MFH 1/12 '64 Ferrari 250 GTO

[Octavian]

15 hours ago, Kitkent said:

I'm with Sabrejet on the Mr.Hobby primer,it just works,I pick some up whenever I manage to see it. Luckily I have two near shops,one is in walking distance. I also have some pages from I think Tamiya magazine building this very kit,it's buried in my library somewhere! Chris.

Kitkent,

 

Thanks for the message. I'd be interested to see any pics from the Tamiya mag build if you happen to come across it. 

 

Best,

Andrew

 

 

[Octavian]

Ok,

 

Work and family obligations this past week meant I didn't make as much progress on the GTO as planned, but I still got a bit done.

 

 

Lots of very fiddly work getting holes drilled into various pieces of the cylinder head assembly. I'm not totally sure what to call these pieces, that hold the rocker arms in place that are connected to the valves, but they are very tiny (in 1/12 scale at least).

 

 

More drilling; with a roughly .8 mm drill bit for the larger holes (for the valves) and smaller .5 mm holes to hold the above-mentioned rocker arm assembly pieces.

 

 

Putting in the valves.

 

 

And the valve springs opposite:

 

 

Camshafts:

 

 

Beginning the tedious (but enjoyable) process of cobbling together the rocker arm assemblies and inserting them into the cylinder head:

 

 

 

And finally, one completed cylinder head:

 

 

 

I applied a bit of Mr. Hobby Mr. Weathering Color (Multi Black) to get the engine looking a bit more "used" as it were, and am pleased with the results thus far. It gets into the cracks and seems to add depth and a sense of realistic grime to it.

 

So, a good bit of work this week done here and there in the few moments I could find for it; my sense is that these cylinder heads are the most meticulous part of the model in terms of working with very small pieces. I almost had a conniption at one point while cleaning one of the valve springs with a brass wire brush; it flew from between the tips of my tweezers and after an hour of combing the floor looking for it, I was ready to mournfully give it up as lost, when I found it sitting embedded in the bristles of the wire brush! Phew!

 

Anyway, it was a fun, albeit painstaking bit of work (and I still have one more cylinder head to finish). I look forward to any advice or feedback.

 

All best,

Andrew

 

[silver911]

As has been mentioned before...internal engine details...especially if said engine detail will never be seen...can be used to get the builder in the right frame of mind for working with white metal...and...in this respect...your confidence is growing after your previous problems.

Well done for persevering with such an approach...and remember...this build is all about you...nothing and nobody else matters.

A solid amount of progress made...with nice results.

 

Ron

[Octavian]

1 minute ago, silver911 said:

As has been mentioned before...internal engine details...especially if said engine detail will never be seen...can be used to get the builder in the right frame of mind for working with white metal...and...in this respect...your confidence is growing after your previous problems.

Well done for persevering with such an approach...and remember...this build is all about you...nothing and nobody else matters.

A solid amount of progress made...with nice results.

 

Ron

 

Ron,

 

Many thanks; I appreciate the vote of confidence and the kind words. It feels very important to me to try and do the best I can on all of these hidden and unseen details; I feel that to do anything less would show a lack of respect to this amazing kit MFH has created. Plus it is rewarding work in its own right, and is definitely teaching me a great deal about white metal.

 

All my best,

Andrew

[silver911]

Just now, Octavian said:

 

Ron,

 

Many thanks; I appreciate the vote of confidence and the kind words. It feels very important to me to try and do the best I can on all of these hidden and unseen details; I feel that to do anything less would show a lack of respect to this amazing kit MFH has created. Plus it is rewarding work in its own right, and is definitely teaching me a great deal about white metal.

 

All my best,

Andrew

 

It's that attitude...both to comments made...and your respect for a kit of this complexity...that will ensure a great result.

What you are learning now...will give you...not only knowledge and confidence...it will also increase your pleasure.

 

Ron

 

 

[Coors54]

@Octavian did you lap those valves in? 

 

Seriously good work there.

 

Dave

[Codger]

That's called a trunion Andrew. The rocker pivots on the shaft which is held captive at the ends by the trunion which bolts to the head.

Ron is right; this tedious work prepares your mind for the long road ahead of prepping tiny parts to fit perfectly together for the whole build. Take all the photos as you do this work because much of it will go away after assembly. But the 'fun' of it is what you're doing now - and all the satisfaction.

Beautiful, precise work/

C

[Octavian]

2 hours ago, Coors54 said:

@Octavian did you lap those valves in? 

