Trials with Anycubic Photon Mono X

[lesthegringo]

Hi all, I committed a few weeks back to getting one of the Mono X printers, and today I finally got around to giving it a go.

 

I used the Anycubic Basic black resin, and tried a small test print of the front brake disc I 3D rendered forthe Tamiya 312T4. I used the factory settings first time, which printed the supports but naff all else.

 

I then messed around a bit with the exposure time, increasing it and also upping the UV light power to 80% from the factory 50%. This time it printed (hopefully you can see pictures) and at the moment all I can say is that it gave mixed results. The lower half of the print is nice, with some banding visible but virtualy undetectable by touch; the layer height I tested with was 0.05mm, coarser than its capabilities. Although the pictures don't show them, you can see the fine spiral grooves on the disc face, and here a lesson in designing came up. I will have to exaggerate some of the finer features as they are virtually invisible, and a layer of paint would eradicate them. Think overscale rivets on wings

 

I also, by holding it up to the light, can see the internal vents have been produced, but here one of the processes that I employed obviously was no good. I used what I believe to be an alcohol based cleaning fluid sourced locally (I can't find IPA for sale here in Hungary) and I think that it did not dissolve the uncured resin, and so I think the resin stayed in the vents, and subsequently cured, blocking them off to the point where it obliterated the detail. The same problem I believe is also to blame for the absolutely horribe reverse side of the print, where the supports were. I think the supports trapped pools of resin, which again the stuff I used did not wash away, so when that cured it left the rear of the disc all blobby.

 

A couple of other collateral points. First, and this is so obvious with hindsight, don't use the printer in somewhere well lit like a consevatory; yes, you can see what you are doing, but when you don't have the cover on, the resin starts curing in the tanks and on the back of the build plate .

 

Secondly, the Anycubic black resin is rather translucent, and also seeems to require a slightly longer cure time than some of the other colours. It's OK, but I will be trying some Elegoo rapid gray resin to see what difference that makes.

 

Thirdly, get one of those silicone rubber spatulas used for cooking, as it is great for helping clean up the back of the build plate prior to removing it. It will still be messy and resin will be dripping but there will be less.

 

Fourth, working out what products I can get locally to do post print pre final cure washing will prevent me ruining good prints, and is something I should have checked before printing not after. Whatever it is, it must be able to dissolve the uncured resin comletely so that it washes it away from all the fine details and any recesses.  

Lastly, I am going to get one of those silicone rubber funnels with a stainless mesh sieve built in - Amazon has them. Pouring the excess resin back into the bottle is very messy, and a good funnel wih a sieve is gonna be essential.

 

As I try more I will post the results here

 

Cheers

 

Les

 

 

[lesthegringo]

nope, no pictures, and post the photobucket debacle I stopped putting them on web based sites.

 

Oh well

 

Les

[Stu_davros]

Hello Les, I've had a Mono x for about 3 months and found it to be a really good printer. Like you it took me several failed prints to get the settings dialled in but now it's pretty good.

If you can't get IPA I found Acetone is good when diluted 70/30 with water, and give the print a good rinse in cold water after the acetone.

The problem with the trapped resin is something you really have to deal with during the design phase, the cured resin is porous and the uncured resin will weep through a surface if not cleaned out.

I look forward to seeing your pics when you get them sorted.

Cheers,

Stuart

[lesthegringo]

Thanks - I will have to see what is available here, I don't even remember seeing acetone for sale. Maybe nail polish remover in smalll quantities.....?

 

The trial file was the front brake disc  .stl that can be found here 

https://grabcad.com/library/parts-for-tamiya-1-12-ferrari-312t4-1

 

the brake vents are open at both ends, so the trapping I suspect was all my own fault for using the wrong stuff before it got cured by daylight

 

Les

Edited May 5, 2021 by lesthegringo

[ICMF]

The factory settings should have been fine.  If your supports printed but the part didn't, it means your support settings are wrong and need adjusted.  Larger contact diameter and/or contact type.  As a rule of thumb, the default Chitubox settings for 'fine' supports will always be TOO fine to print.  You'll want to use medium or heavy (or change the defaults).

 

Layer height won't really give you 'more' detail, per se.  That's limited by the X/Y resolution of the printer.  It will simply give smoother (or coarser) transitions between layers.

