Non specular Sea Blue Acrylic paint choices

[825]

Does anybody have a suggestion for war time US Sea Blue in acrylic? I have Xtracrylix Gloss Sea Blue but I believe it's post war FS15042, which isn't quite the same colour as war time non specular Sea Blue. Any Humbrol equivalents or easily available acrylic wouldn't be OK, taking into account current lock down restrictions. Thanks. 

[72modeler]

See if any of these will work:

Tamiya XF-17

Gunze H35

Polly-S  PCA803

Lifecolor UA044

Vallejo 71295

 

Mike

 

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Tamiya XF-17

way too bottle green.

Don't know about the others.   US NAvy Sea blues are complex

 

specifically Non specular Sea Blue is ANA607, and was used with Semi Gloss Sea Blue ANA606,  these were replaced by ANA623 Gloss Sea Blue. They are all similar, but not the same....

I have the Monogram US NAvy paint guide,  The colors are a blue-purple hued dark grey really. 

 

Sorry, I can't give Acrylic brand matches, 

 

I think mixes are the way to go, I have been working on Tamiya mixes.  I found that a 1:1 mix of XF-17 Blue and X-16 gloss purple made a reasonable match by eye for ANA623, but this was with older 23ml jars. ANA606 and ANA607 I didn't get a simple mix for.

 

though I can tell you the paints in this

 

DO NOT match the chips in the book!  They also dont list all the colors, they haven't a clue really....

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.

[Tail-Dragon]

Here's a mix of Tamiya acrylics that I found on Hyperscale - I haven't tried it myself, so be warned ...

 

NON-SPEC. SEA BLUE (also Gloss Sea Blue with gloss coat):- XF17:5 (Sea blue) + XF8:3 (Flat blue)+ XF2:2 (Flat white)

... or ...

XF17 sea blue + 10% XF19 sky grey + 5% XF2 flat white

 

Good luck!

Edited May 3, 2021 by Tail-Dragon
more details

[Scott Hemsley]

Troy ...

 

From my experience with AK, you can't judge the final colour just by opening the jar.  If that's not enough, they always seem to dry dark if brushed.

 

I deal mainly with the RAF colours, but just to give a 'fer instance' ... upon opening their Ocean Grey, for all intensive purposes, looked like Dk. Slate Grey until I sprayed it on a paint mule.  To my eye, when it dried, it was one of the best Ocean Grey's I'd run across in all the years I've spent in this hobby - including the old Humbrol Authentics sets.  The point I'm trying to make is before making a definitive decision with AK, try spraying it first.

 

Sorry for posting off topic, but I felt some would like to know what I've found.

 

Scott

Edited May 3, 2021 by Scott Hemsley

[Troy Smith]

14 minutes ago, Scott Hemsley said:

From my experience with AK, you can't judge the final colour just by opening the jar.  If that's not enough, they always seem to dry dark if brushed.

 

I did brush them out.  It's not about them being too dark, but the wrong color.  the AK Sea Blues are deep greeny blues, not the dark smoky grey blue of the paint chips.   I'd need to do some pics, which I can't do right now, but it's not a subtle difference, but seriously different color.

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

way too bottle green.

Don't know about the others.   US NAvy Sea blues are complex

Tell me about it, Troy! I'm an enamel and lacquer man myself, and pretty much use hand mixes to color chips, and/or enamel pre-mixed colors that are regarded as being accurate by people like Nick Millman, Dana Bell, and others. I was just listing the acrylics I  knew were out there. Like many, until recently I had no idea that the formula for sea blue had been changed so much, but it was apparent from looking at good color period photos that something was up! 

Mike

 

If I can ever get Colourcoats paints from the US distributor, the WW2 and postwar USN colors are on my wish list!

(If I send you the money, would you be amenable to putting the tins in a big bottle and floating them with a note to me via the Atlantic Current? I'm thinking that would be just as fast as  trying to find/purchase them on this side of the pond!)  

 

[VG 33]

Hello

 

I used Xtracrylics XA1121 FS15042 and here are the results

 

2014 Special Hobby 1/72 DH Vampire FB5

 

 

2014 Special Hobby 1/72 Bell AH-1G

 

 

2020 Sword Grumman 1/72 TBM-3W

 

 

Patrick

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, VG 33 said:

 

I used Xtracrylics XA1121 FS15042

This is the post war Color, which is different to ANA623, was used from 1944 to around 1947, which was changed as it was prone to fading. See the link I posted above for details.

