1:72 Liberator I conversions

[72modeler]

7 hours ago, CraigB said:

Sorry I must have missed that on my first read through, nicely explained.

 

Hey, I have seen those photos a thousand times as well as the airplane up close and personal at airshows, and I never really thought about the exhausts being different from a B-24/Liberator I/C-87 until this discussion! (Isn't it always the case that you never notice things in a photo until somebody points them out, and then you notice them all the time?) 

Mike

[Steve N]

8 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Hey, I have seen those photos a thousand times as well as the airplane up close and personal at airshows, and I never really thought about the exhausts being different from a B-24/Liberator I/C-87 until this discussion! (Isn't it always the case that you never notice things in a photo until somebody points them out, and then you notice them all the time?) 

Mike

Note that "Diamond Lil" is not really a good example of a Liberator I, as she was heavily modified during her working life.  As others have mentioned, she was refitted with the late "knife-edge" style windscreen, and the longer nose.  In fact, the entire fuselage from the cockpit forward was replaced.  Also, the engines nacelles were replaced by those from the PBY Catalina, since at the time it was still in production, meaning replacement parts were widely available. 

 

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but the horizontal stablilizer of the Liberator I is shorter in span than the later model B-24s.  The tailplane doesn't actually sit higher, but rather the roof of the aft fuselage is slightly lower.  The rear fuselage under the tailplane is also skinnier, as it was widened when the power turret was added.  All in all, backdating a B-24D to a Liberator I is a pretty major job if you want to cover everything. 

 

SN

[Tbolt]

8 hours ago, Steve N said:

 

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but the horizontal stablilizer of the Liberator I is shorter in span than the later model B-24s.  The tailplane doesn't actually sit higher, but rather the roof of the aft fuselage is slightly lower.  The rear fuselage under the tailplane is also skinnier, as it was widened when the power turret was added.  All in all, backdating a B-24D to a Liberator I is a pretty major job if you want to cover everything. 

 

SN

 

So is the whole of the roof lower on the A rather than a taper towards the tail?

 

[Steve N]

19 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

So is the whole of the roof lower on the A rather than a taper towards the tail?

 

I'm not sure.  My guess would be that it slopes down slightly aft of the wing, rather than a straight line back to the horizontal stab as on the later models.

 

SN

[72modeler]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:17 AM, CraigB said:

Sorry I must have missed that on my first read through, nicely explained.

 

Hey, I have seen those photos a thousand times as well as the airplane up close and personal at airshows, and I never really thought about the exhausts being different from a B-24/Liberator I/C-87 until this discussion! (Isn't it always the case that you never notice things in a photo until somebody points them out, and then you notice them all the time?) 

Mike

[72modeler]

After looking at a lot of photos, it seems to me, and I may well be wrong, but the horizontal stabilizer of all B-24 variants was mounted in the same location in the fuselage; with the aircraft that came after the B-24/Liberator I, the 'short-nosed' versions, the upper fuselage line was raised to give space for the tail turret- doing this required a 'roof' over the stabilizer to match the top of the tail turret; the lower fuselage contour stayed the same. I found a photo taken on the assembly line that shows how the upper fuselage was raised with the corresponding raised fairing over the stabilizer.

Mike

 

@Steve N I was not aware the the Liberator I had a shorter span horizontal stabilizer- do you know what the span was compared to the later versions as well as the reason for the span increase? Just curious!

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/b-24/b-24-assembly-line-2/

[Graham Boak]

I didn't know about this either, but a longer nose would normally require a greater tail moment arm for balance -either a longer rear fuselage or a bigger horizontal tail.  Look for larger vertical tails too, but perhaps they were already big enough in this case.

[EwenS]

7 hours ago, 72modeler said:

After looking at a lot of photos, it seems to me, and I may well be wrong, but the horizontal stabilizer of all B-24 variants was mounted in the same location in the fuselage; with the aircraft that came after the B-24/Liberator I, the 'short-nosed' versions, the upper fuselage line was raised to give space for the tail turret- doing this required a 'roof' over the stabilizer to match the top of the tail turret; the lower fuselage contour stayed the same. I found a photo taken on the assembly line that shows how the upper fuselage was raised with the corresponding raised fairing over the stabilizer.

Mike

 

@Steve N I was not aware the the Liberator I had a shorter span horizontal stabilizer- do you know what the span was compared to the later versions as well as the reason for the span increase? Just curious!

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/b-24/b-24-assembly-line-2/

 

Over on Joe Baughers's site he notes that when the XB-24B was built (by conversion from the XB-24) for the USAAF the span of the tailplane was increased by 2 feet. Its first flight was on 1 Feb 1941. The B-24C production model then incorporated those changes and other mods from experience gained to date in Europe. Those 9 B-24C came off the line in late 1941.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_bombers/b24_6.html

 

Edit:- Just to be clear that change was after Liberators designated B-24A/LB-30B/Liberator I and LB-30/Liberator II were designed and in series production.

Edited May 16, 2021 by EwenS

[CraigB]

Now the talk has turned to the aft fuselage profile, does anybody else see the start of a slope starting above the forward edge of the 2nd window behind the doors? This seems to align with the rear of the bomb bay too.