WW1 Coastal Patrol Boats – ML167

[NZ Bill]

I am making a 1:20 radio controlled model of ML167 that my grandfather served on in WW1 and have completed the basics and now are doing the details and have a lot of questions. The model reproduces both the exterior and below deck spaces to accurately represent the work and conditions the crew endured.  A week in coastal waters of the Irish Sea in winter was a nasty experience even before you factor in submarines and mines.  The RN commissioned ELCO to build 550 of these boats in double quick time as they are basically identical but the weaponry and things like the wheelhouse varied between boats and over time. They also carried different equipment according to role so I will focus on ML167.

It is entirely scratch built with very basic tools.  The hull was planked  onto a plug and the 80 sets of frames  etc inserted. All wood parts of hull and deck are sized as on the real boat. All the detailed interior modules are removable to allow maintenance of what is an operating model. All the batteries, radio and control gear is contained within the fuel tank which will be made 'pretty' at a later time.

I have started this model 20 years too late as my eyesight and dexterity are degrading by the day so I need to hurry and finish this in the next 2 years for a total of 7 years! A large part of this time is research and fixing the cockups made along the way which is a penalty of scratch building I guess!   : ))

 

I am interested in finding folk who are knowledgeable in the smaller WW1 naval craft. I have questions of colour, rope types, anchor handling, and a lot of similar details that come up as I try to decide how to fill the gaps not covered by the relatively few (around a couple of dozen and most are blurry) photos that are my limited source of information.

 

My current challenge is interpreting a photo of the Hotchkiss 3lb QF gun in an unusual high angle mount. - first photo included below.

Comments and questions are welcome.

 

Bill Radford  in NZ

 

I have made 2 other notable boats that I might cover another time.   They are :

3rd rate ship of the line 1690 - adapted from a Billings kit of the Vasa- done in 1977

SL Branksome  ex Lake Windermere -1:7 scale (2 metres long) full rc including 2 animated figures and voice. Now electrically driven.

 

 

 More to follow once I check this is working!

 

[NZ Bill]

This is the key page out of the

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cinderellas of the Fleet book. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Planks being applied to the plaster plug.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hull in a jig to hold shape while the ribs are inserted. A profile gauge copied hull shape to a jig where the ribs were laminated. There are 80 pars of ribs!

One of the metal bulkheads can be seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hull with lining and bulkheads in place, start of the gun support structure, access ladder into the forecastle. 

The deck, charthouse, wheelhouse is designed to lift off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

State of construction May 2021.

The metal frame supports the decks when the interior is exposed.

The gun is a rough paper mock-up while I research it. 

All doors, hatches,windows, drawers and cupboards open and the plan is to stock then with the appropriate contents.  Anyone grown 1:20 scale carrots recently?

The anchor needs to be changed to an Admiralty pattern as that is shown on an ML1167 photo. 

 

Does anyone have a clear photo of an anchor winch of this period? It will be similar to this one as it is suggested in the drawings but I had to guess details for this version!    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This view shows the aft view.

The small boat was made of 2 metal pressings (ref my grandfather's memoir') so to make a thin hull I used 2 layers of tissue then soaked with CNZ glue.  Mucky job but good result. The davits include on of my 'deliberate' mistakes! 

 

Does anyone know the colour of cordage from this period?  I make my own ropes but dying can be hit and miss. I suspect that they are not jet black as here.

 

Lettering on the depth Charges will be tricky. I can only see WW2  lettering so does anyone know what they did in WW1?

 

These are wet boats so I have screwed the aft deck down tight and the rudder quadrant is magnetically connected to the servo under the deck.

 

 

 

 

The wheelhouse is strictly ML167 but has some problems.

I cannot see what should be on the starboard side (flag rack) and although photos show the signal lamp in that top central position but it is hard to see how it was operated.

 

The compass binnacle contains a real working compass and a light. I have yet to fit the speaking tubes and the portable electric lantern as well as some notices. 

 

I regret the non-scale screws but they are necessary for operational and maintenance reasons.  Just don't look at them!

 

The grating covers a hole into the engine room to admit cooling air as brushless motors need cooling! The engine room hatch will  also be open in operation.

 

 

 

 

 

The left section is the fuel tank and water tanks under the chart house. It contains the water cooled esc's at the bottom, the LiPo batter to the right and a thermostat on the nearside. The radio and probably a second battery is not in this photo.

 

On the right is the engine room with engines removed. You can see each train is the cooling fan, the brushless motor and the universal joint to the drive shaft.

Each train sits in the crankcase of its motor. The nearside motor has a temperature sensor so when trickling about no cooling is needed and no fan noise but if it gets hot the thermostat turns on both fans to force cool the motors. I tested this and it worked!