 

Seriously good work there.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

Many thanks. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "lap" in this context; apologies if I'm missing something obvious.

 

Best,

Andrew

[Octavian]

2 hours ago, Codger said:

That's called a trunion Andrew. The rocker pivots on the shaft which is held captive at the ends by the trunion which bolts to the head.

Ron is right; this tedious work prepares your mind for the long road ahead of prepping tiny parts to fit perfectly together for the whole build. Take all the photos as you do this work because much of it will go away after assembly. But the 'fun' of it is what you're doing now - and all the satisfaction.

Beautiful, precise work/

C

 

Codger,

 

Ah, cool, thanks for that. I appreciate the feedback as well; trying to capture as many of these little details in photos is simultaneously teaching me how to actually use the camera on my smartphone!

 

Best,

Andrew

[Codger]

57 minutes ago, Octavian said:

 

Dave,

 

Many thanks. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "lap" in this context; apologies if I'm missing something obvious.

 

Best,

Andrew

Dave pays you quite a compliment here about how realistic your work looks.  Lapping is a now near - obsolete process by which abrasive compound is applied to the valve seat in the combustion chamber and the valve is then inserted and rotated to make a compatible mating surface and angle with the valve's margin.  Precision machining and CNC have now made that process un-necessary.

[Octavian]

Ah, I see; thank you for the explanation, Codger. Thank you also, Dave, for the compliment; it is greatly appreciated. There is far more that I don't know about engines than I do know, so I am always eager to learn more.

 

 

[bigbadbadge]

The engine detail looks phenomenal,  when complete you should be able to add some fuel and fire up!!!

Very nice progress so far and it's great you are get all the advice needed.  

Looking forward to seeing this develope.

Chris

[Octavian]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:39 AM, bigbadbadge said:

The engine detail looks phenomenal,  when complete you should be able to add some fuel and fire up!!!

Very nice progress so far and it's great you are get all the advice needed.  

Looking forward to seeing this develope.

Chris

Chris,

 

Many thanks! I appreciate the kind words, and the advice here on the forums has been wonderful. Hopefully the whole thing turns out well.

 

Best,

Andrew

[Octavian]

Hello, all. It's time for an update on recent progress. I have been out of town most of the last two weeks, visiting a friend in Milwaukee, then my wife and I were in Yellowstone for a bit with her family. A herd of bison trotted right past our car; I could have reached out and touched them they were so close; they appeared to be on the run from a bear that we glimpsed a ways off. Fortunately, that fella was not within arm's reach. Good times.

 

As for the 250 GTO, it's been more engine work.

 

 

The head gaskets went on, then the cylinder heads (I didn't get a good shot of the PE head gasket before putting on the cylinder heads, unfortunately).

 

Putting the rivets into the cylinder head covers was surprisingly difficult. The rivets are exceedingly small and didn't often want to fit into the holes I drilled. I finally realized (in time for the last two rivets) that it was much easier if I simply used a larger drill bit than the instructions called for; I had hesitated to do that at first for fear of breaking through the side of the covers, but fortunately that didn't happen. Unfortunately, however, I lost seven or eight rivets to the carpet of my office. They had a habit of pinging out of my tweezers, and they are, for all practical purposes, impossible to find now. I will need to order some replacement rivets, or create a homebrew solution. Any thoughts or advice would be welcome. Luckily I can add the remaining few rivets at any point, so I won't be held up by that.

 

 

Below is one of the tubes containing the HT leads that sit atop the cylinder heads (if anyone knows the proper name for what I'm calling 'tubes,' I'd be glad to know it). Getting the tiny PE flange in there (tiny drilled holes) was a bit tricky.

 

 

Here is the engine with one cylinder head cover on, and some additional bits on the front cover.

 

 

And here are a couple pics of where I am at now.

 

 

 

There is some additional paint detail and aging to do here, but I'm fairly pleased with how it's coming together thus far.

 

Thank you for reading; as always, any feedback or advice is very welcome.

 

I hope you are all well.

 

Best,

Andrew

[Codger]

I demur to my Ferrari expert colleagues here but I think 'tubes' is fine or possibly 'wire looms'.

 

Beautiful work with some very fiddly tiny bits Andrew.

[Octavian]

4 minutes ago, Codger said:

I demur to my Ferrari expert colleagues here but I think 'tubes' is fine or possibly 'wire looms'.

 

Beautiful work with some very fiddly tiny bits Andrew.

