CedB Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Wow, what a catchup for me! So much I had to make notes as I went along… Thanks to Pete for stepping in for me on the Dbl-Es and apologies for the lack of involvement over the past few weeks. Daughter now married so I’m hoping to get ‘back to normal’ soon. Aren’t we all? Those internals, especially the belts and i/p, are something to behold hendie. Amazing work. Greeblies galore too! What a treat. Must get some of those step drills… Windows, windows, windows. Great stuff - you know I love the odd experiment! Pleased to see you eventually cracked it. i read that masking bit twice to make sure the technique sunk in (hopefully). Winches too - yum! That filter is the business too - great technique! Up to date now and I hope Chicago goes well 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Delighted to see you pushing through the transparency barrier Alan - not that there was ever any doubt of course. Excellent lateral thinking on marking out those frame outlines too - how I now picture you at the bench: On 08/08/2021 at 22:36, hendie said: Covid ravaged Chicago. - sounds like quite a disturbing version of the musical. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Delighted to see you pushing through the transparency barrier Alan - not that there was ever any doubt of course. Excellent lateral thinking on marking out those frame outlines too - how I now picture you at the bench: - sounds like quite a disturbing version of the musical. Looks more like one of my late night "au naturel " modelling sessions to me, although the chap is clearly not quites as good looking as me. Beautiful of Mars 👽 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 I think it looks more like one of the Engineers from 'Prometheus' writing a note for the Milkman. "Going into suspended animation, may be quite a while, but please leave two pints and a yoghurt anyway" 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 On 8/13/2021 at 4:08 PM, TheBaron said: how I now picture you at the bench: Aye Tony, constipation is a terrible thing. I've got to find something to do to help pass the time. Could that be Newton's little known contribution to the advancement of mankind.... adding perforations to toilet paper? Back from my travels on the road trip to Hell and back, it took me a day or so before I could face working on the WW, and even when I got to it, things went very slow. First job was to throw some primer on the cockpit area to see how bad the seams were. Surprisingly, they were not too bad at all and only needed a little gentle fettling. I used black primer as I never bothered to mask and spray the inside of the windscreen framing. this way, if anyone peeks inside, it will look like I did, maybe. Second coat and I think I'm going to call that acceptable. There is still a step on one side of the cockpit, but it's relatively neat and any attempt to improve it is most certainly not going to. By the time all the paint is on I am hoping it won't be too noticeable. Look what I found while ratching about in the WW goodies box. Why did nobody remind me to fit them before the windscreen went on? I did have a play at fitting them but it was impossible. I'll wait until the masking is off and with any luck I might be able to see the mounting holes I predrilled some time back. Or not. This is a sheet of railroad decals I bought some years ago, and every now and then I find they come in quite handy - and they're much cheaper than Archer resin decals. I used what I assume to be some kind of vent decal to replicate the Dzus Onna Spring fasteners that secure one of the panels on the tail pylon. Okay, they're not great, but they do take away from the monotony of the plain surface on the pylon, and they're not too obtrusive. Then came the really awkward job. I figured I needed something on the front end to take away from the overall blandness and opted to add the rivets to the framing of the windscreen. Being a bit silly I first tried to apply the rivets onto the black primer. Applying black resin rivets onto black primer is not very conducive to a) being able to align things properly, and b) actually being able to see the darn things in the first place. Out came the grey primer. Whether they will remain in place with all my rough handling remains to be seen, but it's worth a shot. I considered adding rivets across that large surface of the nose, but on the 1:1 they are hardly visible, so I'm running with what I have. I can always change my mind later. I think I may almost be ready for paint, though I am sure there must be a few more items I've forgotten about and will no doubt remember as soon as it's dripping wet with color. However, if things go according to plan, there may be color on this tomorrow. 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Welcome back to the relative normality of the bench. I'm liking the look of those rail road decals and rivets very much. Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Scratch building sans plans 👍 That's how I roll too, mostly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Looking good from here hendie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 8 hours ago, hendie said: adding perforations to toilet paper? Welcome back. The canopy framing looks the part now. Good luck adding the cyclics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 That windscreen has turned out very nicely indeed. As Pete says, good luck getting those cyclics in! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyDad Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Really looking forward to seeing paint being applied! SD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 'nough said Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 15, 2021 Author Share Posted August 15, 2021 Mail call 20 hours ago, RichieW said: Welcome back to the relative normality of the bench. I'm liking the look of those rail road decals and rivets very much. Richie So far so good with the rivets Richie. I'm quite pleased with how they've turned out, particularly the "dzus" fasteners 17 hours ago, thommo said: Scratch building sans plans 👍 That's how I roll too, mostly. Make it up as you go along - is there any other way? 12 hours ago, CedB said: Looking good from here hendie Ah, you must be sitting at the back of the room Ced. Good choice. 12 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Welcome back. The canopy framing looks the part now. Good luck adding the cyclics. 12 hours ago, Brandy said: That windscreen has turned out very nicely indeed. As Pete says, good luck getting those cyclics in! Ian Thanks Ian, Pete. I think I'm going to need more than luck, but I think it will be possible when the masking is off (mainly cos I haven't really tried it yet) 11 hours ago, SafetyDad said: Really looking forward to seeing paint being applied! SD Then look no further 13 minutes ago, giemme said: 'nough said Ciao Oh, there's always one isn't there? One of those jobs that needed done before spilling paint all over it was to check for last minute greeblies. One of those was the cabin step but at this point I haven't made it yet so I drilled the locating holes and left it at that. Another greeblie that had managed to hide away so far was the pitot tube. I had not realized before but when looking at my reference photos, there appears to have been at least 3 different configurations of pitot tube fitted on WW's. Luckily I had two shots of 28 Sqn that showed the type I needed to bodge together. Of course, it was the awkward one. Rummaging in the brass drawer I found a length of 0.8mm tube. The thing about tubes is that when you try to bend them, generally the inner wall collapses and you end up with a kink instead of a bend in the tube. To prevent this I threw some wire down inside the tubing before it was bent. The wire serves two purposes. Firstly, it helps minimize the tendency for the tubing to kink. Secondly, as it's a smaller diameter, it makes a great job of pretending to be the actual pitot head, especially when you use shiny stainless steel wire. First bend applied. There's also no need to glue the wire inside the tube as once the tubing is bent, it grabs the wire insert and prevents it from going anywhere. Of course, nothing is ever easy, and I found that the tube actually cracked a little on the 90 degree bend - no I didn't anneal it though I should have done. The fix was simple though - simply tin the bend with solder and clean off the excess. Here we have the pitot dry fitted just to check if I got it right or not. Close enough. I'm absolutely certain that something that fine sticking out of the side of the fuselage is going to get knocked off pronto, so into the greeblies box it went and will be fitted later. Almost ready for paint spilling. But first I needed to mask the cockpit area, which is always a tad awkward on helicopters. With remarkable forethought, I had vacformed some sliding windows from standard plasticard when I was doing the test pulls (sucks?). I used two of them and held them in place by threading a length of fine wire through window 1, through the cockpit, through window 2, and twisting the ends together to lock it, and the windows in place With that method, a small portion of the frame around the windows won't get colored in, but that should be easy touch ups later. Almost ready to fire the airbrush up when I discovered a problem. What shade of grey to use? DSG? Dark Grey? Dark Gull Grey? Some other shade? Thankfully Bill came to the rescue and confirmed DSG with dark green. Goody I thought. Off to the races I thought. Wait! Not quite so fast old hendie m'boy. Westland, we have a problem. Previously, my go to paint range was Testors Model Master, but last year they