 

The reverse side, around your supports...  that's a standard problem.  Watch this video for a really excellent breakdown of this, and may other issues: 

 

 

The solution is either orientation, or design.  If your brake disc is 45` to the bed, you'll have supports covering the back, and will have a terrible finish on that surface.  If it's perpendicular to the bed, with appropriate supports, it will print cleanly on both surfaces.  Alternatively, you can tweak the design so that the two faces print separately, so you can optimize the orientation for each face.

 

Lastly, IPA = Isopropanol = Isopropyl Alcohol = Rubbing Alcohol = Ethanol.  You SHOULD be able to find it somewhere, locally, whether it's in a pharmacy, hardware store, paint store or electronics (component - think resistors and diodes and stuff) store.  Barring that, denatured alcohol = methylated spirits = wood spirit = wood alcohol is a reasonable substitute and should be available in hardware stores, paint stores and camping stores (it's used for camping stoves).  I would avoid acetone - apart from its higher toxicity, I'd be concerned with it degrading the acrylic components in the cured resin.  A quick spray or rinse might be okay, but a longer soak could be problematic.

 

[lesthegringo]

I actually used Lychee for the supports after seeing the video quoted plus a few others, on the basis that Lychee did a better job on the supports according to people who used both. As for the exposure, the first try didn't make any big blobs in the resin, just some vague thin cured areas, but using the same supports and higher UV strength, it printed ok, until I messed it up with my post processing. 

 

Despite your logical argument, IPA is not freely available; bizarrely nor are sheets of MDF, goodness knows why. There are electronics shops that will sell you 200ml of IPA for a tenner, but until recently of course all those shops were shut. 

 

I was wondering whether I can use meths, if I can find it of course

 

***edit**** I have been told that local pharmacies do have 'surgical alcohol' in small (100ml) bottles too. The irony is that I can actually buy a complete working still for distilling spirits at home in the local DIY store.....

 

Les

Edited May 6, 2021 by lesthegringo

[lesthegringo]

Well, I got some of the surgical alcolhol from the pharmacy.... it is 70% proof, and the maximum that they were allowed to sell me by law was 50ml. Seems that although you can buy a still, you can't have the alcohol, although Vodka and Palinka are strong alcohol based spirits that are freely available. However, at the equivalent of 40 quid a litre, it is not a viable ongoing option but I have at least enough to do another trial print tomorrow

 

I may see what they have at the electronics component store or if the equivalent of meths is available at the weekend. One other thought was to maybe try Gunze or Tamiya lacquer thinner, has anyone tried that for washing off the resin?

 

Cheers

 

Les

[lesthegringo]

Back again following a largely successful trial today. I increased the exposure time slightly (2 secs to 2.5 secs) and reduced the UV power to 70%, and then printed a revised brake disk model with slightly exaggerated surface features, and also revised the orientation of the part so it sat perpendicular to the build plate. This meant far fewer supports, with virtually none on the disc faces themselves. I did 6 prints in one go, the idea being to see what cleaning fluids would work.

 

After 1 hour and 18 minutes, I had 4 perfectly formed prints, and two totally absent prints. The good prints were towards the ends of the build plates with the failed prints the two centre ones. A quick check with a steel rule on the build plate shows that it is banana shaped, with the centre being 0.5 mm higher than the ends.  Message sent to AnyCubic, let's see how they respond.

 

Nonetheless four prints came out good, so I got the alcohol and washed one off in a little pot. I also tried washing with 'mineral spirirts' (I believe equivalent to white spirits), a synthetic thinner that I believe is a lacquer thinner (untranslatable name) and another that I believe was a turpentine substitute. Of the latter three, only the 'lacquer thinner' washed the liquid resin away, but also left the part soft (pre final cure). It did not however dissolve the part cured resin, so may be good for a fast prewash on parts, I will experiment further.

 

However the part washed in alcohol came out perfectly without any issues as you would imagine. The revised surface features are clearly visible, the brake disk venting is perfecly formed, and the resin washed out without a problem. The bolt heads and holes are visible, and once I have properly cleaned up the support nubs, they will be perfect replacements for the Tamiya kit parts. I cured them in daylight for 20 mins or so, and after the final cure measured them up to see how much shrinkage ocurred between design and final part. Happily, there is no discernable shrinkage. I have a digital caliper that is accurate to 0.05mm and it did not show any deviation from the design size including the major diameter.