 

Many thanks, Codger. One thing that I'm a bit disappointed with here is the smudging on the tubes. They were smoothly airbrushed, but handling them and getting them into position resulted in some paint flaking off. I touched them up with a brush, but the finish on them is less than ideal. Any tips for working with small painted pieces so as to avoid marring the paint? Would latex gloves be in order when handling such pieces?

[bigbadbadge]

I usually use a coat of klear or Future floor polish, over your side of the pond as it protects the parts without being too glossy, its self levelling so can be brushed on easily. 

Engine looks fantastic those fixings look very fiddly.

Great work 

Chris

[Codger]

3 hours ago, Octavian said:

 

. Any tips for working with small painted pieces so as to avoid marring the paint? Would latex gloves be in order when handling such pieces?

As much as you can, handle with tweezers. Some guys use those sticky sticks to just touch an end.

I have found gloves no help to me because the bits are small and the glove fingers get wrinkly - at least on me. Your results may vary. And the Future protection is certainly a help.

[Octavian]

8 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

I usually use a coat of klear or Future floor polish, over your side of the pond as it protects the parts without being too glossy, its self levelling so can be brushed on easily. 

Engine looks fantastic those fixings look very fiddly.

Great work 

Chris

 

Chris,

 

Many thanks. I do have a bottle of Klear; I will definitely give that a try with future small parts.

 

All my best,

Andrew

[Octavian]

8 hours ago, Codger said:

As much as you can, handle with tweezers. Some guys use those sticky sticks to just touch an end.

I have found gloves no help to me because the bits are small and the glove fingers get wrinkly - at least on me. Your results may vary. And the Future protection is certainly a help.

 

Codger,

 

I've had similar experiences with gloves; they wrinkle and fine tactile sense is diminished. I will aim to tweeze whenever possible (new verb). Thanks for your feedback; always greatly appreciated.

 

All best,

Andrew

[silver911]

If I may....cotton gloves do not 'wrinkle' as do the nitrile type...and do not lessen the 'feel' when handling.....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184127532585?var=691839568501&hash=item2adedb2e29:g:k7UAAOSwP8leHaKl

 

Also...the size you choose is important (S M L)...and another trick to prevent 'wrinkling'...is to wrap a piece of masking tape around the wrist band to keep them tight...preventing slippage.

 

If using tweezers...ceramic tipped will prevent any scratching.....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202991945799?hash=item2f43434847:g:uC0AAOSwptxcrEjJ

 

Although you can always put some masking tape over the tips of steel ones...but that is very difficult with the pointed ones.

 

The 'smudging' on the painted tubes would indicate a problem paint adhesion...did you prime the pieces?...what paint did you use?...did you brush it on or airbrush it?

I ask these questions...simply because...the answers will offer a solution to problems of this nature in the coming build.

 

Very nice progress so far...and your attention to detail is admirable.

 

Ron

Edited June 14, 2021 by silver911

[danibear]

On 5/17/2021 at 4:51 AM, Octavian said:

Ron,

 

Thank you for your post, and for the wise advice; it is much appreciated. I am relieved, in one sense, to hear that you had the same experience with etch primers: i.e., a rougher, more granular quality, inasmuch as that indicates that it is a feature of the type of paint it is, as opposed to my applying it incorrectly. I thinned it down as much as I dared, but it was still fairly rough. I think it will work well for the body of the car, as I will be following it up with Zero paint and clear coat, which I think is great stuff, but perhaps I'll try something else for the engine parts as I don't want to lose any detail.

 

I am going to take a look at Mr. Surfacer as Sabrejet recommended. What is your preferred primer for white metal?

 

Best,

Andrew

 

Hey Andrew, 

       I just registered just for you!..... to try to reply your confusion about the Zero Paint metal/resin etching prime.  Since I used a lot and I can guarantee you I know your issue applying it!

 

       You didn't thin it enough, I know the bottle say thin it 1:1 with prime "mud" and hardener "liquid". However, most of the case, 1:1 is not enough, you will have to add more "liquid" to make it flowing more (say 1: 1.3). Test spray with a spoon until you can smooth finish. 

 

      ZP metal/resin etching prime is the best I used for metal and resin, and yes, I always get smooth finish, as matter of fact, the smoothest grey prime I ever had second to Finisher's grey prime (but it is for plastic only). If you polish the white metal surface good, you have get very smooth finish. 

 

     By looking at your images I guess you didn't thin as needed.  MFH white metal cast is low quality (or all white metal is like that?), but won't be that coarse.    