decided to pretty much stop producing 90% of their range which of course included the DSG. When I learned of their exiting from the model paint business, I started changing over to Mr Hobby, Mr Color, Mr Aqueous or whatever name they come up with next. I had already bought a DSG in the Aqueous range and it was excellent - really easy to use with their self leveling thinners and produced a great finish. Unfortunately, that bottle finished a while ago and I recently bought two more of the same DSG from the same Aqueous range, same code number H-75. Both clearly marked Dark Seagray. Something wasn't quite right. One of these is not like the others. On the left we have the original (now empty) DSG, and the two on the right are the new bottles. That's not even in the same ballpark is it? I painted a piece of scrap with the new DSG and managed to get a few dregs out of the bottom of the old jar - there in front of the upturned bottle, and you can see that the new DSG isn't any shade of grey at all. It's some offspring of green. I've seen a few posts with people reporting this issue, not just with this color number. It seems Mr Color Blind changed their formulation recently, and whatever they have done, they've really messed it up. Some folks have contacted them but Mr Color blind doesn't see any problem. Go figure. If this is a sign of things to come, I now need to switch from Mr Color to yet another brand of pigment supplier. Buggrit. Luckily, our resident hero, Bill, came to the rescue once again. I had some Humbrol enamels that I bought about 10 years ago and have rarely ever looked at them, but in that small stash, I could confirm with Bill, that I did indeed have the Humbrol equivalent of both DSG and Dark green. <Sigh of relief> Panic Over. Now back to the story. The other story, not the paint issues story. You wanted paint Giorgio? Well, you got it. How's this then?... a painted cabin door. We have gone from grey primer to grey paint. It's paint. Doesn't matter that it's just a different shade of paint than the primer. You weren't specific! You just asked for paint. Are you now satiated? I also did the undercarriage legs. Both grey at the mo' though I think one of them ands up being dark green I also sprayed the tail rotor gearbox with some vintage model master dark green and took this awful out of focus shot of it. At the same session, the winch was greened up. I used the model master paints on this mainly because I'm hoping there will be a difference between this green and the humbrol dark green that will adorn the fuselage. But that's not all folks. When the Humbrol DSG was in full swing, this fell in the way. Color, Giorgio, it's color. Port side and the rivets appear to survived intact (so far) The pseudo Dsuz fasteners have really turned out well. Enough variation to tell your eyes that something is there, but not obtrusive enough to keep your eyes focused on that spot. Once the tail rotor is on, and the dark green camouflage in place, I think that will look fine. The BMF has given a nice "separate panel" look to the pylon too. To finish off the day and before I head off to make some sausage rolls, after I make the sausage meat - I threw some primer on the wheels to see how they had turned out. When looking at them in bare printed form with no added color, it didn't look as though the treads were good enough, however with paint (primer) on, I think they have turned out just fine. Remember, those grid lines on the mat are at 1cm spacing. These wheels, iirc are about 12mm in diameter I also tested out the front wheels to see how the tread turned out. These wheels are about 9mm in diameter. Not too bad all said and done. I have to reprint the front wheels as I made a boo boo and forgot to add enough of a hub on the inside to allow for a piece of 1mm rod for the wheel mounting. When I do that, I may try to see if I can get the tread any deeper, though at this scale, that would work for me. Now, where was that minced beef and minced pork to make lorne sausage? Catch you all later 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Mmm nice. Good paint too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Bonza old bean... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Wonderful stuff, and it's not just Giorgio who gets a bit of a high on the first paint episide! Shame about that colour mis match on the paint. I've found those paints to be rather good to apply. Looks like there may be challenges going forward though. Terry 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 12 hours ago, hendie said: I'm hoping there will be a difference between this green and the humbrol dark green that will adorn the fuselage. I am hoping you remember that is Humbrol 163 NOT Humbrol 30 Dark Green which has blighted countless RAF models by masquerading as the Dark Green to match Dark Earth. I had another butcher's this morning, still nice. Very nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Rivets, brass greebling, paint controversy, fasteners, two types of primer, grey paint and wheels. Those last two fantastic updates could have come straight off an Ivor Cutler album! 