Hunters - underside colour

[aharris57]

Hi.  Newbie here, so my apologies in advance if this has been asked a thousand times before.

 

I'm just setting off on my first proper build and I've chosen the Italeri (Academy re-box?) Hunter F6 for the job.  It comes with a pretty good decal sheet and I've decided to go for the 1959 No. 56 squadron scheme, straight out of the box.  Looking at the painting instructions it calls for Flat Light Grey undersides and I have a pot of light aircraft grey for that (Mr Color lacquer).  The trouble is when I compare it to colour profiles in my reference book, Tim McLelland's "Hawker Hunter", and online sources, every RAF Hunter up to the mid-1960's seems to have undersides variously described as aluminium or high speed silver.  The Airfix 1:48 Hunter has a similar late 1950's scheme showing undersides to be painted with Humbrol 11, silver.

So, light aircraft grey or silver, what do you reckon?  If silver, will airbrushed Mr Color silver lacquer be too bright?  It is the equivalent of Humbrol 11 but they don't seem to do an aluminium which would be equivalent to Humbrol 56.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

Edited May 3, 2021 by aharris57
typos

[Hook]

1959? High Speed Silver. 

 

The Gunze color would be more appropiate dan Humbrol 56, which would be a tad on the dark side.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited May 3, 2021 by Hook

[stever219]

The correct colour for an RAF Hunter is High Speed Silver, an aluminium pigmented finish that gives a satinsheen.  Avoid Humbrol 11 and 56 like the plague for this.  The former is too bright and shiny (if it's a good pot) and the latter's to dull and dark.  If you want to stay with Humbrol 27001 Flat Aluminium Metal Metalcote is your weapon of choice with un-buffed 27002 as runner up  Other aluminium siilvers are avaialable; Halfords Nissan Silver spray can was once considered the weapon of choice for this finish (give it a coat of Halfords grey plastic primer first).

 

As an aside Light Aircraft Grey (Humbrol 166) was being introduced at the time that the Hunter was being withdrawn from front-line service, e.g. 8, 43, 54 and 208 Squadrons but could be seen on the type until final withdrawal from the TWU in the late 70s or early 80s.

 

Enjoy your Hunter, but be careful with the wing to fuselage joint as it can be "entertaining" getting everything lined up neatly.

[aharris57]

Cheers Steve and Andre!  Halfords rattle can is not an option for me as I'm in Oz.  I'm using Mr Color lacquers, just quoting the Humbrol numbers because people are likely to be familiar with them.  I'll have to work out what best represents High Speed Silver in the Mr Colour range, but if Mr Color = Gunze then maybe I'm OK with my silver.

 

Andy

Edited May 3, 2021 by aharris57
added info

[Graham T]

Xtracolour from Hannants supply RAF High Speed Silver.

[exdraken]

A RAF F.6 , especially 1959 should be in High Speed Silver undersides.

Take care regarding the demarcation line on the wing leading edge. If I remember correctly the LAG scheme have a slight wrap around camo, the HSS straight at the leading edge....

[aharris57]

Thanks Blabber Mouth.  I found this Hunter pic which seems to show HSS combines with leading edge wrap around plus the Airfix instructions show it (and Italeri ones too, not that I trust those much!).  I'll go with that - really more interested in getting some practice in than 100% accuracy, but I'm trying to get things right all the same.  So far I have spent far longer on the internet than painting plastic.  I guess research is all part of the fun .

 

Andy

[Rabbit Leader]

Andy, I can voucher for Tamiya AS-12 Airframe Silver as a good and easy use silver spray can. It costs about $12 Aussie and you will be glad you went that way. I usually decant it and thin it for Airbrush use, however it’s a good product and will behave itself straight out of the can. 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, aharris57 said:

Thanks Blabber Mouth.  I found this Hunter pic which seems to show HSS combines with leading edge wrap around plus the Airfix instructions show it (and Italeri ones too, not that I trust those much!).  I'll go with that - really more interested in getting some practice in than 100% accuracy, but I'm trying to get things right all the same.  So far I have spent far longer on the internet than painting plastic.  I guess research is all part of the fun .

 

Andy

 

That picture shows XF515 when she was flying in the warbird circuit as G-KAXF. She now resided in Holland and is painted as N-294.

IIRC the restoration was considered very good at the time, but I don't know if all colour and markings details were 100% accurate

[The wooksta V2.0]

I wouldn't go for Halfords Nissan Silver. I found some years back that it was too grainy, certainly for 72nd. I changed to their generic Aluminium which is better. 

[Giorgio N]

There are many ways to reproduce this colour, being in the end an aluminum/silver paint means that even if you don't have access to a specific paint brand you can still have a good reproduction by using a suitable aluminum/silver paint followed by a semigloss coat to tone down the shinyness.

