Schools Class steam locomotive

[rob Lyttle]

Work proceeds in small bursts here, but my attention was drawn to the front..... undercarriage ⁉️🤠

Ah, here's the term - leading bogie 👍

It is in need of the same treatment for free running. 

 

 

Running as sweet as a nut now. 

The attachment up under the chassis looks dubious and I think it may need revision later. 

Back on the main business, I've been covering the main link components with my sticky back Ali foil tape to see if it's viable in this situation. 

It's this stuff that builders and plumbers use for insulation panels etc, 

 

Strip cut wide enough to do the face and the top and bottom of the link. 

It can be trimmed away from the bearing surfaces and worked into the flange shape on face with a cocktail stick. 

So by the time the chassis in its current state is set on the rails with the leading bogie sitting in place, it all starts to look the part! To my eye anyway.... 🤠

 

[PeterB]

Looking good so far - I usually paint the wheels, frames etc before fitting together as it is easier to get in, but I guess you will manage. Getting a bit rusty so may not be entirely correct but FYI the bits you have covered with foil are the connecting rods, coupling rods, valve gear, slide bar and crosshead - that's the bit that connects to the piston in the cylinder and goes backwards and forwards on the slide bars, that motion being transferred to the connecting rod which turns one set of wheels, the others being linked by the coupling rod  - the whole set up is sometimes known as the motion in fact. I think this has the relatively simple Stephenson valve gear rather than the more complex Walshaerts gear on Tim's Evening Star which has a couple of eccentrics, but there were quite a few design variations so I may be wrong. Incidentally, unlike models the bogies on locos and coaches were often not actually attached to the body but rode on a bearing with restraining bits to stop them moving about, and were held in place by the weight of the loco/coach pressing down on them, and so when you see pictures of a train crash you will often see loose bogies lying around.

 

Sorry, I seem to be in lecturing mode - must stop doing that.

 

Pete

Edited May 6, 2021 by PeterB

[rob Lyttle]

While I was in the axle makeover frame of mind I had a look at the tender arrangements, and after some consideration and sorting out the parts I concluded that the plastic is OK. 

But what it really needs is some mass to hold it down. It is just an empty shell without even a floor. 

Well, it's got a floor now. 

And a bundle of heavy guage solder wire, mangled until it fits without rattling around in the space. 

The floor sits up on the ledges above the chassis sides and is clear of the wheels when they are fitted. 

That feels much better in the hand, more railway style! I shall glue that up after I tidy the wheels' flanges etc and call the tender sorted structure-wise

Now all I need is a locomotive to hitch it to. 👍

[TimJ]

That's coming along well. Adding ballast and a floor to the tender is a good idea. 

[Pete in Lincs]

On 5/7/2021 at 12:23 AM, PeterB said:

Sorry, I seem to be in lecturing mode - must stop doing that

Spread the knowledge, it doesn't hurt. Someone will find it useful.

I can bore for hours on the subject of WW2 Aircraft!

[ian fish]

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/?s=schools&post_type=product&title=1&excerpt=1&content=1&categories=1&attributes=1&tags=0&sku=1&orderby=date-DESC&ixwps=1

 

this might be of interest?

 

 

[rob Lyttle]

Just a quick update on the conjuring of tiny, flash-ridden, ancient parts.... 🧐

The final links, the eccentric rods and expansion links as they are referred to, and the associated pins are a bit of a trial. I'm reverting to my own stretched sprue system and there could be a little bit of melting with the soldering iron before the job is done. It's a method often used with old Heller kits and similar, it's old-school but often does the trick. 

The other "eccentric rod" is included in the picture to illustrate the standard of parts, and that is after the flash is trimmed. 

Also present is the front bogie with its new mounting pin. This is attached to drilled plates fixed between the original assembly pins top and bottom and at the moment it is just a push fit into the chassis. 

The after market items are interesting to look at, but no...... For that kind of money I'd want something else. 😎

[rob Lyttle]

The eccentric assembly has been sorted and the 2nd one is done. The soldering iron was indeed employed. This is the 3 part mechanism from behind... 

.... and the front face... 

 

The eccentric pin is a nice tight fit into the wheel and so far it's happy to sit in position in a firm but adjustable way. 

The whole thing doesn't really bear comparison with photos of the real locomotive, and it's quite a simplified version of what appears to be going on. But it works! 

And that was my main point of focus. 

Starboard side to do and I have some rotation on the main axle-to-wheel joints, so the 90° offset should be doable plus alignment of the wheels for the connecting rod ends. 