The black cylinder is compressed starting air storage.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   This is one of the dummy engine's outboard side which will be invisible when installed.  It shows the complex external valve gear  and the exhaust manifold.

 

The aluminium crankcase contains the brushless motor and fan.  In fact there is no such tunnel in the real boat as it had open cranks - some compromises had to be made to make it function.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

View if the engine rom so far.  At right are the compressed starting air cylinders, the two engines with the black silencers either side, the battery boxes and electrical panel bottom left, companionway and then the aux engine that is also the emergency air compressor, bilge and fire pumps and generator.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Close up of the Aux engine etc.  I did not notice the floor plates were displaced when I took the photo, sorry,

The portholes are all thin glass (ex phone protectors) and water tight. The covers do not actually hinge.

Yu can see the ribs and the continuation of the aft deck beam shelf.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NZ Bill]

And a few more to finish.

 

A general shot of a real engine room to show what mine should have looked like!

I am not unhappy as it will still help people understand, and be impressed, by our grand parents when they went to war for us.

 

These were petrol starting engines that then switched to a  mix of petrol/kero but they were prone to fires which sunk a few of them.  My grandfather had such a fire but was able to starve it of air and live to fight another day.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the galley.   I forgot to close the drawers 

The stove is petrol fired (3 burners) with 2 ovens below. An oven is a metal box inside a metal box and I did the same. Both doors open and there are oven racks inside!

 

Many things are secured with magnets which you can see in the pots but they will later be covered by indigestible food if my grandfather is to believed!

 

Then there is a tiny bench/sink/cupboard item with a califont over to make hot water for tea etc

There is another bench and cupboard both sides under the side decks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the left is both the galley and wardroom.

 

I regret using actual mahogany even though it was probably used on the real boat but I think I will leave it and do more features instead of perfecting this one. The table just lifts out (more magnets) so I could do it later.  It is a folding table made of at least 16 parts.

The section of seat in the doorway hinges up for access.

 

The wheel controls the depth and direction of a dual bulb sub-detecting stethoscope (no batteries involved.)  The headset is in the black cupboard.

Other cupboards store something but I have no information. If you have any ideas I would love to hear them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Holy of Holies - 2 officers live here!

I gave then made up beds instead of the ticking mattresses and bed rolls of the 'men'. 

The hatches in the floor are access to the prop shafts.

There is a lot of detail still to add - the head lacks usual items but a BIG question is what sort of toilet paper was standard naval issue in WW1?

The dresser on the left was to hang officer uniforms and I guess the drawers underneath the beds was the rest of their personal gear.  My grandfather told me the wet weather gear was either on their backs or on the hooks!

There are many items to add like the desk, clock, canvas shield over starboard bunk to divert spray from the companionway and things like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally this is one of 3 pencil sketches done by a real ML Skipper of his crew in the forecastle!

This not only provided a lot of detail info for the area it graphically shows how congested the space was for 7 or 8 men for a week!   It must have been hell when a new crewmember was seasick which was common.

The background has a sort of dresser and folding table where all their meals were served from a pot, sauce added to improve the taste and finally consumed.  Carrying the pot of the day from galley to forecastle when there was a sea running was a dangerous gamble!

 

 

 

 

 

IN CONCLUSION:  Thankyou for taking the time to take a look at my current pride and joy.

I really only know the basics about these boats and are eager to hear of anything about them including the high angle mounting of the gun, the colour of ropes, the type of toilet paper and a host of other details including colours as I have yet to do any of the final painting.

 

Thank you

Bill Radford

Hamilton, New Zealand

[dnl42]

It should be your pride and joy! That is truly excellent work! I thought a couple of the model close-up pix were full-sized!  

[NZ Bill]

Thanks dnl42.  At that scale the detail should be easy-ish but it is the result of a lot of trial and error, mostly error for the tricky bits.

I am sure it will be a popular model at the lake where I will be able to spread more understanding of what war at sea involved which is an important goal.

 

 

Quote

 

 

[longshanks]

Superb work to date.....

Thank you for sharing with us

 

Kev

[malpaso]

What a great model.  It has real charm!

 

I didnt expect to be looking this up but you never know where Britmodeller will lead you!  Scratchy hard bog papers (Izal, Bronco etc) were well established by WW1, apparently.  I guess Government or RN would have had contracts for supply, but whether as wired sheets, packs or rolls?

[NZ Bill]

Hi Malpaso - Yes it is interesting indeed.

I researched those brands and a few other threads but found no definitive result.

However on balance I would put money on hard scratchy sheets in a pack as hard and scratchy was mainstream at the time and packs would allow efficient storage and distribution. BUT I now doubt that there was a pack in the head! The army had  a daily personal ration and so I suspect the Navy did too.  Hence a sailor in a hurry had to rummage in his bunk for his pack.  Hence I will probably omit paper dispensers in the forecastle head and include 2 discrete packs in the officers' head. 

