Dart Herald !! Marquette 1/72 : I tremble : Jersey Airport Diorama

[LaurieS]

Yes I hope. But about the worst mouldings I have seen. However nothing like a challenge.

Dart Herald was a winner for Jersey Airport. The airport on one of the highest points of the Island next to the sea with high winds.
The Herald with it wings on top was able to land & take off when others could not.

 

Laurie

 

http://

[roginoz]

Jeez, Laurie, not sure what's kit and what's flash ! Looks like you've got equal measures.

 

Got a soft spot for the Herald, a most attractive and elegant aircraft. We flew to Jersey from Luton in one, way back in 1968, a lifetime ago, so I'll be following your build and cheering from the sideline, although you probably won't hear me 'cos of the distance.........

 

Out with the angle grinder and good luck.

Rog

[bigbadbadge]

Got one of these on the go myself Laurie,  be prepared for some filling and Sanding.  I am doing the freight version as depicted and have filled my windo appetures so they are flush and going to be painted over anyway.  There was a passenger aircraft in this livery if I recall. Have you seen how much these are going for on Ebay???

Good luck with your build.  

Chris

[Ray S]

4 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Have you seen how much these are going for on Ebay???

 

Crumbs, curiosity got me to look, £125! or thereabouts. At least you can scratchbuild another with the flash that seems to be on Laurie's example, so that would make it half price!

 

I am sure @LaurieS that you will do a grand job on this, I love the collection you have already done!

 

Ray

[LaurieS]

1 hour ago, roginoz said:

Jeez, Laurie, not sure what's kit and what's flash ! Looks like you've got equal measures.

 

Got a soft spot for the Herald, a most attractive and elegant aircraft. We flew to Jersey from Luton in one, way back in 1968, a lifetime ago, so I'll be following your build and cheering from the sideline, although you probably won't hear me 'cos of the distance.........

 

Out with the angle grinder and good luck.

Rog

Yes a great looking & innovative craft Rog. Wonder if it was the first with wins on top ?

 

53 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Got one of these on the go myself Laurie,  be prepared for some filling and Sanding.  I am doing the freight version as depicted and have filled my windo appetures so they are flush and going to be painted over anyway.  There was a passenger aircraft in this livery if I recall. Have you seen how much these are going for on Ebay???

Good luck with your build.  

Chris

Do not tell me they have come down in price . PLEASE.

Chris

 

47 minutes ago, Ray S said:

 

Crumbs, curiosity got me to look, £125! or thereabouts. At least you can scratchbuild another with the flash that seems to be on Laurie's example, so that would make it half price!

 

I am sure @LaurieS that you will do a grand job on this, I love the collection you have already done!

 

Ray

Thanks Ray. Feel better at £40 plus i have a lot of flash. Actually piece missing & half piece missing I can make so no problems there.

 

Just worried abou the rest of it. 🙄 Ha ha do not worry, leave that to me, i will get there.

 

Laurie

[Eric Mc]

The Herald was by no means the first airliner with wings on top.  Virtually all the Fokker pre-war designs had high wings - a tradition they continued after the World War 2 with the F-27 Friendship.

 

I've always had a soft spot for the Herald - even if it was a bit of a flop. Handley Page completely miscalculated when they assumed that the target airlines they hoped to sell it to would prefer "old but easilly understood" piston engined technology over the new fangled and  clever-dick turboprop engines that were already available. Fokker had no such qualms.

As a result, Handley Page had to redesign the Herald to take two Dart turboprops - but performance wise it was always behind its main rivals, the F-27 and later the Avro 748.

 

Maquette should be sent some sort of "crimes against plastic" fine for the state they've allowed that old FROG mould get into. As a FROG kit I'm sure it would have been a nice crisp and reasonably well fitting model - with virtually no flash.

 

I'll look forward to seeing how well this progresses.

[LaurieS]

Just now, Eric Mc said:

 

I'll look forward to seeing how well this progresses.

That makes 2 of us Eric 🙄

 

Laurie

[AMB]

Considering this mould has been passed from FROG to Novo and Maquette, it's not surprising it has an amount of flash on this well-flogged mould, but nothing that can't be cleaned off.

Not sure why this one is moulded in black plastic as I have one of these in my stash moulded in white plastic. Going to take a few coats of white paint to cover it.    

[LaurieS]

5 minutes ago, Eric Mc said:

The Herald was by no means the first airliner with wings on top.  Virtually all the Fokker pre-war designs had high wings - a tradition they continued after the World War 2 with the F-27 Friendship.

 

I've always had a soft spot for the Herald - even if it was a bit of a flop. Handley Page completely miscalculated when they assumed that the target airlines they hoped to sell it to would prefer "old but easilly understood" piston engined technology over the new fangled and  clever-dick turboprop engines that were already available. Fokker had no such qualms.

As a result, Handley Page had to redesign the Herald to take two Dart turboprops - but performance wise it was always behind its main rivals, the F-27 and later the Avro 748.

