1:72 Revell Consolidated PB4Y-2 Privateer

[perdu]

really worthwhile explanification Bill, thanks.

[Fritag]

4 hours ago, perdu said:

really worthwhile explanification Bill, thanks.

 

Ditto.

 

Still don’t look heavy duty enuff tho’.  But engineering is for bloke’s with brains who can do maths n’ stuff (apologies for pluralising maths on a U.S. citizens thread, Bill - old habits and all that )

[Navy Bird]

48 minutes ago, Fritag said:

Still don’t look heavy duty enuff tho’.  But engineering is for bloke’s with brains who can do maths n’ stuff (apologies for pluralising maths on a U.S. citizens thread, Bill - old habits and all that )

 

No problem - I say maths all the time if I'm lumping several disciplines together. Geometry is best though - me and Euclid were tight. And it has cool words like congruent.    

[Brandy]

11 minutes ago, Navy Bird said:

And it has cool words like congruent.    

That really made me laugh. My high school maths teacher always pronounced it "congwooant" and curled his lip like Billy Idol when he said it!

 

Ian

[LorenSharp]

1 hour ago, Navy Bird said:

 

No problem - I say maths all the time if I'm lumping several disciplines together. Geometry is best though - me and Euclid were tight. And it has cool words like congruent.    

And not to mention Obtuse🤔

[72modeler]

On 6/3/2021 at 6:44 PM, Navy Bird said:

Also note how there is no "gear bay" per se - it's all pretty mush open space

Open space? Not very much that I can see! You mean to tell me grown men wearing a parachute pack and a bulky flight suit/jacket managed to squeeze either side of the nose gear after deploying it in a bomber that was most likely either spinning or diving? No wonder so few men got out of a B-24/PB4Y...at least the crew in the forward section. Those were some brave young men! Thanks for the photos- never really knew how the nose gear worked.

Mike

[72modeler]

19 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

And not to mention Obtuse

"Well, scribe me an arc and call me congruent!"  My high school geometry teacher used to say that all the time, and it always made us laugh; of course we had no clue what the h--- he was talking about! 

Mike

[Andwil]

19 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

And not to mention Obtuse🤔

Obtuse is what I am when it comes to geometry 

 

AW

[CedB]

Great work on the nose gear Bill, nice stuff  

 

Sorry to hear about the need for the op but, hopefully, you'll be better for it? Fingers crossed here.

[Martian]

Sorry to hear abut the op Bill. Get well soon.

 

Martian 👽

[Navy Bird]

11 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Thanks for the photos- never really knew how the nose gear worked.

 

There is a great series of drawings in the Ginter book showing the retraction sequence. The arm between the top of the strut and the top of the actuator ram literally folds itself in half by the middle of the retraction sequence only to open itself up again nice and straight at the end. In the meantime, the top of the strut has pivoted through that arm (note the pivot points in the above drawing) almost 180 degrees. Pretty clever. The question, of course, is why do it that way?

 

I think there is more room starboard of the nose gear than it looks like - the B-24 is a pretty big aeroplane. I mean, pilots could supposedly dance inside a P-47 right?    

 

11 hours ago, 72modeler said:

"Well, scribe me an arc and call me congruent!"  My high school geometry teacher used to say that all the time, and it always made us laugh; of course we had no clue what the h--- he was talking about! 

 

Hey, I got 100% on my NYS Regents geometry exam, so I knew what he was talking about! As a matter of fact, to prove my enduring nerdness I happen to have a copy of Euclid's treatise on geometry (excellent, by the way). I think the e-book costs about two quid at Delphi Ancient Classics. 

 

*****

 

Meanwhile, back at the model, I decided to remove the props from their casting blocks. Cobra designed a very unusual way to cast the props - I never seen anyone else do this. I have to admit that I hadn't looked at this closely and I figured that this was just some of the common resin "flash".

 

 

Once I removed the prop, though, I found it was way more than that.

 

 

<rant on> Sorry, Cobra, but this is simply unacceptable. Quite possibly the worst resin casting I have ever seen. Whatever detail you put into hub of the the master is completely and permanently lost. I mean, come on - do I look like a sculptor? There is no way I'm going to waste my time trying to make these look acceptable. All four props are like this. Plus, this resin is somewhat flexible - I can bend those blades quite a bit without breaking them. Maybe there is an advantage to that, but I don't care for it.

 

I also found some serious problems with the casting of the cowlings (looks like foreign substances, i.e. crud, got into the mould closing up some of the chin intakes) but I think I can save those. The "guns" are simply rectangular cubes with rods sticking out of them. No detail at all. WTF? They are no better than what Revell/Matchbox provide.

 

The vacuform parts provided by Cobra are quite soft. The top turrets particularly so. The framing on the canopy and windscreen look like it has melted in the heat. The one clear resin bit, the bombardier's window on the lower nose, is somewhat cloudy. Not sure if it will polish up nice and clear or not. Comparing it to the kit part, all I see different is the shape of the window framing. And it's not a big difference. 