 

 

[Octavian]

7 hours ago, danibear said:

 

Hey Andrew, 

       I just registered just for you!..... to try to reply your confusion about the Zero Paint metal/resin etching prime.  Since I used a lot and I can guarantee you I know your issue applying it!

 

       You didn't thin it enough, I know the bottle say thin it 1:1 with prime "mud" and hardener "liquid". However, most of the case, 1:1 is not enough, you will have to add more "liquid" to make it flowing more (say 1: 1.3). Test spray with a spoon until you can smooth finish. 

 

      ZP metal/resin etching prime is the best I used for metal and resin, and yes, I always get smooth finish, as matter of fact, the smoothest grey prime I ever had second to Finisher's grey prime (but it is for plastic only). If you polish the white metal surface good, you have get very smooth finish. 

 

     By looking at your images I guess you didn't thin as needed.  MFH white metal cast is low quality (or all white metal is like that?), but won't be that coarse.    

 

 

Danibear,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to register just to share this! That is very kind of you, and I truly appreciate it. I had found it odd that it ended up that rough; I am very relieved to hear about the proper way of doing it; I have quite a lot of it, so I was disappointed to think that I wouldn't get to use it. So there is no need to thin with any other sort of thinner, is that right? Just extra thinning with the hardener?

 

Thanks again,

Andrew

[Octavian]

15 hours ago, silver911 said:

If I may....cotton gloves do not 'wrinkle' as do the nitrile type...and do not lessen the 'feel' when handling.....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184127532585?var=691839568501&hash=item2adedb2e29:g:k7UAAOSwP8leHaKl

 

Also...the size you choose is important (S M L)...and another trick to prevent 'wrinkling'...is to wrap a piece of masking tape around the wrist band to keep them tight...preventing slippage.

 

If using tweezers...ceramic tipped will prevent any scratching.....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202991945799?hash=item2f43434847:g:uC0AAOSwptxcrEjJ

 

Although you can always put some masking tape over the tips of steel ones...but that is very difficult with the pointed ones.

 

The 'smudging' on the painted tubes would indicate a problem paint adhesion...did you prime the pieces?...what paint did you use?...did you brush it on or airbrush it?

I ask these questions...simply because...the answers will offer a solution to problems of this nature in the coming build.

 

Very nice progress so far...and your attention to detail is admirable.

 

Ron

 

Ron,

 

Many thanks for your reply and advice. I did prime the pieces, with Mr. Surfacer Primer, airbrushed on with an Iwata Eclipse. The paint was Tamiya Acrylic, also airbrushed on. It's possible that the issue was the CA smudging and causing the problems. I use thick CA, the gel type. I know that many modellers favor the ultra thin stuff, but I can't seem to control that at all, and it dries so fast that it doesn't give much time for adjustment. If I'm out of the loop here on how to use the thin stuff effectively, any advice is very welcome.

 

Thanks for your kind words; I am learning a lot as I go, and really enjoying the kit.

 

Best,

Andrew

[Stickframe]

Hi Andrew, 

 

There's another CA option - Gap Filling Medium CA.  Not at all runny, and less likely to have the big blobs you can get with gel.  Also, you can get special tips for your CA bottle, that are about an inch long, and end at a relatively fine point.  With some practice, you can get pretty good at letting out the "right" amount of glue pretty close to where you you want it.  I don't use the thin type CA either - just can't keep it under control!  Another feature of the gap filling medium CA is that it doesn't stick instantly, leaving you a few seconds to locate and set the object you are gluing in place - I usually use the point on a fine file or knife to tap the part down, and "set it".   You can also get an odorless type, which I do - it turns out, I use a lot of CA, and might be allergic to the smell!!  no odor, no more runny nose when I'm building models - It took me a long, long time to figure that out!  😁🤧  I'm glad I figured that out - 

 

As you experiment with more types of CA on various surfaces, you'll figure out other tricks.  When I'm gluing two etch pieces together, and sometimes one piece of etch onto resin or plastic, I'll sand/rough up the etch mating surfaces with coarse sand paper.  This seems to help, giving the CA something to "bite", reducing the possibility of the etch part "flicking" off.   For white metal parts that are structural, I'll drill out the connecting points and insert short, small diameter brass rod - using a #72 drill bit and .020" or .025" rod.  This task can seem tedious, but I found it to pay off on suspension parts, which are usually subject to lots of handling during a build, and increased chances of breaking the glue joint.    

 

Hope this is some help!

 

Looking forward to your next update,

 

Cheers

Nick 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Stickframe