Amusing Hobby 1/35 IDF SHOT KAL

[Mike Mcellaney]

I have just had this kit delivered about 1 hour ago, its been on pre order with Jadam Racing since they announced it.

 

This is one I have been wating to get and start, as along with the IDF Sherman variants this is my other favourite IDF tank, I will build this along with the Batch 1 Sherman I have on the go, oh what problems am I letting myself in for?

 

This will be almost OOB as with the AFV version there is no dust cover for the gun mantle, but I have a spare DEF one for the AFV kit so I am hoping it will fit, if it does I will use a spare metal barrel and fume extractor for the AFV kit plus spare decals from the AFV kit

 

I also have a set of Master Club Tracks as back up if the kit ones give me to much problems 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bullbasket]

You don't do things by half do you Mike? I'll follow along with this as it's also on my radar. Good luck with the build.

 

John.

[robgizlu]

Always Love a Centurion, in any guise

Watching with interest

Rob

[RHWinter]

6 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Always Love a Centurion, in any guise

Watching with interest

Rob

Me too!

[AdamT87]

Will be interesting to see how this turns out. I think mine is being delivered today.

 

[Mike Mcellaney]

Well its time for the first update

I have been working on the Shot to bring it up to the same stage in the build as the M51 I am working on at the same time, I have now reached this stage

The build so far has not been without a few issues nothing major just things I would not have expected on a new kit

Almost every part so far has had mould lines to clean up, some parts with sink holes, others with joints not quite meeting up properly and large injector pin plastic to remove, not as bad as the AFV kits but still there on fenders, turret, and the top deck mouldings.

I have found the plastic to be nice to work with very similar to Tamiya plastic, small parts not breaking when removing them from the sprue (anyone who has build the AFV Shot knows how brittle the plastic is) and easy clean up, only found one part I could not use and that was the crow bar total miss moulded, I found a replacment is the spares box (AFV one from their Shot)

I have found that parts locate more positively than with the AFV kits 

So on to the photos

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bullbasket]

Nice going Mike. This is so different to the Mk.lll that I have under way.

 

John.

[Steben]

Late Centurions were just perfect tanks

[Kingsman]

I'll be watching in too.  Got mine last week from the Bovington shop.  I had long coveted an AFV Club Sho't kit but the stubbornly high price plus the cost of replacement wheels and tracks made it unjustifiable for me.

 

This kit still needs new wheels and I have a Brach set left over from a stash clearout but the kit tracks look fine to me.  Other replacement wheels are available: MR Modellbau, Panzer Art and Sovereign 2000 spring to mind.

 

I got the DEF canvas-covered mantlet as the kit doesn't have one, but have no idea if it will fit this kit: in theory of course it should.  I'm not sure about Amusing's novel gun barrel construction, so I'm interested to see how that goes.  Accurate Armour have a naked L7 barrel in resin: aluminium ones are all M68s AFAIK, which have a different fume extractor can.

 

Something IDF discovered in the Golan, and potentially relevant to this kit, was that the relatively thin ends of the track links bent over easily on the rocky terrain.  This made it impossible to remove the track pins if a track repair was needed.  So they would cut off the link ends on every 5th or 6th link so that there were at least some places where the track could be broken for repair.

[Mike Mcellaney]

12 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

I'll be watching in too.  Got mine last week from the Bovington shop.  I had long coveted an AFV Club Sho't kit but the stubbornly high price plus the cost of replacement wheels and tracks made it unjustifiable for me.

 

This kit still needs new wheels and I have a Brach set left over from a stash clearout but the kit tracks look fine to me.  Other replacement wheels are available: MR Modellbau, Panzer Art and Sovereign 2000 spring to mind.

 

I got the DEF canvas-covered mantlet as the kit doesn't have one, but have no idea if it will fit this kit: in theory of course it should.  I'm not sure about Amusing's novel gun barrel construction, so I'm interested to see how that goes.  Accurate Armour have a naked L7 barrel in resin: aluminium ones are all M68s AFAIK, which have a different fume extractor can.

 

Something IDF discovered in the Golan, and potentially relevant to this kit, was that the relatively thin ends of the track links bent over easily on the rocky terrain.  This made it impossible to remove the track pins if a track repair was needed.  So they would cut off the link ends on every 5th or 6th link so that there were at least some places where the track could be broken for repair.

Not sure what you mean about the high cost of the AFV kit its £34.00 against £48.00 for the Amusing Hobby one, tracks AFV ones are £16.00 and the AFV wheels treat them as you would the tyres that come in the Revel Monogram NASCAR kits seal and paint them you can even put decals on them and they won't come off I have some NASCARS that a over 10 year old and still fine

 

The wheels in the Amusing Hobby kit look fine what have you found wrong with them?