This is a bit like China today where no public loos have paper so everyone carries a small pack of buys from the lady retailing it at the door! 

It is another example where I have to draw the most probable conclusion from a set of soft facts.  

Thanks for the input!

[stevehnz]

Hi Bill, what a lovely wander I've had through this just now, absolutely beautiful work on display there. In the bit about the dinghy, you mention your "Grandfather's memoir"  was this a published work or something for family. It is a rare thing to have info like that from the source as it were. I envy you the skills & patience that you put into this.

Steve.

[beefy66]

Amazing build so many details in that engine room.  👍

 

beefy

[GrzeM]

That's impressive!

[Aayin1941]

Absolutely beautiful build! Kudos on such commitment to detail 👍

[NZ Bill]

Hi Malpaso - Yes it is interesting indeed.

I researched those brands and a few other threads but found no definitive result.

However on balance I would put money on hard scratchy sheets in a pack as hard and scratchy was mainstream at the time and packs would allow efficient storage and distribution. BUT I now doubt that there was a pack in the head! The army had  a daily personal ration and so I suspect the Navy did too.  Hence a sailor in a hurry had to rummage in his bunk for his pack.  Hence I will probably omit paper dispensers in the forecastle head and include 2 discrete packs in the officers' head. 

This is a bit like China today where no public loos have paper so everyone carries a small pack of buys from the lady retailing it at the door! 

It is another example where I have to draw the most probable conclusion from a set of soft facts.  

Thanks for the input!

[NZ Bill]

Hi Stevehnz,   I hope your weather in Nelson was better than hours today (sailing cancelled!)

My grandfather's memoir is unpublished and written in his later years so covers most of his life but his war experience is a big part of it. 

If you are working on a similar area of naval history I would be happy to share.

I also have his brother's diary/series of letters from his signing up for the army to a bout a week before he was killed at Ypres in April 1918.

They are enlightening documents.

 I really want to understand the construction/operation of their Hotchkiss gun.,

My other areas of need are less critical, like the accuracy of my anchor winch and where to obtain figures of suitable scale so I have put a request up in the Figures section here.

You might be amused by my other boat, SL Branksome which at 1\;7 scale has some large figures on it and the lady (owner) in the bow will turn to you and invite you aboard or now might remind you to scan your codes to avoid another lockdown!  She is popular with everyone but especially with foreign tourists as she can greet you in 50 different languages!  Her voice is by Bluetooth from my phone and is a great success.

 

Bill

 

 

[robgizlu]

Agree with all of the above - what a beautiful and detailed model 

One to be extremely proud of 

Rob

[Cadman]

4 hours ago, NZ Bill said:

Hi Malpaso - Yes it is interesting indeed.

I researched those brands and a few other threads but found no definitive result.

However on balance I would put money on hard scratchy sheets in a pack as hard and scratchy was mainstream at the time and packs would allow efficient storage and distribution. BUT I now doubt that there was a pack in the head! The army had  a daily personal ration and so I suspect the Navy did too.  Hence a sailor in a hurry had to rummage in his bunk for his pack.  Hence I will probably omit paper dispensers in the forecastle head and include 2 discrete packs in the officers' head. 

This is a bit like China today where no public loos have paper so everyone carries a small pack of buys from the lady retailing it at the door! 

It is another example where I have to draw the most probable conclusion from a set of soft facts.  

Thanks for the input!

 

You've sure got that right. Facilities in Western Hotel Chains are generally clean and well equipped, but Public Conveniences are best avoided if at all possible.

 

This is an amazing scratch-built model and I'm going to be following future updates with avid interest.

[longshanks]

On 07/05/2021 at 00:00, NZ Bill said:

rope types

 Hi Bill

 

What few references I have refer to Hemp rope being used for mooring lines, boat falls, tackles etc.. Hemp is a pale straw colour when new. As for size I would suggest 40/50mm diameter for mooring lines. Admiralty seamanship give breaking strain of 8 tons for  38mm diameter and 15 tons for 50mm.

 

If you want to avoid hairy  string I would look to Italian rigging cord/thread. I have Amati and Mantua cord both would look right colour wise

 

Hope this helps

 

Kev

[NZ Bill]

Thanks for that Kev.  Real information!   😀

I have been making my own rope and generally avoid buying actual model supplies if at all possible.  Price and pride drive this quirk.

I will look for suitable fibre/string and have a go.  At that size some cordage may have been double wound but I will experiment with 3 times multiple strands and see how that works out.  Not today though as I am still focussed on the gun research!

 

Bill