 

Other bits, like the engines and nacelles, look pretty good. On initial look the turret parts look OK as well. So what can I say? This Cobra set is a definite mixed bag, and certainly not worth the money I paid for it. I am quite dissatisfied at this point. I hear the new owners of the tooling plan on raising the price to $100 - they better change some things first or the reviews will be brutal. </rant off>     

 

So out came the credit card, and orders were placed for some new parts including 12 Browning machine guns from Eduard, four props from Quickboost, and a full set of vacuform clear parts from Falcon which include the astrodome which both Revell/Matchbox and Cobra forgot. In the meantime I will get to work finishing the painting of the cockpit and forward fuselage components. BTW, I added the brake pedals to the rudder pedals with some leftover photoetch from my CMR Firebrand (I think they might have originally been rocket fins). Always save everything!"

 

Cheers,

Bill the Grumpy Grouch

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, Navy Bird said:

four props from Quickboost,

Which QB props did you get? IIRC, all of their B-24 props are the paddle blade type, and the Privateer props were not as wide in chord and moere pointed towards the trip. But both types have the same diameter, so can be easily re-shaped. Since you have the Ginter book, there are plenty of photos to look at for the correct shape.

Mike

 

 

[Navy Bird]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

But both types have the same diameter, so can be easily re-shaped. 

 

That's the plan, if necessary. The Ginter book and my B-24 references both say Hamilton Standard Hydromatic constant speed propeller with 6353A-18 blades. That may refer to the blade airfoil, I don't know. But I'll reshape if I have to.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

[72modeler]

20 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

That may refer to the blade airfoil, I don't know. But I'll reshape if I have to

Here's a linked photo to the paddle blade prop that was installed midway during the B-24D production run and subsequent.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pratt_%26_Whitney_R-1830_No.2_on_a_B-24_Liberator.jpg

 

Here's a linked photo to the prop used on PB4Y-2's- they didn't need the paddle blade prop because they had no turbochargers and flew at lower altitudes than the USAAF Liberators.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dougsheley/13932933871/

 

Easy to re-shape the QB paddle blade props; I'm thinking, when I get around to doing my Matchbox PB4Y-2 using my Cobra conversion set, if the props are as crude as the ones you showed, I might just get two sets of QB PBY-5 props, as the Catalina used the same R-1830 engines and props as the PB4Y-2. (Guess I need to pull my Cobra set and see if the props are as bad as yours- maybe I dodged a bullet, as I got my set as soon as they were released; will let you know what I find out.)

Mike

Edited June 6, 2021 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[TheyJammedKenny!]

What a disappointment!  I used blades from the old Airfix B-24 kit for my Privateer.  

[David H]

17 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

 

 

 

Once I removed the prop, though, I found it was way more than that.

 

 

<rant on> Sorry, Cobra, but this is simply unacceptable. Quite possibly the worst resin casting I have ever seen. Whatever detail you put into hub of the the master is completely and permanently lost. I mean, come on - do I look like a sculptor? There is no way I'm going to waste my time trying to make these look acceptable. All four props are like this. Plus, this resin is somewhat flexible - I can bend those blades quite a bit without breaking them. Maybe there is an advantage to that, but I don't care for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 Always save everything!"

 

Cheers,

Bill the Grumpy Grouch

Egad.

Not to be Devils advocate, but i think this is a case of something not worth saving. I too found casting imperfections in my cowlings.

 

Curious to see how well the Falcon ClearVax parts work out.

 

-d-

[Shalako]

17 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

I mean, come on - do I look like a sculptor?

 

 

OK, seriously now spending $100 for a resin set that's not up to the standards anyone would expect is definitely something to avoid. Over the past few months I was very tempted and more than once to buy this set from Ebay, but, thank goodness my instinct has prevented me from doing so.

 

The best thing to do is to buy just enough aftermarket details' sets to improve some areas and that's it. No need to open bombs' bays or, resin LG wells.  

[TheyJammedKenny!]

3 hours ago, David H said:

Falcon ClearVax parts

If these are the same as Squadron True Details, in my experience, the cockpit parts fit fine!  The nose turret transparency is also good.  The tail turret is more of a problem, because it consists of two vacu-form parts, split down the turret side.  I was unable, using methods available to me at the time, to get this to stay together or look right.

[Navy Bird]

On 06/06/2021 at 00:08, 72modeler said:

I might just get two sets of QB PBY-5 props, as the Catalina used the same R-1830 engines and props as the PB4Y-2.

 

Hey, I got that set in the stash. I never thought about using it. Oh well, I guess I'll have a spare set of B-24 props. Wait, maybe not spare - I have a B-24J in the stash.