 

Maquette should be sent some sort of "crimes against plastic" fine for the state they've allowed that old FROG mould get into. As a FROG kit I'm sure it would have been a nice crisp and reasonably well fitting model - with virtually no flash.

 

I'll look forward to seeing how well this progresses.

 

Intersting.

 

According to records, Eric ,the Herald beat the Fokker into the air by 12 weeks. But lost out  on the first passenger flights to take the air.

 

Does this make the Herald the first passenger aircraft with wings high ?

 

Laurie

[LaurieS]

1 hour ago, AMB said:

Considering this mould has been passed from FROG to Novo and Maquette, it's not surprising it has an amount of flash on this well-flogged mould, but nothing that can't be cleaned off.

Not sure why this one is moulded in black plastic as I have one of these in my stash moulded in white plastic. Going to take a few coats of white paint to cover it.    

AMB the wings & fuselage black the rest grey. Weird just makes me think this is a put together kit.

 

Will grey fit to black 🤣 stupid 😟

 

Laurie

Edited May 10, 2021 by LaurieS

[bigbadbadge]

Yes mines black and grey too, no mega flash but is the Maquette kit and I had a small area of the port horizontal tailplane which was short shot now fixed.  It builds up okay Laurie and looks the lovely shape the Herald was. 

Chris

[Eric Mc]

1 hour ago, LaurieS said:

 

Intersting.

 

According to records, Eric ,the Herald beat the Fokker into the air by 12 weeks. But lost out  on the first passenger flights to take the air.

 

Does this make the Herald the first passenger aircraft with wings high ?

 

Laurie

Definitely not.

As I said, all the pre-war Fokker airliners had high wings.  Also, one of the most famous pre-war airliners, the Ford Trimotor had high wings. The Lockheed Vega airliner had a high wing. The Douglas DC-5 had a high wing. The de Havilland Flamingo had a high wing. The Armstrong Whitworth Atalanta and Ensign both had high wings.

 

I'd better stop.

[TheyJammedKenny!]

1 hour ago, LaurieS said:

Does this make the Herald the first passenger aircraft with wings high ?

Laurie, this is going to be a challenge, but I'm sure you're up to it.  As others have said, there were many such top-wing passenger-carrying aircraft earlier in history.  I regret, to some degree, that I disposed of both of my kits after having persuaded myself I'd never build them.  They were the NOVA moldings.

[Eric Mc]

1 hour ago, AMB said:

Considering this mould has been passed from FROG to Novo and Maquette, it's not surprising it has an amount of flash on this well-flogged mould, but nothing that can't be cleaned off.

Not sure why this one is moulded in black plastic as I have one of these in my stash moulded in white plastic. Going to take a few coats of white paint to cover it.    

"Novo" was not a model company as such. It was a branding exercise used by the buyers of the former FROG moulds to market the first "post FROG era" mouldings into the UK. 

At the time these Novo branded kits were being sold, some of the moulds were still quite new. The only significant difference between FROG mouldings and Novo mouldings was that under the Novo brand, softer plastic seemed to be used - and the decals were rubbish too.

 

The moulds only really went down hill when they started using them for Soviet internal market production. That's when the packaging and instructions became very inferior and weird and they started using very poor plastic, often in lurid colours (yellow, mauve, brown, bright blue, white etc).

[LaurieS]

Just now, TheyJammedKenny! said:

Laurie, this is going to be a challenge, but I'm sure you're up to it.  As others have said, there were many such top-wing passenger-carrying aircraft earlier in history.  I regret, to some degree, that I disposed of both of my kits after having persuaded myself I'd never build them.  They were the NOVA moldings.

 

Just now, TheyJammedKenny! said:

Laurie, this is going to be a challenge, but I'm sure you're up to it.  As others have said, there were many such top-wing passenger-carrying aircraft earlier in history.  I regret, to some degree, that I disposed of both of my kits after having persuaded myself I'd never build them.  They were the NOVA moldings.

Love challenges. On your advice found other decals BIA which arrived this morning. Clever they include in the Decals masking for the cockpit cover. This is 26 Decals.

 

Laurie

 

[LaurieS]

32 minutes ago, Eric Mc said:

Definitely not.

As I said, all the pre-war Fokker airliners had high wings.  Also, one of the most famous pre-war airliners, the Ford Trimotor had high wings. The Lockheed Vega airliner had a high wing. The Douglas DC-5 had a high wing. The de Havilland Flamingo had a high wing. The Armstrong Whitworth Atalanta and Ensign both had high wings.

 

I'd better stop.

Apologies Eric not trying to argue at all  😁.  I was refering to the Fokker 27.  So confused (not unusual).

 

Regards

 

Laurie

[Eric Mc]

A high wing confers some advantages on certain classes of aircraft. High winged aircraft are often more stable in the air - because the centre of mass is below the wing rather than above it. That's why it a very popular layout for light aircraft (and indeed, flying models too).

 

Because it places the fuselage closer to the ground, from a practical point of view, it makes for easier access for boarding and loading - and maintenance of certain parts.

