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Flying Legends 2021 - Your opinion on the ticket-prices?


spruecutter96

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Gutting. I was concerned any delay in lifting of restrictions might cause the show to cancel, but I didn't expect Legends to jump first. Massively disappointing.... :(

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55 minutes ago, Seamus said:

I didn't expect Legends to jump first

Errm.... RIAT 2021 at RAF Fairford was cancelled a few months ago. The Cosford airshow was pushed back to later in the year a while ago. Flying Legends are essentially the last to jump.

 

Chris. 

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1 minute ago, spruecutter96 said:

Errm.... RIAT 2021 at RAF Fairford was cancelled a few months ago. The Cosford airshow was pushed back to later in the year a while ago. Flying Legends are essentially the last to jump.

 

Chris. 


I meant jump before a firm decision was made regarding the 21st June. Sadly I'm all too well aware of RIAT's cancellation... :(

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On 5/20/2021 at 12:02 PM, Paul J said:

Taking in to account the high cost of operating exotic aeroplanes and the organisation of the event, maybe that price is so so but I also feel its priced as that to limit the amount of attendees on account of the size of the airfield and traffic control.  Shame,  but I believe the hey days of the Duxford shows are now gone sadly.

Traffic Control, there currently is none...........

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My turn to moan.

 

I have just had my refund, £45 instead of £50.

When I enquired why, it is because they are "unable" to give the booking fee back, as stated in the booking conditions. Really?

So I have paid £5 for nothing, which although of minor consequence, feels wrong.

I won't bother with Flying Legends again. I would rather stand outside to take photos

Andy

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1 hour ago, Red Dot said:

I won't bother with Flying Legends again. I would rather stand outside to take photos

 

Not going again because you didn't read the small print and lost £5? Seems like cutting one's nose off to spite one's face to be honest.

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Jamie, as a good Scot you should know that the smaller the grievance the more joy to be had from the moan.  In truth, a comment befitting all the inhabitants of our fair isles.  No comment on the membership of this site, other than to ask how many other websites have a Grump of the day thread of this one's size...

 

Of course, standing outside to get your photos does mean the quality of the shows will reduce because of the loss of income to the organisers and hence performers, but that's not his problem, is it?  Not today, and it lays up an good excuse for a moan in the future.  "These modern airshows are nowhere near as good as the ones I used to go and stand outside of, in the good old days..."

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4 hours ago, Red Dot said:

When I enquired why, it is because they are "unable" to give the booking fee back, as stated in the booking conditions. Really?

Hmm that seems a bit 'off' to me - if I choose to cancel a booking, fair enough. If the organiser chooses to cancel, it should come out of their pocket not mine. I have knowledge of two other organiser cancelled events, and in both cases full refunds were provided.

 

OK, its only £5 but there's a principle here - if the Covid stricken events industry wants people to start booking while there is still a risk of cancellation, then people need to be sure they will get their money back or they're not going to book. 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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4 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Not going again because you didn't read the small print and lost £5? Seems like cutting one's nose off to spite one's face to be honest.

Not really Jamie. Yes the small print says that, but i have since been told that the booking fee is to cover their set up costs. If so, why is it a booking fee and not just part of the ticket price. 

 

It all smacks of trying to show a low ticket price and hiking it by hidden means. Sort of like Ryanair and Easyjet.

 

Flying Legends cancelled the show and should refund in full. That is fair, and shows good faith to the customers

 

Andy

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4 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Of course, standing outside to get your photos does mean the quality of the shows will reduce because of the loss of income to the organisers and hence performers, but that's not his problem, is it?  Not today, and it lays up an good excuse for a moan in the future. 

Of all the reasons for airshows being not as "good as they used to be", the decision of a few individuals to watch from a nearby field for free is VERY far down the list of contributory factors.

 

Consider these influences:

 

The global recession of 2008 (still causing huge waves in defence-spending, 13 years later), COVID-19 and its attendant cost globally (admittedly, a very recent addition), the air-forces of most nations using a much smaller number of aircraft-types compared to 30 years ago (cutting costs, again), the massive budget-constraints suffered by most air-forces, the cost of flying any airframe thousand of miles to attend, the huge insurance-charges increase to airshow management post-Shoreham, people using the Internet rather than going to events, the fact that many people would consider attending an airshow as simply not being "trendy" and somewhat beneath them (their attitude, not mine!), etc, etc. Brexit probably won't help the situation, either. 

 

Chris.         

 

PS: Folks might well remember the visits of the B-2 Stealth Bomber to Fairford over the years. Cost to the American tax-payer? Many millions of dollars. Keeping the B-2 in the air for one hour costs approximately $95,0000. Flying from Whiteman air-force base in Missouri to RAF Fairford in a sub-sonic aircraft and then returning to its base takes how long? Don't be surprised if we don't see the Stealth Bomber at a UK airshow again. Even if the flight is chalked up as a training-operation, I would think the US air-force will be politely declining from now on.... but that's just an educated guess on my part, admittedly.   

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6 hours ago, Red Dot said:

When I enquired why, it is because they are "unable" to give the booking fee back, as stated in the booking conditions. Really?

 

That's normal for pretty much any event where tickets are bought online - the booking fee is almost always non-refundable.

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19 minutes ago, spruecutter96 said:

Of all the reasons for airshows being not as "good as they used to be", the decision of a few individuals to watch from a nearby field for free is VERY far down the list of contributory factors.