 

You'll have to excuse me but if I get the other side done and everything turns, I will be pushing it back and forth on my little bit of track saying "choo-choo" ‼️🤠

[rob Lyttle]

😎******** "CHOO-CHOO" ********😎‼️

 

We have a runner 👍

I've got another bunch of solder bent up and in the boiler, and it's helpful. 

 

It just feels so much better with some mass, the same as the tender. 

I've trimmed the handrails off the boiler sides after drilling holes at the attachment points and something new will have to be made as the replacement, whether plastic or brass wire or something. 

But once the cab is built on I can get some paint sorted out. 

That feels like progress 👍

[Ray S]

This is coming along very well indeed. It was good work on the connecting rods/running gear. I still need to pluck up courage to start my 'Biggin Hill' loco. I had some guidance from BM (nimrod54) as to where to get aftermarket (especially the handrails and name plate) but it is so confusing to one such as me!

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Ray

[rob Lyttle]

11 hours ago, Ray S said:

where to get aftermarket (especially the handrails and name plate) but it is so confusing to one such as me!

I'm not good at sorting out extras, for a couple of reasons I suppose. For one, I'm hopeless at online shopping - I ordered a book on the amazon a good while ago and ended up receiving 3 copies on consecutive days. I'd gone back a couple of times when ordering just to make sure I'd done it OK. 😜

Any way it was still good value and a great book ‼️

The other thing is the expense when you end up spending twice as much as the original kit for addons. 

The Biggen Hill would be of a similar age and type of model as this one and I'd say if you are in the right frame of mind for a bit of tinkering with ancient styrene, then go for it. It's kind of rewarding to pit your modelling wits and achieve some kind of results, against the odds so to speak. 😊

But if you love effortlessly

assembling the latest Tamiya whizz-kits then this stuff will do your head. 😎

I'd recommend adding weight, not that I know anything about the subject area. It just feels much better. All railway technology is based on sheer size and weight and this little engine should definitely feel more like a Hornby item in the hand, not just an empty plastic shell. 

 

There's plenty of time left on this Group Build....... Go on! 👍

[PeterB]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:14 PM, rob Lyttle said:

The other thing is the expense when you end up spending twice as much as the original kit for addons. 

 

True enough, particularly if it is a "one off". I bought a stock of handrail knobs and wire many years back when it was still quite cheap, but these days it is getting a bit expensive - particularly if you go for the "ex Hornby" stuff being sold on e-Bay by what I would call dismantlers, but then again if you only want enough for the odd loco maybe it is not too bad. £1.10 plus £2.50 postage for one tender handrail with either 2 or 3 knobs does seem rather steep to me.

 

It's a few years since I bought any railway bits and it looks like some of the people I dealt with no longer trade - this is a local(ish) chap I have used just to give you an idea of the potential cost. The Romford handrail knobs are the easiest to get I guess and his handrail wire is a decent price - comes in packs of several straight lengths about 10" or a foot long.

https://www.247developments.co.uk/loco_detailing.html

 

Pete

Edited May 16, 2021 by PeterB

[rob Lyttle]

Work proceeds but slowly, as time permits, with the "Cheltenham". 

I've mixed up some sort of green so I can at least get something on the bare plastic. 

And before I can get those smoke deflection plates on, I need a solution for the handrails. 

I have no aftermarket solutions but I picked up some 6mm brass wire. My 4mm seems a little light and too bendy for the job. 

Having drilled the boiler at the positions given by the moulded rails before removing, I can now fit little hairpins of 2mm wire that has been bent and formed around the 6mm wire to make loops. 

I've got some of these done as a trial run and the length of handrail fitted through the loops to see if I'm anywhere near to a solution. 

 

During previous chat about handrails and the heating of wires - I'd guess this pertaining to steel wire- there was mention of the bend at the front. 

It's difficult to get a good view of the front ends of the handrails behind the deflation plates, but what should I be trying to achieve here?? 

Should the end of the wire be bent at 90° and poked into the frontmost hole instead of a hairpin wire?? 

Or does the rail come right to the front of the boiler, and then bend in some way? 

I can't make out anything protruding in front of the deflectors or boiler door. 

Not that it's going to be very obvious once the plates are on but it would be nice to do the right thing! 

👍

[PeterB]

AFAIK the smokebox door had a short handrail across it - this may help - it is just below the silver painted top door hinge and painted black.