 

On 06/06/2021 at 13:17, David H said:

Not to be Devils advocate, but i think this is a case of something not worth saving. I too found casting imperfections in my cowlings.

 

I hope they're not as bad as mine. I started trying to clean them up last night and three of the four are really bad. I don't know if I can fix them. Which will be a quandary for sure.

 

On 06/06/2021 at 13:19, Shalako said:

Over the past few months I was very tempted and more than once to buy this set from Ebay, but, thank goodness my instinct has prevented me from doing so.

 

At this point, I wouldn't recommend buying the Cobra set unless you got a really good price. Some of it looks quite nice, though, and would be worth a shot if the price were right.

 

22 hours ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

If these are the same as Squadron True Details, in my experience, the cockpit parts fit fine! 

 

I believe the Squadron canopies were made by Falcon.

 

*****

 

Here is my lame attempt at adding the brake pedals. Thank goodness no one will ever see them. Ha!

 

 

Next, the Joys of Dremel-ing brought to you by your local association for ham-fisted modellers. I fired up the old Dremel tool to remove the original locations for the kit's nose gear from the forward fuselage parts. It worked really well on the first fuselage half, but I wasn't paying close enough attention on the second and ground my way all the way through the fuselage. Oops. I cut a piece of thick card stock to match the gaping wound and I think with a bit more work no one will notice it.

 

 

I probably should have set it to a lower speed. But I really like that shrill dentist drill-like sound. LOL.    

 

More work is needed here as I'm pretty sure that the opening for the nose gear should be a rectangle, and not a hexagon. The nose gear doors in the Revell/Matchbox kit have edges at an angle to match this opening, but I haven't been able to find any photos or drawings that verify this. My B-24 and PB4Y-1 references all show a "normal" rectangular opening, as does the B-24J kit in my stash. So I'll go out on a limb and say that Matchbox got this wrong. Unless, of course, someone knows better and I'll be glad to change my mind upon receipt of certified photos notarized by an appropriate government official.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

 

[heloman1]

Don't know what happened withy our health Bill  but trust all is well?

Mathematics for me at school, were a total mystery, Mrs Cosgrove at primary , was a total haragon! It didn't get better in secondary school. 

It wasn't until I got into the navy working on aircraft that maths came to me! I have to ay, it's all about the teacher pupil relationship!

 

Colin

[Shalako]

15 hours ago, heloman1 said:

Mathematics for me at school, were a total mystery, Mrs Cosgrove at primary , was a total haragon! It didn't get better in secondary school. 

 

Colin

I have experienced a similar issue but, with my French teachers. Six years of learning French BUT, only the two really made the difference because I had two of the most beautiful female French teachers! AND it was also the 80s when mini skirts were in fashion. ô là! là!

 

Those were the days!

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Navy Bird, just catching up on your incredible work--hope you are feeling better--looking forward to how you sort out the props--I have no doubt it will be work to emulate--best, Erwin 

[Fritag]

22 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

Here is my lame attempt at adding the brake pedals

 

Perfect for 1/72 size tootsies (I mean as in the British meaning of a child's word for a person's foot!) 

 

22 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

Next, the Joys of Dremel-ing brought to you by your local association for ham-fisted modellers. I fired up the old Dremel tool to remove the original locations for the kit's nose gear from the forward fuselage parts. It worked really well on the first fuselage half, but I wasn't paying close enough attention on the second and ground my way all the way through the fuselage. Oops. I cut a piece of thick card stock to match the gaping wound and I think with a bit more work no one will notice it.

 

Cripes.  Navy Bird is in fact human and capable of a bit of ham-fistedness.  Albeit followed by flawless recovery work.

 

Still, in later years if someone scrapes the paint off then the repair will be there to be seen.  Bit like with the body work on my first few cars actually! Except with better workmanship….

 

[Navy Bird]

3 minutes ago, Fritag said:

Cripes.  Navy Bird is in fact human and capable of a bit of ham-fistedness.  Albeit followed by flawless recovery work.

 

Still, in later years if someone scrapes the paint off then the repair will be there to be seen.  Bit like with the body work on my first few cars actually! Except with better workmanship….

 

Ham-fistedness is my middle name. (Well, no, it's actually Roger. But when I tell people that, they ask for a shubbery.)    🌳

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Martian]

On 06/06/2021 at 00:36, Navy Bird said:

This Cobra set is a definite mixed bag, and certainly not worth the money I paid for it. I am quite dissatisfied at this point. I hear the new owners of the tooling plan on raising the price to $100 - they better change some things first or the reviews will be brutal. </rant off>     

Tell them you know this deranged, blurglecruncheon toting Martian who has an even more deranged member of the Imperial General Staff for a friend, aka @general melchett, and if they don't behave you will send them round. Baldrick's filet mignons being just a courtesy gesture. Even better send them the pictures, that should do the trick!

 

Helpful of Mars👽