Many places list FS15042 and ANA623 as the same. They are not. 

HTH

[825]

Thanks everyone, this is becoming a really illuminating thread, even though there's not an answer for me as yet. I brush paint and very much prefer acrylics for their lack of smell and ease of cleaning. I've used Xtracrylix Gloss Sea Blue a number of times and it's excellent on post war types but I know ANA623 is different but don't really have a clear picture in my head if what it looks like. And what would be a useful pot of paint to use. I'd prefer not to mix as getting consistency between mixes is really challenging. I use multiple thin coats brushed on so the ability to just open a pot, give it a stir, dip the brush in and start painting is where I'd like to be. 

[PhantomBigStu]

Vallejo do a nice matt sea blue in their model color range 

 

[Greenshirt]

I used the following Tamiya mix:

XF-17:6

XF-8:6

XF-53:1

on my ArmaHobby FM-2 -- pic here:

 

Tim

[alt-92]

18 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

though I can tell you the paints in [AK Air Series 2230]

 

DO NOT match the chips in the book!  They also dont list all the colors, they haven't a clue really....

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

No Air series here, but AK RC. They're a bit better, to be honest. 

AK RC 257 works for me as 607 NS Sea Blue. 

Gunze H55 for ANA 623 does the trick as well as AK RC 258.

 

 

[72modeler]

On 5/3/2021 at 10:54 AM, Troy Smith said:

way too bottle green.

Don't know about the others.   US NAvy Sea blues are complex

Tell me about it, Troy! I'm an enamel and lacquer man myself, and pretty much use hand mixes to color chips, and/or enamel pre-mixed colors that are regarded as being accurate by people like Nick Millman, Dana Bell, and others. I was just listing the acrylics I  knew were out there. Like many, until recently I had no idea that the formula for sea blue had been changed so much, but it was apparent from looking at good color period photos that something was up! 

Mike

 

If I can ever get Colourcoats paints from the US distributor, the WW2 and postwar USN colors are on my wish list!

(If I send you the money, would you be amenable to putting the tins in a big bottle and floating them with a note to me via the Atlantic Current? I'm thinking that would be just as fast as  trying to find/purchase them on this side of the pond!)  

 

BTW, I bought that AK color chip/camouflage colors book and it was  a rather big disappointment, as the chips didn't match those in the reference books I had that were acknowledged to have accurate colors; the biggest letdown was  in  the poor coverage of the Soviet colors, which was the main reason behind my purchasing the book.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by 72modeler
corrected text

[Fukuryu]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

the poor coverage of the Japanese, German, and Soviet colors, which was the main reason behind my purchasing the book.

 

 

@72modeler, IIRC there is no coverage at all of Japanese colours; Nick Millman's involvement was with British and US colours, I think.

[Rolls-Royce]

56 minutes ago, Fukuryu said:

 

@72modeler, IIRC there is no coverage at all of Japanese colours; Nick Millman's involvement was with British and US colours, I think.

In an email discussion I had with him about Zero colors months ago, he mentioned that AK did not seem to follow the reference samples he provided them, so, yep, he contributed to them for Japanese colors as well.

[72modeler]

55 minutes ago, Fukuryu said:

there is no coverage at all of Japanese colours

My mistake! I have corrected my post- I have been trying to erase the memory of spending that amount of money on the reference, and I guess I suppressed a little too much! Thanks for the correction- I have amended my post for accuracy. 

 In  the interest of fair play, the AK reference would be a good one or someone who had very few/none of the  original color reference books, almost all of which are either out of print or too expensive on auction or secondhand book sites.

Mike

[Fukuryu]

1 minute ago, Rolls-Royce said:

In an email discussion I had with him about Zero colors months ago, he mentioned that AK did not seem to follow the reference samples he provided them, so, yep, he contributed to them for Japanese colors as well.

His contribution was for the two sets of Japanese colours in the AIR water-based acrylics series that I think was also used for the Real Color series, and yes, he said that they should be a bit lighter. There are no Japanese colours in the Real Colours or WW2 Aircrafts that 72modeler mentioned.

[Fukuryu]

7 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I have been trying to erase the memory of spending that amount of money on the reference,

 

Well, nothing can be worse than the Pilawskii book... Hope you don't have it too!

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, Fukuryu said:

Hope you don't have it too!