This is Repton as preserved in what looks like possibly Maunsell light olive though it may be yet another attempt at Malachite, and the King Arthur style chimney - note the wheels are also green, and it has LNER style white/black.white lining and a red oval cast plate with the number on the side of the cab (bit like the GWR). I think what @Mjwomackwas getting at when he mentioned the curve at the front was the case on some locos where the handrail ran down the side of the boiler, continued round the top of the smokebox above the door and back down the other side of the boiler. Maybe it did on some Schools but as you can see not on Repton as it is now nor on at least one other I have a photo of, but as I said previously I an no expert on SR locos. There are some ex Hornby handrails of that type on e-Bay for LNER Hunt/Shire and Footballer/Sandringham locos and I can see also that the GWR Castle and King had the same arrangement, but I suggest you Google Schools class and see if any of them had it. I don't think they did so you are probably lucky in that respect! Incidentally the SR was a bit different from most other rail companies in that it did not use lamps for the "head/reporting  code", at least during daylight, preferring instead the white discs you can see at the front. The positioning was a bit like naval semaphore signalling in that it could let a signalman or whatever identify what sort of train it was from a distance - slow/fast/express - goods or passenger etc. Repton has 6 "lamp brackets" three above the buffer beam, one either side of the smokebox door and one at the top whereas BR and the other companies just seem to have had 3 above the buffers and one right at the top and only normally used 2 at any one time though I could be wrong about that.

 

This is one of the various Hornby releases.

It is in the early Malachite with the simplified yellow boiler bands but the cab and tender are still lined in black/white. The cab number plate is replaced with a "stencil" in yellow, the smoke deflectors are now green not black and are lined round the edges, and again a simple horizontal handrail on the smokebox door rather that curving round over the top. This is how my "Lemaitre Chimney" Bullied updated version is meant to be fininshed (and yours too I guess) though this has the older chimney! Finally, this is another Hornby one and is what I was intended to do with my second one complete with snifting valves (brass things either side and behind the chimney). I suspect this is how Repton is finished in the first pic (lacking snifters these days), but Hornby have missed out the cab number plate and simplified the lining as ever!

 

I downloaded these and a number of other pics when I started building my pair - hope they are helpful. 

 

Incidentally your DIY handrails look fine if perhaps a little thick. AFAIK as on my earlier pic of the half built ones the rail should end sticking out a little in front of the final "knob" which should be around 3mm from the end of the boiler/smokebox moulding before you add the door - this link may help - initially they did not have deflector plates.

https://flic.kr/p/2kYVU7d

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited May 16, 2021 by PeterB

[Mjwomack]

9 hours ago, PeterB said:

getting at when he mentioned the curve at the front was the case on some locos where the handrail ran down the side of the boiler, continued round the top of the smokebox above the door and back down the other side of the boiler.

That's the one, though I'd completely forgotten that Schools had the elegant smoke deflectors, I hadn't realised that there was no handle over the top of the smoke box door; suddenly life seems easier!!

 

[PeterB]

1 hour ago, Mjwomack said:

That's the one, though I'd completely forgotten that Schools had the elegant smoke deflectors, I hadn't realised that there was no handle over the top of the smoke box door; suddenly life seems easier!!

 

The first few did not initially have smoke deflectors apparently. The "King Arthur" type chimney has a small "lip" at the front - I was just thinking it probably had a fancy name when "capuchon" popped into my head, and sure enough that it is what it was called - isn't memory strange! It was a sort of windshield and the idea was it deflected enough of the slipstream to allow the smoke from the chimney to rise more vertically and clear the cab. However it seems it was not effective enough so deflectors were added. I have never really understood how they work but I presume they create some sort of updraft and it lifts the smoke.

 

Pete

[Graham Boak]

That's an interesting question.  I don't know, but I suspect that the end corner creates a vortex, like the tip vortex on a wing, which rolls outboard so that there is an updraught by the boiler and a downdraught further outboard.  I recall going on a tourist trip out of Lerwick (to see some birds and seals) where from leaving the harbour we were followed by a Skua, sitting comfortably just above and outboard.  When a crew member offered him biscuit he had to flap much harder to stay airborne by the stern, then he returned to cruise gently by the stern but further outboard.  I presume he was riding the vortex coming off the corner of the small cabin, but in this case the vortex was rolling inboard.  This was on a small ex-fishing boat manned by two ex-fishermen - no glass bottomed flash tourist cruiser but probably more fun at less expense.  We wondered why they stopped do do some fishing, until they stopped later on by the fish factory and the Seals came out to eat.

 

There now, and you thought you were talking about model railways!

[PeterB]

Thanks Graham,

 

I know the designers were not over fond of Deflector Plates as they tended to hinder the view from the cab a bit, but not as much as the smoke could. Gresley tried to get away without them on the first 2 of his big P2 locos, and various combinations of small plates were tried alongside the chimney as I recall. In the end he fitted the steamlined wedge type front as on his A4, which is a bit easier to understand as it obviously pushed the air up whilst at the same time reduced drag.