 

So I am very happy so far, with the caveat of the bent build plate (I am not alone on this after searching the net). I still have to play around with settings some more to dial in the printer better, plus I want to try different resins to see what if any difference they make. The build plate I could probably flatten myself with a surface table or glass plate and some 220 grit wet or dry, but I do hope that AnyCubic step up to the plate on this and supply a corrected one. It's also clear that there will always be a compromise between build orientation versus supports, but as the prints will be predominantly for my own use I can take my time with redoing prints at different angles to get the best from it.

 

Cheers

 

Les 

Edited May 7, 2021 by lesthegringo

[plasticguy]

Hello, 

 

some questions and some thoughts.

 

You talk about partial prints, how did you place your 6 parts and where were localized the absent parts on the print?

 

And in general, I will say you need to slow down your process, learn to properly use your printer before playing with things like UV light power or sanding the build plate.

Before asking Anycubic a new build plate or sanding the one you've got, are your build plate levelled? How?

Because most people I saw complaining about their build plate or using tweeks, in fact don't level their build plate properly or don't know how to place parts to not have a noticeable torque during printing.

 

Don't rush, because the more failed prints you make, the more fragments you let in your vat, and in the end, without a proprer cleaning, you will at least puncture your FEP or worst crush your screen.

[lesthegringo]

**** edited to correct an error in bold, see post further down for details****

 

Hi there

 

The prints were arranged in a line in the middle of the buildplate along the long axis of the plate. So, from left to right on the build plate it was 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6. The ones that failed to print were numbers 3 and 4. This is coincident with the build plate being arched upwards by 0.5mm, which is 10 times the layer height value. Considering that prints 1, 2, 5 & 6 all printed perfectly, I cannot believe that the warped build plate is just a coincidence. And believe me that the build plate is warped, I have a milling machine and a dial test indicator that confirms what a straight edge shows. If you go to google and search for it, it is a known issue and even Amazon reviews comment about it.

 

As for the build plate leveling, all the online video reviews showed how to do it; it is not even remotely like a difficult process. Also take into account I have had an FDM 3D printer for years printing ABS parts for my Flight Sim rig, which is far more tricky to set up with leveling, adhesion issues, having to get the build plate and hot end temperatures right, extrusion values, having to measure the filament diameter, traverse speed, flow rates, the list is endless. With the Resin printer, you have exposure time x 2 (initial layer plus subsequent layers) and exposure level, and the bed movement settings. I will repeat, when you have 4 out of six identical shaped prints done at the same time with the same settings come out perfectly, you cannot be far off being right on the settings.

 

As for the solidified resin in the tank, every review makes it clear that you strain out the resin between prints, as even if the print comes out fine, you may be left with small pieces of cured resin floating around that can attach to the subsequent print and ruin it, plus that way you ensure that the resin is properly mixed prior to a new print. I won't pretend that this isn't a messy business though, and I can see why some reviewers opted for an additional resin tank so that they could just swap a clean one on changeover.

 

It is clear that there is always some improvement that can be made on the settings to dial them in correctly so that the print comes out as good as it can be and I will continue to see what fine tuning I can do; different resins will almost certainly make me have to start again. The printer shows a lot of promise, as mentioned the detail and precision of the prints is nothing short of incredible, even at this early stage. I'm looking forwards to just how good they can be and also seeing what parts I can make.

 

Oh, and I still have to find a cheap source of a washing agent, my little bottle of 70% alcohol will do two prints max!

 

Les

Edited May 9, 2021 by lesthegringo
correction to wording

[plasticguy]

6 hours ago, lesthegringo said:

With the Resin printer, you have exposure time x 2 (initial layer plus subsequent layers) and exposure time, and the bed movement settings. I will repeat, when you have 4 out of six identical shaped prints done at the same time with the same settings come out perfectly, you cannot be far off being right on the settings.

 

 

It may be one part of your problem.

There's a rule of thumb for the Bottom Exposure Time, BET is supposed to be 5-8 times the ET.

 

You've got to have a decent amount of overcured resin in the bed layer, because this bed will support all the constraints.