 

Consider these influences:

Cold war ended. Don't need to dig any further than that. It already went 'downhill' from 1993-1994 - even during the Balkan conflict countries were scraping the barrel to keep units deployed active.

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I agree with Alt-92.  Other reasons no doubt have their input, though not being though "trendy" is pretty unlikely - it never was.  But the bottom line is that they have to be paid for, and standing outside enjoying the benefits but contributing nothing is pretty despicable.

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10 hours ago, lasermonkey said:

the head honcho at Shuttleworth used to go out there with a collection bucket and guilt them into coughing up. Apparently it was quite successful.

I would imagine some folks would give some money and others would suggest he engages in rapid travel....

 

Chris. 

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Fifty quid does seem a lot but I'd happily pay it. As others have pointed out putting on an airshow is wildly expensive. So I'd rather pay a little more so it can take place at all. Besides for someone like me the tickets would be least expensive bit. Flights, accommodation, car rental etc would dwarf the ticket price. I went to Oshkhosh a few years ago. I don't even want to remember how much that cost. Well into the thousands. 

 

I'd be more worried about airshows being cancelled permanently because the organisers cannot break even. They need to cover their costs but not charge a price that would put punters off. It's a balancing act. 

 

I wonder if the heyday of the airshow is over? 

Edited by noelh
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Neighbours have not chosen to travel any long distance to choose to stand in potentially dangerous places.  People who own cars (not cheap) and spend money on expensive fuel to travel, and operate expensive cameras, but then plead poverty to be unable to support the event - no, I don't think my comment is OTT in the slightest.   Your words described behaviour that is selfish and short-sighted,  There may be a lot of it about but that doesn't make it any more pleasant.  I don't see any contradiction of my choice of words.    If people don't pay for airshows there will be no air shows.  Those who gain their satisfaction in this way are gaining it at the expense of others.  The biological term is parasites, but in biology there is no morality.  Humans do have the potential for more.

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What it really boils down to is if people want to support vintage aviation or not.

 

Those who do, will pay for the tickets, those who don't really care, won't. 

 

Ticket prices for niche events like flying legends are only really likely to increase. As aircraft get older they get more expensive to operate and the skills and know-how required to operate, maintain and restore them diminishes with the natural loss of the people who spent their careers working on the aircraft operationally.

 

The cost of flying has dramatically increased, particularly as the cost of avgas has increased nearly 5 fold in the last 20 years. The cost of something as simple as a wing bolt can be a few hundred pounds - whatever you think the cost of making something for aerospace is, add a couple zeros on the end (trust me, I work in the aerospace industry).

 

Im not sure why any aviaition modeller would complain about spending £50 to see perhaps 25 vintage aircraft, whilst simultaneously spending £30 on a plastic scale kit. I've spent more than £50 on models when I've been to Flying Legends, the past few times (as have a few fellow modellers!)... 

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I think Standing outside was one of the issues raised by the Shoreham inquiries.  The show at Old Sarum had to be cancelled, at least in part, because the organisers couldn’t be in control of those congregating on nearby hills.

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I will stand outside if i can get better photos, but am also happy to go into shows too, carrying my expensive camera gear along the way!

 

My earlier point about refunds in full still stands though, as i feel this is the right thing to do if the show organisers cancel the event. These days, we as consumers, are too easily misled by "booking fees". Interestingly, I was refunded a further £3 after i enquired what the booking fee was actually used for.

 

Andy

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Been a while since seeing what the replies were since my last post... and I stand by what I've said, the last time I went was 2017 and it was £35 with no charge for parking, of course this was 4 years ago so inflation etc but on the flip side is the museum side that many seem to forget, as of today the minimum you can pay for a normal day at Duxford is £22.50 so when combined it is well worth it.

I can afford to pay the £50 but that is not the point, it's whether it's value for money and when compared to Duxford it does show poor value, I think the bit that irks me is the large difference in prices between the 2, even if the event hasn't taken place for 2 years at Duxford.  I do like to support vintage aviation but there is a cut off point when at some point the mickey is being taken, some won't be able to afford it and is now priced them out of it, having said that Fairford was £42 in 2017, was all day though and a substantially bigger scale. At the end of the day though everything seems to be going up so much but my pay rise never seems to follow suit 🤣

 

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On 06/06/2021 at 11:23, Toe said:

I can afford to pay the £50 but that is not the point, it's whether it's value for money and when compared to Duxford it does show poor value,

 

 

12 hours ago, Beermonster1958 said:

She and I have both decided that, based on what we know about the new venue, it's not very good value compared to the Duxford event. 

 

I can't disagree with either of these points.

 

The Duxford venue was superb as it had access to the museu too. I believe access to the flight line is included in the Sywell Flying Legends prices (whereas it wasn't for Duxford). 

 

My biggest concern is that if these events are pushed out of the larger, more mainstream airfields, is the cost going to rise further as they try to cover rising costs with fewer ticket numbers? I really hope not. I'm well aware that a lot of vintage aircraft operators make little to no profit and many pilots, ground crew and engineers give up a lot of their free time to support flying.

 

On top of that, it's concerning as the increase in cost is likely to drive away the more "casual" spectators (and therefore families), getting children interested in historic aircraft is incredibly important as they are the future of historic aviation.

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