 

Well the AFV turret is smaller than the Amusing Hobby one not by much but it is smaller, the DEF mantle is designed to take the AFV barrel as per my original post showing this, the Amusing Hobby one is I agree very unusual assembly of resin and plastic but the barrel is a larger diameter than the AFV one so the DEF Mantel will need to be drilled out to increase the hole size to allow the Amusing Hobby barrel to fit, glad I have the AFV one, but that said I have started to grind away at the Amusing Hobby turret to get it to fit and with a bit of work it will fit

 

Have you any photos of the track as described? Regarding the kit track so far I have been able to get about 20 links together with out breaking the pins off that make them work, if I use the kits tracks it looks like one of two thing either glue them together or take the set out of the other Shot I have and see if I can get two sets of tracks out of four, I wish you the best of luck with the kit track but I do agree with you the do look very nice

 

 

[Mike Mcellaney]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:41 AM, Bullbasket said:

Nice going Mike. This is so different to the Mk.lll that I have under way.

 

John.

Hi John yes it does look a bit different, But I am looking at the possibility of fitting a MKIII Turret to a a MKV hull and upgrading the Turret to IDF Shot Kal standards as this did happen in the IDF 

[Kingsman]

The AFV Club kits used to be a lot more expensive, perhaps when they were harder to find.  They have come down recently with greater availability.  But new wheels and tracks double the price even at £34.  I hate vinyl tracks most particularly because you can never banish the mould lines and they rarely sit or fit properly.  Painting is the least of their problems.  And of course the Dragon DS material has been shown not to last and is no longer being used by them.

 

The Amusing wheels, like all injection Centurion wheels in other kits, lack the 3 prominent reinforcing rings around the inside of the rims.  It is impossible to do in injection plastic without making the rims in thin slices.  This is one reason why AFV Club and some of the Centurion-based APC kits mould most of the rim in vinyl with the tyre.  All the resin wheels except the Legend set have the rings.  Sovereign offer new or distressed wheel sets.  Firestorm used to do replacement tyres and rims for AFV Club but these were more expensive than some of the complete wheel sets and much harder to find.

[Kingsman]

20 hours ago, Mike Mcellaney said:

I am looking at the possibility of fitting a MKIII Turret to a a MKV hull and upgrading the Turret to IDF Shot Kal standards as this did happen in the IDF 

IDF did not buy any Mk3s new.  They were all Mk5s.  I know they captured some earlier Centurions from Jordan and Egypt and hoovered up some second-hand Cents later.  So are you suggesting that Mk3 turrets were used to repair damaged Mk5s?

[Mike Mcellaney]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:38 AM, Das Abteilung said:

IDF did not buy any Mk3s new.  They were all Mk5s.  I know they captured some earlier Centurions from Jordan and Egypt and hoovered up some second-hand Cents later.  So are you suggesting that Mk3 turrets were used to repair damaged Mk5s?

I based this on a an article I read in a modelling magazine and reference regarding the history of Centurion Tanks in IDF service, so if its wrong I apologize, so let me try and answer your reply

 

1. IDF did not buy any Mk3s new. They were all Mk5s.

There was the 6 number of second-hand Mk3's from existing British stock in 1955, this was the first time Britain had agreed to sell the IDF any Centurions. The Israeli government approach Britain several times since the early 1950's looking to buy Centurion's but the answer was always no. In 1953 the Israeli Government again approached Britain with an order for 20 Centurions but as Britain was still friendly with the Arab  Nations at the time and as Britain had already sold Mk2 Centurions to some of the Arab countries the paper work was "lost in the bureaucracy of government" to delay the process in the hope the Israeli's would cancel the order. It took until 1955 for the Foreign Office to approve the order   but reduced the original order from 20 to only 6 Centurions Mk3's from existing stock. not the newer tanks the Israeli's were looking for, again the British Government were certain Israel would not purchase the tanks in such a small number as there insufficient numbers to equip one Company, much less a Battalion but the Israeli Government agreed.

 

2. IDF did not buy any Mk3s new.  They were all Mk5s.

I know the IDF were sold Mk5's from Britain between 1958 and 1960 I believe all second-hand from existing stock about 75 in number.

 

I think the only new Centurions bought by the IDF were some Mk8's I remember reading it was around 14 in number, and between 1961 and 1975 all other Centurions sold by Britain direct to the IDF were also second hand from existing stock with about 200 or 300 hundred being modernised before shipping, but how many of the ones sold between 1958 and 1960 (The Mk5's) were original built as Mk3's, then upgraded to Mk5 standards and then reclassified as Mk5's so on the sales documents if would show the tanks as Mk5's not Mk3's or are you suggesting that no Mk3's were ever upgraded to Mk5 standard by the UK and then sold to the IDF, or the captured Mk3's were never upgraded by the IDF

 

3.  I know they captured some earlier Centurions from Jordan and Egypt and hoovered up some second-hand Cents later.  So are you suggesting that Mk3 turrets were used to repair damaged Mk5s?

