Soviet 2 tone camouflage

[Geo1966]

I am currently building a 1/35 T-34/76 and am toying with the idea of doing it in a 2 tone camouflage (similar to the below). My question is, would this have been a standard colour and if so what are my options i.e. Tamiya, Vallejo, etc? Also would this have been factory or field applied?

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

George

[Pin]

Two tone camouflage was not standard and field applied.

Paints are 

4БО - protective green

7К  - earth yellow

6К - dark green

and everything in-between

 

Sorry, Russian only (but you know how to use online translator, right?)

http://tankfront.ru/ussr/camouflage.html

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Geo1966 said:

My question is, would this have been a standard colour and if so what are my options i.e. Tamiya, Vallejo, etc?

this is in English, 

http://www.4bogreen.com/colors

 

Gives FS595 close matches.   Tamiya only do a limited range of colours, so it would be a mix, Vallejo may have a match, but it's finding it, I don't really trust Vallejo's stated matches. 

Having got very lucky and picked up a FS595 deck cheap, I had a look for vallejo matches for the FS 595, not found any from the ones I have, but as noted in the 4BO, the nature of application did could and did change the base colour.

 

And, last year, I as asking the same question (note, for armour questions, Missing Lynx is better site)

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?p=1600428#p1600428

 

note this collection of photos of T-34 in camo

https://vfl.ru/albums/38934.html

 

I also found the 1/48th Hobby Boss T-34 had decals for the tank in the profile

 

and some digging turned up this

 

There are other pics that show the pattern better.

 

I asked the same question about the KV-1 and BT-5,  and camouflaged soviet tanks are not that common, but camo was used.  

 

HTH

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Pin said:

Two tone camouflage was not standard and field applied.

Paints are 

4БО - protective green

7К  - earth yellow

6К - dark green

and everything in-between

 

Sorry, Russian only (but you know how to use online translator, right?)

http://tankfront.ru/ussr/camouflage.html

from this,   http://www.4bogreen.com/colors, 6K is dark brown.

 

@Geo1966, 4BO green is the standard basic tank colour (just for clarity)

 

I've copied in the 4BO link for ease of reference.   (I've not run @Pin link through the translator, so may have additional info) but 4BO green is Neil Stokes site, and he does various books on Soviet armour.

 

"Camouflage Colors

In the fall of 1939, the RKKA adopted a system of camouflage colors to be applied over the Protective Green 4BO base coat.  Up to two additional colors could be used:

Dark Brown 6K, sometimes denoted as 6RP, was a dark earth brown similar to FS30117.

Yellow Earth 7K was a light sand color close to FS23578.

Both paints were supplied in form of thick paste that was diluted with gasoline, kerosene or a special drying oil.  Differences in the dilution medium and/or the mixing proportions caused significant variations in the final colors.

 

One or both camouflage colors in various patterns were used, depending upon the particular region within the Soviet Union.  The table on page 436 of KV - Technical History and Variants gives the breakdown of the different camouflage colors, based upon the various Military Districts.

 

For winter operations in areas where snow was typical, all vehicles were to be painted in overall white.

This system of camouflage was in effect when German forces invaded the Soviet Union on June 22nd 1941.  However, photographs suggest that few units had actually implemented the schemes, and most vehicles appeared in overall Protective Green 4BO in the summer and fall of 1941.  By the early winter, units had begun to apply camouflage to their vehicles but due to the chaotic conditions that prevailed in the latter months of 1941, the officially prescribed schemes were often ignored and numerous improvised schemes appeared.

 

The RKKA therefore instituted new regulations in the early winter of 1941/42.  The regional schemes were abandoned in favor of terrain-specific guidelines, again using Dark Brown 6K and Yellow Earth 7K over Protective Green 4BO.  Dark Brown 6K was to be used to cover 15-30% of a vehicle's surface, in large patches to simulate the effect of tree trunks in wooded terrain.  Yellow Earth 6K was to be used to cover 15-30% of the surface in areas of ploughed fields or dry earth.

For winter camouflage, a special water-based paint designated Flat White B was issued, to be applied over the existing camouflage.  The practice of painting the entire vehicle white was discouraged.  Instead, green areas were to be covered completely and dark brown or yellow earth areas were to be covered with a criss-cross pattern of white stripes, applied by hand.  In practice however, these guidelines were rarely followed exactly, and vehicles appeared with large patches of white applied irregularly over the other colors, and sometimes in overall white.

Camouflage colors were applied by the individual vehicle crews using brushes, so there was little uniformity between vehicles, even within the same unit.  Some crews feathered the edges between the different colors using brushes dampened with gasoline or kerosene, while others left 'hard' edges between the colors.

Photographs indicate that most vehicles continued to appear in overall Protective Green 4BO through 1942 and 1943, with varying levels of white applied during the winter months.  In the spring and summer of 1944 however, camouflage colors became more common, though many vehicles still appeared in overall green until the end of the war.

Further Reading

The section Color Schemes on page 434 of KV - Technical History and Variants provides considerably more detail, as it applies to the KV series heavy tanks.

The best book dealing specifically with the subject is Camouflage of the Tanks of the Red Army 1930-1945 by Maxim Kolomiyets and Il’ya Moschanskiy, translated by Stephen Sewell, published by Armada Vertical 1999.  Unfortunately this book is out of print, though it can be found occasionally on eBay or Amazon."

