the Eduard kit maye wll have spares, you just need some doors and retractable tailwheel for a retractable unit)

I have memories that the Fujumi XIV is not great shapewise, or that it's a PITA to assemble.   But still plenty of time for other Spit-o-holics to chime in.

 

cheers

T

[dad's lad]

5 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Ah. OK.  Worth mentiong that you have, and then asking for clarificaion.   

Apologies, I thought I'd made it clear when I said "I've read the various threads on Britmodeller regarding the lack of a Spitfire XII in 1/72 and the various options for making one but I'd like some simplification"

 

Thanks for you help though.

Clive

[Troy Smith]

25 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

Apologies, I thought I'd made it clear when I said "I've read the various threads on Britmodeller regarding the lack of a Spitfire XII in 1/72 and the various options for making one but I'd like some simplification"

 

Thanks for you help though.

Clive

me NOT paying attention. Apologies. Too early.   In the above I forgot you need a small circular oil cooler, though IIRC this  is an alterante part in some boxings in the AirfixMk.I/II/Va spitfire, EDIT If using the Eduard VIII.  The Airfix Vc kit has the right bit. Doh

[dad's lad]

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

me NOT paying attention. Apologies. Too early.   In the above I forgot you need a small circular oil cooler, though IIRC this  is an alterante part in some boxings in the AirfixMk.I/II/Va spitfire,

It's really no problem Troy, we've all been there (I'm 62 so I can blame my age!!)

 

I have a bunch of Spitfies (mainly Airfix as is my wont) so wouldn't necessarily be looking to buy anything more if I can use what I've got. I do have a couple of Hasegawa VIII's that I could probably start from. Just a suitable prop to source now.

 

Clive.

[Graham Boak]

Hasegawa Mk.VIII is short and slim in the rear.  Better to use an Airfix fuselage and sand it smooth (if it needs it).  Hasegawa/Airfix prop will do but still leaves spinner.  Suspect that from Airfix PR Mk.XIX would do but tail is wrong and wing chord too large on the fuselage (as is the Mk.IX), so not a good starting point otherwise.  Engine cowling would do, modified.  Mk.XII rudders are around on all sorts of kits, but you will want the later elevators with extended horn balance I believe.

[rossm]

15 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

........................  Hasegawa/Airfix prop will do but still leaves spinner.  .....................

 

I thought the Griffon rotated the other way?

[dad's lad]

8 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Hasegawa Mk.VIII is short and slim in the rear.  Better to use an Airfix fuselage and sand it smooth (if it needs it).  Hasegawa/Airfix prop will do but still leaves spinner.  Suspect that from Airfix PR Mk.XIX would do but tail is wrong and wing chord too large on the fuselage (as is the Mk.IX), so not a good starting point otherwise.  Engine cowling would do, modified.  Mk.XII rudders are around on all sorts of kits, but you will want the later elevators with extended horn balance I believe.

Thanks Graham, can you just clarify when you say "engine cowling will do, modified", which kit are you referring to? Sorry for being a pain but following some of these threads really seems complicated (I find F-86 wings and F-16 blocks to be equally confabulating!!)

 

 I'm just the simple sort who would just like to know what parts from what mark of Spitfire I need to use without any specific kit needing to be found that I may not already have. Having said that, I think I can get the elevators from the AZ Mk.IX which has 2 sets.

 

Nobody will be seeing my finished article so as long as it looks approximately like a Mk.XII with the differences noticeable alongside the other marks, I'll be happy.

 

Clive.

[dad's lad]

11 minutes ago, rossm said:

 

I thought the Griffon rotated the other way?

Would an Airfix Firefly prop/spinner be any use?

Clive

[stevehnz]

I don't know if you have seen these threads from the Edgar Brooks Memorial GB 5 years ago. I did a XII from a Ventura Seafire XV, @Cookenbacher did a couple from different kits/conversions, there might be some ideas in these for you if you haven't seen them.

Steve.

[Giorgio N]

7 minutes ago, dad's lad said:

Would an Airfix Firefly prop/spinner be any use?

Clive

 

Not really, the shape of the blades is very different. Better start from a 5 blade Griffon Spitfire propeller, like the Airfix Mk.22. Of course a Seafure XV would be even better as could provide the whole fuselage as well as spinner and prop.

[Michael louey]

36 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Hasegawa Mk.VIII is short and slim in the rear.  Better to use an Airfix fuselage and sand it smooth (if it needs it).  Hasegawa/Airfix prop will do but still leaves spinner.  Suspect that from Airfix PR Mk.XIX would do but tail is wrong and wing chord too large on the fuselage (as is the Mk.IX), so not a good starting point otherwise.  Engine cowling would do, modified.  Mk.XII rudders are around on all sorts of kits, but you will want the later elevators with extended horn balance I believe.