 

A high wing design is often preferable for military freighters because of the easier loading using ramps etc. I always think it was a pity that the proposed military freighter version of the Herald was not chosen for the RAF. Poor old Handley Page were ostracised by the Ministry of Defence because they had refused to allow themselves to be merged into the two large airframe groups (BAC and Hawker Siddeley)  so the order went to Hawker Siddeley with their (rather gawky) Andover version of the HS748.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LaurieS]

3 minutes ago, Eric Mc said:

A high wing confers some advantages on certain classes of aircraft. High winged aircraft are often more stable in the air - because the centre of mass is below the wing rather than above it. That's why it a very popular layout for light aircraft (and indeed, flying models too).

 

Because it places the fuselage closer to the ground, from a practical point of view, it makes for easier access for boarding and loading - and maintenance of certain parts.

 

A high wing design is often preferable for military freighters because of the easier loading using ramps etc. I always think it was a pity that the proposed military freighter version of the Herald was not chosen for the RAF. Poor old Handley Page were ostracised by the Ministry of Defence because they had refused to allow themselves to be merged into the two large airframe groups (BAC and Hawker Siddeley)  so the order went to Hawker Siddeley with their (rather gawky) Andover version of the HS748.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info Eric. Just love to fine out about all the history of the models I make. Makes it fascinating.

 

Laurie

[bentwaters81tfw]

This is the second Herald I have heard of with a part missing. I'm going to check my NOVO boxing to make sure it's all there.

I'm sure you can fabricate what's missing from the flash.

 

Yep. it's all there.

Edited May 10, 2021 by bentwaters81tfw

[Eric Mc]

I had a go at the Welsh model vacform not that long ago. It's quite small in 1/144.

 

 

 

 

[tempestfan]

1 hour ago, Eric Mc said:

"Novo" was not a model company as such. It was a branding exercise used by the buyers of the former FROG moulds to market the first "post FROG era" mouldings into the UK. 

At the time these Novo branded kits were being sold, some of the moulds were still quite new. The only significant difference between FROG mouldings and Novo mouldings was that under the Novo brand, softer plastic seemed to be used - and the decals were rubbish too.

 

The moulds only really went down hill when they started using them for Soviet internal market production. That's when the packaging and instructions became very inferior and weird and they started using very poor plastic, often in lurid colours (yellow, mauve, brown, bright blue, white etc).

 

Novo was a model (distribution) company, as far as I understand it it was a desperate attempt by DunbeeCrombexMarx, owner of the Frog moulds and brands, to achieve cheaper prices by "selling" the moulds to the USSR and getting paid in kind by moulded plastic. 

 

It it's any consolation, most of the ex-Frogs I got after the Wall came down in 1991 looked like resin was cast in those days, with most of the parts interconnected by plastic... Not sure if it was actual deterioration of the moulds (some definitely were), or improper tuning.

 

I am surprised the kit is not with Ark, as they have a lot of Frog tools fomerly with Maquette.

[Eric Mc]

Novo was a very temporary phenomenon set up purely to raise hard currency for the new Russian owners of the moulds. When FROG's owners went bust, the UK government negotiated the sale of the moulds to the Soviet Union. The Russians didn't have the hard currency required to pay the receiver/liquidator so Novo was set up purely to sell sufficient quantities of the ex-FROG mouldings to cover the agreed purchase price of each mould. Once that target figure had been reached, you no longer saw that kit again in Novo packaging. I think most of the Novo released kits had achieved their sales targets by 1980.

 

After that, the plan was that these kits would only be for sale behind the Iron Curtain. However, from the early 1980s on, some began to appear again at UK model shows etc in rather crude and anonymous boxes (sometimes just in plastic bags). It was in this period that the kits were at their worst regarding quality of plastic, flash and decals.

 

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the moulds ended up with various private enterprise outfits in Russia and Ukraine. I think Maquette probably emerged around that time. Are they still in existence?

 

Revell managed to get their hands on some of these moulds too and they seem to have been able to restore them to reasonable quality - and equip the kits with pretty decent decals too. 

[heloman1]

Oh dear, what a mess you have had to start out with. However, I'm sure you are going to make the best of it.

 

Colin

[LaurieS]

Just now, heloman1 said:

Oh dear, what a mess you have had to start out with. However, I'm sure you are going to make the best of it.

 

Colin

Certainly will Colin.

 

Laurie

[SteveMc]

Crikey Laurie, you don’t mind a challenge. Look forward to seeing this one take shape.

The Dart Herald was the first plane I ever flew in. Southampton to Belfast in late 1970. We went to visit my grandparents just before we left for Oz.

I had quite a few flights in Fokker Friendships around NSW in the mid 70's and a couple of years ago flew Sydney to Armidale and back in a Dash 8. It's always nice flying in these high winged planes with the great views you get from the cabins. Also had a few flights in ATR 72's with budget airlines around Indonesia. Great views again but they have a bad habit of falling out of the sky. I had one flight which was just about to land in Lombok when the pilot pulled everything up and we did aerobatics for 15 minutes until we landed without a word of explanation.

I will follow this build along as usual with interest.

Cheers

Steve.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by SteveMc
detail added