 

 

FWIW, digital displays of those two FS595

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=30117+23578

 

though from my fan deck, the brown is darker.  

 

 

[Steben]

https://www.e-paint.co.uk/colour-alternatives.asp?cRange=Federal Standard 595C&cRef=30117&metallic2=False&cDescription=Earth red / International brown

 

https://www.e-paint.co.uk/colour-alternatives.asp?cRange=Federal Standard 595C&cRef=23578&metallic2=False&cDescription=Cream
 

This the same site but with both mentioned 4BO tints added
http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=34257+34102+30117+23578

Edited May 18, 2021 by Steben

[Geo1966]

Thanks for all the great information Gents.

 

I have Ammo Mig and Vallejo 4BO, which are quite different to each other, but from what you have said that is not necessarily wrong depending on the mixing prior to application.

 

A quick search for 6K Russian brown has revealed that Ammo and Vallejo produce this colour. Again they look quite different to each other, but i will probably go for one of these. 

 

Will probably hand paint the brown cam, so prefer to buy something off the shelf rather than mix it.

 

Thanks again,

George

[AdamT87]

Strangely enough I was toying with the idea of a two tone camouflage scheme on either a T-34 or KV-1 yesterday myself. I was reading through the AK Real Colors of WWII Armor book and there were a couple of photos one of a T-34 the other a KV-1 in the field using the AK Real Color Sand 7k colour along with 4BO. I thought it would make a nice change to the 4BO only standard scheme. 

 

Be interesting to see your end result 🙂

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Geo1966 said:

but from what you have said that is not necessarily wrong depending on the mixing prior to application.

 

4BO green was the base colour. Factory applied.  The disruptive colours were later applied, and thus varied. 

47 minutes ago, AdamT87 said:

I was reading through the AK Real Colors of WWII Armor book and there were a couple of photos one of a T-34 the other a KV-1 in the field using the AK Real Color Sand 7k colour along with 4BO. I thought it would make a nice change to the 4BO only standard scheme. 

Indeed.  But, the AK Real Color book (and paints) are erm, lets says, check against something else. Why? 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235049761-british-olive-drab-no15/page/2/#elControls_3252695_menu

 

From the "author" of the British section.

"Regarding the AK book.  To be honest I am livid and disgusted at the way they published the British section.  My submitted original text was requested to be shortened, which I did.  They then edited that without my knowledge. I sent complete sets of camouflage diagrams with copies of the official orders.  These orders were totally ignored.   Then redrew some of the disruptive diagrams in their own style and colours transposed onto mostly American vehicles, apparently the British didn't have any of their own.  To cap it they then applied a disruptive pattern from one tank type onto another type, it doesn't fit of course.  The ultimate was putting the pattern for the Greek based A10s onto a Crusader which never carried the design nor deployed to Greece.  Samples of their paint were sent to me for assessment.  None were accurate, not even close, which I reported back with larger samples.  New samples then arrived for testing, still not right.  In discussion I discovered that they were matching under 'daylight' lighting!  FGS are they not sharp or what?  I gave them up as a waste of my time, I told them that too.  Rant over."

 

HTH

 

[AdamT87]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

4BO green was the base colour. Factory applied.  The disruptive colours were later applied, and thus varied. 

Indeed.  But, the AK Real Color book (and paints) are erm, lets says, check against something else. Why? 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235049761-british-olive-drab-no15/page/2/#elControls_3252695_menu

 

From the "author" of the British section.

"Regarding the AK book.  To be honest I am livid and disgusted at the way they published the British section.  My submitted original text was requested to be shortened, which I did.  They then edited that without my knowledge. I sent complete sets of camouflage diagrams with copies of the official orders.  These orders were totally ignored.   Then redrew some of the disruptive diagrams in their own style and colours transposed onto mostly American vehicles, apparently the British didn't have any of their own.  To cap it they then applied a disruptive pattern from one tank type onto another type, it doesn't fit of course.  The ultimate was putting the pattern for the Greek based A10s onto a Crusader which never carried the design nor deployed to Greece.  Samples of their paint were sent to me for assessment.  None were accurate, not even close, which I reported back with larger samples.  New samples then arrived for testing, still not right.  In discussion I discovered that they were matching under 'daylight' lighting!  FGS are they not sharp or what?  I gave them up as a waste of my time, I told them that too.  Rant over."

 

HTH

 

Personally I don't mind if colours are not 100% perfect infact I've never really found a range that is. I like the Real Colors as they're lovely to spray and cover really nicely. I don't know if any amendments were made to the British section of the AK Real Colors of WWII Armor book as there is a 2nd edition out now which is the copy I have. I know it has an additional 28 pages and amendments were made. 

 

 

[Foxbat]

I've been using AKAN set 47318 for a couple of years now and like the results. It includes:

• 73125  B - White
• 73063  Protective (another slightly different shade of green, used either as a primer or for painting softskins)
• 73078  3B - Protective Dark Green
• 73120  6K - Dark Brown
• 73121  7K - Yellow Sand
• 73122  4BO - Protective Green

Red Army vehicles that were involved in the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran used 4BO with tiger stripes of 6K and 7K which makes for a different and distinctive scheme. I've used it on a T-26.

 

Andy