When the IDF carried out the upgrade from Shot to Shot Kal they striped the hulls down to just shells to allow them to carry the required work to re-engine them and carry out all other required work. So again are you saying that just because they captured I believe about 30 Centurions from Jordan and Egypt these would not be put into the rebuild program. (Just my humble opinion I would think the Israeli's would not care where the additional 30 Centurions came from to them it  would just be an other 30 tanks)

 

If you are saying the Israeli's never had any Mk3 based Centurions, how do you explain phots of Shot Kal Alef in the1973 Yom Kippur War and Shot Kal Gimel's with ERA in 1982 Lebanon, with a rear access hatch to the turret a feature of the Mk3 but deleted from the Mk5, also looking from the front of the turret the loaders periscope on the Mk3 is on the roof of the turret but on the Mk5 it was moved to the sloping front of the turret, again there are phots showing the loaders periscope on the roof of the turret, again a Mk3 feature, these are just the two most identifiable features of a Mk3/Mk3 turret, but as the resident armour expert I am sure you are chomping at the bit to show your superior knowledge in this matter and let everyone know if its right or wrong please feel free to continue, but remember never say never with the IDF as someone some where will have a photo to say differently

[Kingsman]

There's no need to be rude and offensive.  This isn't Facebook.

[Mike Mcellaney]

On 5/31/2021 at 12:27 AM, Das Abteilung said:

There's no need to be rude and offensive.  This isn't Facebook.tank 

I can not see what is rude or offensive by trying to answer your reply to the best of my ability, obviously I have offended you in some way by questioning your knowledge on armoured vehicles no offence meant.

 

I got back into this hobby after a break of a couple of years to enjoy myself and build models, I have my Gold, Sliver and Bronze medals, my Best of Categories trophies from both  this country and in America, one model even made a magazine also I have had a manufacture contact me to use one of my models to showcase his decals I had used, so I do know what is required to build to that standard. I am past that now and build for myself, and I use my own name on the forum, nothing to hide.

 

At the end of the day this is a hobby its not life or death, its here to be enjoyed and how you do that is up to the individual, the majority of people are here for the enjoyment of building models for them self to go into their collection and if something is a little bit off, like paint color slightly the wrong shade, rivets on a track guard when they should not be there etc. they are not bothered they are building for the enjoyment, others are building for competition different level altogether where every thing need to be as correct as possible from the build right through to the paint and weathering, if its going into a diorama its need to tell a story, then you have the rivet counters the ones who always comment on every post but don't find the time to do much building themselves, who if you are building for competition have their place in this hobby as they will soon let you know in their expert opinion what you have done wrong, this will hopefully prompt you to check yourself and confirm what they say is correct most times it is correct but remember always check what the say do not take it as gospel. 

 

Das Abteilung, I would respectfully ask you to refrain from posting or committing on any of my future build so you do not feel offended by any of my replies and yes I am aware this is not Facebook I only replied in the tone of the question.

 

Now lets get back to building models and enjoying our self as far as I am concerned the mater is closed and I will not be making any other comments on this subject

[Swiftnbold]

Mike, I know you said you wouldn't be adding any more comments on this but I'm new to AFV modelling and am particularly interested in the IDF Centurions.

I'd be grateful and extremely interested in any progress.

CeA. 😉

Edited September 7, 2021 by Swiftnbold

[Ade H]

On 30/05/2021 at 08:24, Mike Mcellaney said:

but as the resident armour expert I am sure you are chomping at the bit to show your superior knowledge in this matter and let everyone know if its right or wrong

I wouldn't normally comment about disagreements, but I think that this comment may be what offended Das Abteilung, and if so, I don't blame him at all. That would get my back up as well; there's no need for sarcasm. From my point of view, most of us who answer questions on forums do so to share knowledge and experience, not to big ourselves up and certainly not to show anyone else to be wrong. Sure, it can sometimes come over as otherwise, and there will be some people with selfish motivation, but I'm quite certain that DA is not one of them. He has always been helpful to me and he was just trying to be helpful to you.

 

Anyway, 'nough said/written. I just wanted to add that if you decide to revive this thread and/or post an RFI about it (if you have, sorry I've overlooked it) I and several others who have Sho't Kals in mind or in progress would really value it. Thanks.

[crobinsonh]

I hope that both Mike and DA can come to an agreement that both are offering to provide really interesting information to a wider group of modellers. The perils of written vs. spoken is all too often you can read the wrong thing into a communication. I personally think that the two of you working together as both have an avid interest in the same area is of huge benefit to everyone. 

[Mike Mcellaney]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:28 PM, Swiftnbold said:

Mike, I know you said you wouldn't be adding any more comments on this but I'm new to AFV modelling and am particularly interested in the IDF Centurions.

I'd be grateful and extremely interested in any progress.

CeA. 😉

I will be starting this build again as soon as I have my 2 M51 Sherman's completed, just been remodelling the work room over the last few weeks but almost finished so I can get back to building again

[Guillermo A]

@Mike Mcellaney  Congrats on that beautiful Sho't Kal,   since you have both AFV and  Amusing Hobby,   which is better?   What would you recommend for Yom Kippur Sho't Kal?

 

I own the AFV Sho't Kal Gimmel 82 and  the Sho't Six day war,  But I want the Yom Kippur 1973, so can you please help me to decide? What should I Order?  AFV or Amusing Sho't Kal  1973?  

 

Thanks so much