For example, my latest build of a British type in silver was of a Vampire (Italian markings but the finish is the same). I used Vallejo Model Air Aluminum overall as it was a paint I had and was light enough. The resulting model however was too shiny for this kind of finish

 

 

To sort I applied a semigloss coat, made by mixing flat and gloss varnishes around 50/50 (Vallejo again in this case but any may work)

 

 

The flatter the mix the duller the finish so changing the mix it's possible to reproduce the various aging stages of this finish. For a new aircraft I'd probably use less flat in the mix, for an older one I'd go for more.

Of course you have to check that whatever varnish you use is compatible with the underlying silver paint.

Since someone mentioned Tamiya AS-12, this IMHO may well be good enough straight from the can as it's not too shiny and, if sprayed carefully, can give a very smooth finish.

 

 

[aharris57]

Thanks @Giorgio N!  I can only dream of creating a finish as perfect as you've got on that Vampire.  It's lovely.  I do have semi-gloss and matt Mr Color varnishes so I'll try to follow your recommendations.  My guess is that my silver will be way too bright, so I'll give it semi-gloss, then decal, then either spray another semi-gloss or matt coat depending on how things appear.  It looks like it will be a matter of experimentation.

 

Also I hadn't spotted that pic of XF515 was a modern restoration.  I just hope they got it right.

 

Cheers, Andy.

Edited May 10, 2021 by aharris57
added info

[Giorgio N]

Andy, if you have an airbrush it will not be difficult to achieve the same kind of finish if not better Gunze's, if applied properly, can give finishes smoother than Vallejo's. Tamiya's AS12 can also be sprayed to a very smooth finish.

 

Regarding the process, it may be worth applying the decals before the semi-gloss coat. On a semigloss finish decals generally work well enough, but on a gloss one they work better

[aharris57]

@Giorgio N I do indeed have a new airbrush and compressor.  Just need to practice.  I think I had the paint too thick first time around.  I was really thinking about the camo colours on the top being matt and needing to apply semi-gloss to decal there.  Of course the Gunze silver will be nice and glossy so you're right, I should decal straight onto that.  Thanks again!

[Julien]

I find some of the Acrylic silvers while not shinny enough for NMF od well for High Speed Silver, I used MiG-Ammo Silver for my Meteor F.8 with satin varnish to seal over it.

 

[aharris57]

Nice looking Meteor @Julien.  That's about the level of shine I want to end up with.  Cheers.

[aharris57]

Hi all.  Slow progress is being made with the Hunter so I thought I would post here.  I eventually found some period photos showing the High Speed Silver to camo demarcation right along the leading edge so I went with that.

[aharris57]

I haven't sprayed clear coat yet to seal the decals.  I'll do the underside and stencils once I've coated the top ones to allow me to handle the model without damaging them.

[aharris57]

One thing that's annoying is that the decals are sitting on top of the model rather than sinking into panel lines, rivets and recessed details, as per this pic of the fin flash:

 

 

I did buy some Tamiya Mark Fix, which I tested out on the Indian roundels that came with the hit and spare rear fuselage option.  They just wrinkled and partly dissolved!  I did go sparingly and waited overnight to see if they flattened - no luck!  Perhaps the decal needs a really smooth high gloss coat to adhere to for the Mark Fix to work properly.

 

 

Based on that experience I've just used warm water.  I'll have to try Micro Sol and Micro Set another day!

[Graham Boak]

That's sad.  I have used Microsol/Microset and got much better results,  One hint for those is to gentleman's parts through areas of wrinkling or silvering and soak the transfer again.  It might be worth trying on your Indian Hunter.

[aharris57]

Thanks, it's not a disaster as they are spare parts and decals for another build option from the kit that I was just using as a trial run.  Glad I did!

[perdu]

I use Daco Strong for stressful decal setting, Micro Set and Sol are good for most needs but when you really have to get the decal over a hump Daco does it for me every time, as on this Merlin a while back.

 

 

The wingy Tiger has to form over a full 360º curve, it went on without a problem.

 

Dab of Daco, gentle nudge with the Daco brush to fold the edges in and leave the damned thing alone and let it wrinkle and shrink round the corners and bends.

 

Love that Hunter, v.sexy.

 

Must be the very prettiest ever fighter jet.

[Hook]

40 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

One hint for those is to gentleman's parts through areas of wrinkling or silvering

The Naught y Words Filter strikes again?

 

Great work on the Hunter!

 

[perdu]

10 minutes ago, Hook said:

The Naught y Words Filter strikes again?

Of course, had me pondering for a second or three. 

[Graham Boak]

A filter with no sense of grammar, to distinguish between nouns and verbs.

 

Actually, I really should have expected that, because last time this subject arose I referred to using a draughtsman's tool obtained from my father, called a p****er, to pierce the transfer, making small holes.  It didn't like that either, hence the avoiding action - hope it works!  You can always use anything pointed, such as a pin, or needle, or compass point