If the resin in the bed isn't overcured enough, parts with the less cured bed or the whole will not stick.

[lesthegringo]

Bottom exposure time is 20 seconds, subsequent layer is 2.5 seconds, so well within the 5 to 8 time recommended 

 

I just realised that i miswrote  - what was written as 'exposure time x 2 (initial layer plus subsequent layers) and exposure time' should have been 'exposure time x 2 (initial layer plus subsequent layers) and exposure level' - sorry for the confusion

 

Cheers

 

Les

Edited May 9, 2021 by lesthegringo

[lesthegringo]

Hi all, a quick update on this - AnyCubic sent me some requests about measuring the build plate, and as a result of it they are sending me a replacement, so good support from them on this. Not sure how long it will take to get here, but nonetheless nice to see prompt customer service that gives you confidence in the company

 

Cheers

 

Les

[Anthony Kesterton]

Hi Les

 

A suggestion for your IPA problem - I am also starting out on 3D printing but started with water washable resin.  No IPA required, but the cost is a little higher. AnyCubic sell this as part of their resin products.

 

anthony

[lesthegringo]

Thanks, definitely an option I will look at. In terms of finished product did you notice any difference between the water washable and standard resins? I'm going to assume non-structural parts.

 

As it happens I have been told I am moving to Qatar in August, so alcohol based products may be even more difficult to get so knowing that the water washable version is available takes on more importance!

 

Les 

Edited May 20, 2021 by lesthegringo

[lesthegringo]

Guys, received a good build plate from AnyCubic, and it is a complete build plate, so that is fantastic support from them. I have checked the flatness and there is a marked difference between the original and the new one, so hopefully  this helps. I will try and use 22 grit wet or dry on a flat surface to try and improve the original as a back up

 

I have been using the old build plate to print parts using the ends where the distortion is less, and I have to say the definition, finish and quality is truly incredible. You have to play with details to get things looking right, as the details can be so fine that you have to exaggerate them, and there is also quite a game with supports with respect to positioning and size, plus the orientation and also  design features to help with warping. Nonetheless I am very happy with it and the scope is really limited to my imagination. My A10-C sim cockpit now has a full suite of correctly shaped knobs, complete with knurled finish where appropriate, and the texture finish has to be seen to be believed!

 

I can very much recommend the Mono X!

Les  

[Anthony Kesterton]

Apologies Les - I missed your question. I am only using water- washable resin so can’t comment on the differences. 

[bootneck]

On 20/05/2021 at 13:46, lesthegringo said:

...........In terms of finished product did you notice any difference between the water washable and standard resins? I'm going to assume non-structural parts.

As it happens I have been told I am moving to Qatar in August, so alcohol based products may be even more difficult to get so knowing that the water washable version is available takes on more importance!

Hi Les,

I haven't noticed any significant difference in finish between the standard and plant based resins,  you shouldn't have any issues with the water washable prints.

I have recently printed this with the plant based resin on my Anycubic Photon.   Note, I haven't cleaned up the support stubs yet.

 

 

 

After printing,  I wash the model in warm soapy water and then rinse in warm clean water.  I don't recommend cold water as I've heard that it causes any uncured resin to react on the model.

 

My wash system consists of two mug sized sealable containers, the type with the clip on lid.  One has the soapy water and the other has clear water.  I place the printed model, including supports, into the soapy container, clip down the lid and then oscillate the container in a swirling motion to get a good wash.  I don't shake the mug vigorously as this might snap off any protrusions, such as the little spotlight on the roof of the truck.

 

cheers,
Mike

[lesthegringo]

Thanks guys for the feedback - and nice little model!

 

Once thing I have concluded is that the black AnyCubic basic resin is actually quite translucent, and is definitely a bit more touchy than the Elegoo ABS-Like grey resin I have also been trialling. I've managed to make some lovely buttons and knobs for my A-10C flight sim cockpit including some beautifully rendered knurled knobs, plus some really nice bits for my Ferrari 312T4 driving sim dash and a steering wheel boss with a nice Ferrari emblem. The Elegoo stuff is a lot easier to get good prints with, however cleanup with local cellulose type thinners is less than optimal due to the strong smell and rather aggressive nature of the thinners

 

Cheers

 

Les