Just a note, I'm pretty sure the Mk XII Griffon rotates the opposite way to a Merlin so any blades would need their pitch changed.

[dad's lad]

19 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

I don't know if you have seen these threads from the Edgar Brooks Memorial GB 5 years ago. I did a XII from a Ventura Seafire XV, @Cookenbacher did a couple for different kits/conversions, there might be some ideas in these for you if you haven't seen them.

Steve.

I somehow missed those Steve, I'll devour them eagerly for tips.

 

Clive

[malpaso]

Whilst the Eduard 8 would give an excellent fuselage, you would need a mk9 wing for the correct ailerons (shorter type on 8, 14 & 18).

 

There is also an Aeroclub vacform conversion which you could just the nose, it gives the correct prop and exhausts and would be no more challenging to use then cobbling together a short nose from any of the other donors.

 

Brigade did an injection moulded conversion which at least supplies decals.  If the plastic parts are similar to their trainer then be afraid!

 

Alternatively keep looking for the Xtrakit XII.  They are out there, I’ve got two in the last few years and each was under a tenner.

[FinnAndersen]

Wellcome to the XII party. Having done 4 XII's and the prototype DP845, I consider myself a bit of an expert 🙂

 

Having done the brigade conversion and the OOP Paragon + the CMR resin job, the place I would start to day would be with the nose from Seafire XV grafted to an Eduard VIII. This way you have an accurate basis for your model. You will of course need to change the starboard radiator to an V-ish oilcooler, but that's not too difficult.

 

Have a look at what I did for my Rima II, it might inspire. And do yourself the favour of reading though the many threads on XII here on BM

Happy modelling

 

Finn

[Beard]

The simplest way to do a XII in 1/72 is:

1) buy a Sword Seafire XV (late) - the one with the arrestor hook under the rudder

2) assemble the fuselage, removing any Seafire strengthening bits (I can't remember if the XV kit has any, or not, but they'd need to go) and prop.

3) replace the wings with those from an AZ MkIX (which fit very well). Use the appropriate cannon bulges

4) cut off the rudder and replace with a pointed one from a MkIX

5) fill the left-hand (looking from the cockpit) radiator 'pit' and replace with an oil cooler from a MkV.

6) add the magneto bulge between the rocker bulges and just behind the prop. I used a small MkIX cannon bulge from an AZ kit, slightly reshaped.

7) use the later tailplanes from an Eduard or AZ MkIX

I *think* that's all.

[The wooksta V2.0]

I'd use a similar recipe, although using the spare C wing from the Sword Seafire III.

 

But the suggestion of using an Eduard VIII is intriguing. Apart from the engine, the only real issues are the ailerons, but the kit gives you the ones from the MK.IX anyway, so a minor surgical cut is all you need there. Oil cooler spare from the Airfix Vc, once the bath is filled in. Then you just need a short Grifffon.  One of the spare fuselages in either of the Sword Seafire XV or XVII kits with a Quickboost resin top cowl. They also do a five blade Grifffon prop which could be modified using the one in the Sword Seafire as a pattern.

 

The engine swap would also work with the Airfix Vc, if you were to build one of the XIIs built from Vc airframes. Graham may have the serials to hand.

[Graham Boak]

EN221 to238 and 601-637.  Fixed tailwheel

MB794-805, 829-863 and 875-883.  Retractable tailwheel.

The drawing in Spitfire The History shows the early tailplane but I have my doubts.

[The wooksta V2.0]

TBH, it's not too difficult to convert the earlier tailplanes. Either fill and rescribe, or chop the elevators off a set of spare AZ or Eduard late tailplanes and add to the suitably modified Vc tailplanes. 

 

The good thing about these conversions is that a lot of kits are giving the relevant necessary spares in addition to a complete Spitfire.

[Michael louey]

The wikipedia article mentions the Mark XII airframes based on the Mk VIII inherited the leading edge fuel tanks so the Eduard Spitfire would have these prescribed though the work on the ailerons and wing cooler are still required. If using a Mk V as a basis to do a Mk VIII based XII, the fuel tanks would need to be scribed if you were fussed by it.

 

Regards

 

Michael

[Giorgio N]

37 minutes ago, Michael louey said:

The wikipedia article mentions the Mark XII airframes based on the Mk VIII inherited the leading edge fuel tanks so the Eduard Spitfire would have these prescribed though the work on the ailerons and wing cooler are still required. If using a Mk V as a basis to do a Mk VIII based XII, the fuel tanks would need to be scribed if you were fussed by it.

 

Regards

 

Michael

 

No XII was "based" on the Mk.VIII and no XII had short ailerons or leading edge tanks.

[PhantomBigStu]

I have a question, I have the following:

Revell Vb (the recent tool)

AZ IX/XVI 

Sword XIV

Do I have the requisite parts for a XII with the right butchering?