 

Sorry Rob - I will let you get on with your thread now. Incidentally your green looks good to me - wish I could remember how I mixed mine years ago! Watching this has made me feel like finishing my 2 off, and maybe the West Country as well - at least 2 of them will have ready mixed paint. Oh, and by the way, lamp irons are easy to make from cut down "Bambi" staples (Rexel No 25).

 

Pete

Edited May 17, 2021 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Now look what you have gone and made me do!😁

First coat of Maunsell light olive on - I won't bother entering it in the GB as is is probably more than 25% done already - the other one certainly is. I will potter away at this in between "official" builds and I have dug out all the bits I need - plates will be for "902 - Wellington" or "919 Harrow", whichever had to old chimney and I hope that my ancient PC Pressfix lining works still - looks like it might need a little help but it is ruddy expensive to get these days. On the subject of cost I found a couple of bags of Romford handrail knobs I must have bought in the 1980's - £1.57 for 12 then - £6.00 for 20 now!

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

Later,

Just checked - this will be Wellington and the Malachite one will be Harrow.

Edited May 18, 2021 by PeterB

[Pete in Lincs]

Handrail knobs. Would split pins do the job? I've used them for a similar purpose before now.

An interesting thread, BTW.

[PeterB]

Hi Pete,

 

They would have to be very small split pins but I don't see why not - in fact I seem to recall some locos I bought using exactly that! Obviously brass knobs are better but the ones Rob has made out of wire look fine to me, though I suspect he has missed out a decimal point in front of his wire sizes - commercial handrail wire seems to be about 0.46mm diameter and the knobs about 0.5mm in terms of the "hole" though I suspect you can get other sizes - however it is mostly the length of the "stanshion" or whatever you want to call it, ie how far it sticks out, and also the length of the shank that goes into the model that I think Romford quote on their lists when they say "long" and "short". The ones I currently use leave the handrail wire no more than 1.5mm from the boiler etc and are only 3mm long including the shank as best I can measure.

And yes, I was wrong - only £1.56 for 12! As I get older it becomes increasingly difficult to thread them on the ruddy wire. 40 years ago you could pick them up at any half way decent LMS that sold trains, but these days it seems to be mainly a few mail order suppliers. Ditto lamps, couplings, vac and steam pipes, ETC cables for diesels and electrics, etc - all the little bits that make it look more real but are a pain to stock and have a low margin I guess. The old Frizinghall Model Railway shop was just down the road from my Grammar School and had a 5 or 6 ft wide section on the front of the counter divided into little boxes where they displayed the full range of PC Pressfix and Methfix "transfers", and all the other fittings such as the above. I have not seen the like for many a year and I suspect I never will again.

 

 

Pete

Edited May 18, 2021 by PeterB

[Pete in Lincs]

1 hour ago, PeterB said:

and I suspect I never will again.

A sad thing in this prepackaged, bar coded world.

BTW, earlier this evening I seem to have acquired an Airfix turntable from ebay. I'm still not quite sure why

[rob Lyttle]

On 18/05/2021 at 21:39, PeterB said:

the ones Rob has made out of wire look fine to me, though I suspect he has missed out a decimal point in front of his wire sizes -

You're right of course! 🤪 A 6mm dia wire would be a fairly hefty piece of metal to be meddling with. 

Glad to see one of your Schools back on the bench PeterB. Keep us updated with progress even if you don't do a build thread for it, or them. 

Progress is slow at the moment I'm afraid and only an attempt to copy the arched pipe item in brass to report. I think it is a viable replacement. 

There's a good model shop in Eastleigh that does a fair bit of railway stuff and another lms that is a rail specialist..... I really ought to take a look, pay more attention. 

But I don't suppose model shops can survive on bits and bobs any more than hardware stores can. 

[PeterB]

Hi Rob,

 

Sorry if you mentioned it earlier but which brass pipe is that? The kit should have the one that goes immediately in front of the cab, together with the ones either side of the boiler just behind the smokebox, though I have yet to decide if they are in fact copper rather than brass, Other than that the only ones I am aware of are what I presume are drains in front of the cab steps, and the copper drains under the cylinders which are used to blow out any water condensing inside the cylinders before starting to move I believe - apparently if it builds up it can cause major problems and even damage the cylinders.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[rob Lyttle]

It's part 20, described as the whistle and steam pipe, just in front of the cab. I thought I'd give it a go to see if the result is any better than the plastic part. 

The other thing I'm wondering about is the raised line detailing on the cab sides and the tender. Has that been done to aid painting? It's not coming across like this in the photo ref's I'm seeing.