😥

Mike

 

You know, the Thorpe IJA/IJN colors and markings books were lots older than the  Pilaskii book, but at least Thorpe got things mostly right, which is actually pretty amazing, considering how little  original reference material was available to him back then. (Know anybody who wants my copy of the Pilawaskii reference?) 

 

Hope you and yours are weathering this d---- pandemic safely. 😷 (I'm thinking we airbrushers were ahead of the curve, as I'm betting almost all of us wear masks when we spray; I have an exhaust fan above my workbench.)

Edited May 4, 2021 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[Chuck1945]

4 hours ago, 72modeler said:

...

 

BTW, I bought that AK color chip/camouflage colors book and it was  a rather big disappointment, as the chips didn't match those in the reference books I had that were acknowledged to have accurate colors; the biggest letdown was  in  the poor coverage of the Soviet colors, which was the main reason behind my purchasing the book.

 

Me too.😳 

[Fukuryu]

13 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

😥

 

So sorry for you, Mike... (I have it too, but in my defense it was a gift)

 

14 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

You know, the Thorpe IJA/IJN colors and markings books were lots older than the  Pilaskii book, but at least Thorpe got things mostly right, which is actually pretty amazing, considering how little  original reference material was available to him back then. (Know anybody who wants my copy of the Pilaskii reference?) 

 

Thorpe had a method, clear goals and followed the evidence he had at hand, and the testament to the seriousness of his research is how much of what he wrote about has been validated by relatively recent research (I am quoting Nick Millman on this).

 

Pilawskii, on the other hand... is a great illustrator, with a vivid imagination.

 

18 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Hope you and yours are weathering this d---- pandemic safely. 😷 (I'm thinking we airbrushers were ahead of the curve, as I'm betting almost all of us wear masks when we spray; I have an exhaust fan above my workbench.)

 

Too late for me and my wife... In the last days of March we fell for the dreaded virus (we don't know how), just 10 days after my first dose vaccination and on the very same day she should have had hers. We're fine now.

[Scott Hemsley]

Quote

 

I did brush them out.  It's not about them being too dark, but the wrong color.  

Troy.  You specified that you brushed them out & that's where I tried to point out that you might have gone wrong with those paints.  I've found AK paints not only brush much darker than expected,, but they can look totally 'off' in the jar.  To illustrate that, I did point out in  my post, how their RAF Ocean Grey appeared to be Dk. Slate Grey (or as my grandson  describes it - 'sea weed green') in the jar. - at least to these eyes.  I then went on to state that when sprayed, the Ocean Grey dried as you would expect Ocean Grey to appear.  

 

To make a fair evaluation, did you spray AK's Non-specular Sea Blue just in the off-chance that how it appears in the jar is not how it dries? 

 

However, as the OP prefers to brush paint, I would suggest that AK Real Colours would not be appropriate for them because IMO, they don't always brush well. in terms of the drying the expected colour  Still others who do use AK's Real Colours and spray, might benefit from my findings.

 

Scott

[Asmodai]

1 hour ago, Scott Hemsley said:

Troy.  You specified that you brushed them out & that's where I tried to point out that you might have gone wrong with those paints.  I've found AK paints not only brush much darker than expected,, but they can look totally 'off' in the jar.  To illustrate that, I did point out in  my post, how their RAF Ocean Grey appeared to be Dk. Slate Grey (or as my grandson  describes it - 'sea weed green') in the jar. - at least to these eyes.  I then went on to state that when sprayed, the Ocean Grey dried as you would expect Ocean Grey to appear.  

 

To make a fair evaluation, did you spray AK's Non-specular Sea Blue just in the off-chance that how it appears in the jar is not how it dries? 

 

However, as the OP prefers to brush paint, I would suggest that AK Real Colours would not be appropriate for them because IMO, they don't always brush well. in terms of the drying the expected colour  Still others who do use AK's Real Colours and spray, might benefit from my findings.

 

Scott

I would agree on brushing AK’s Real Colors. They spray well, and handle much like Tamiya paint. I used their US Army Helo Drab on a CH-47D kit. Sprayed on, the color was fine. Trying to do any later touch ups by brush was impossible, though - if you tried to brush it, the Helo Drab came out much darker than what had been sprayed prior. The sprayed color was an acceptable match, but brushing it was super dark and obvious compared to the spray finish. This could well be a quirk of their paint. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Asmodai