12 hours ago, hendie said: Now, where was that minced beef and minced pork to make lorne sausage? You'll have had your tea? (And earned it). 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Hooray, we have paint going on. What a shame Mr Colour have done something weird, their paints are great to airbrush. Old fashioned Humbrol enamels to the rescue though, the smell of those awesome paints were part of childhood for so many of us! Those printed wheels look good to me, do the tyre treads need to be any deeper? I just refreshed my memory by looking at the first page of the thread again, you have taken basic, ancient old plastic to modern super kit standards! I bet the sausage rolls turn out great too! Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Wheels looking impressively good - and so does the main model, under its grey shades Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF67 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Lorne sausage or sausage rolls - which is it? Really shouldn’t use Lorne sausage for sausage rolls in my opinion! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Paint! Hoorah! Looking very nice indeed. As for the DSG, That Mr Hobby stuff is Colonial DSG spelt with an A. Not Imperial DSG spelt with an E. There's your problem. I've been quite happy just using cheap dark grey Primer for DSG before now. I used some Humbrol gloss last week. At least 20 years old and it came out quite smartly. Nice wheels and pitot, BTW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I have no idea which DSG is correct but it looks good to me anyway! (Although grey is always a better bet for Dark Sea Grey than green is!) As for the pitot tube, what a great place to put it to encourage pilots not to drink too much the night before and risk impaling themselves as they try to climb into the cockpit! Ian 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 3:39 PM, perdu said: Mmm nice. Good paint too. On 8/15/2021 at 3:55 PM, Head in the clouds. said: Bonza old bean... thanks Bill, Hitc On 8/16/2021 at 3:03 AM, Terry1954 said: Wonderful stuff, and it's not just Giorgio who gets a bit of a high on the first paint episide! Shame about that colour mis match on the paint. I've found those paints to be rather good to apply. Looks like there may be challenges going forward though. Terry I really like their paints and have been in the process of gradually switching over from MM/Testors, but if they can't correct something as basic as that (and they have been informed), then I think I shall have to look elsewhere. On 8/16/2021 at 3:51 AM, perdu said: I am hoping you remember that is Humbrol 163 NOT Humbrol 30 Dark Green which has blighted countless RAF models by masquerading as the Dark Green to match Dark Earth. I had another butcher's this morning, still nice. Very nice. Luckily, I had 163 in my paint rack Bill - thanks for the heads up On 8/16/2021 at 3:53 AM, TheBaron said: Rivets, brass greebling, paint controversy, fasteners, two types of primer, grey paint and wheels. Those last two fantastic updates could have come straight off an Ivor Cutler album! You'll have had your tea? (And earned it). Ah... old Ivor. Genius. On 8/16/2021 at 4:47 AM, RichieW said: Hooray, we have paint going on. What a shame Mr Colour have done something weird, their paints are great to airbrush. Old fashioned Humbrol enamels to the rescue though, the smell of those awesome paints were part of childhood for so many of us! Those printed wheels look good to me, do the tyre treads need to be any deeper? I just refreshed my memory by looking at the first page of the thread again, you have taken basic, ancient old plastic to modern super kit standards! I bet the sausage rolls turn out great too! Richie I've just reminded myself why I dislike enamels so much. It's taken me 3 days to paint something I could normally have covered in one session. Mr Aqueous COlor didn't leave me many options this time around though On 8/16/2021 at 5:12 AM, giemme said: Wheels looking impressively good - and so does the main model, under its grey shades Ciao thanks Giorgio. You might want to sit down for this episode On 8/16/2021 at 5:18 AM, BillF67 said: Lorne sausage or sausage rolls - which is it? Really shouldn’t use Lorne sausage for sausage rolls in my opinion! Ehhrrr... both. You can't get decent sausage meat in this area. I make a large batch, fill the loaf tin for the lorne, and what's left over makes up a couple of good sized sausage rolls. I know I should have a go at making my own sausages, but I'm too lazy and don't have the proper equipment. On 8/16/2021 at 1:52 PM, Pete in Lincs said: Paint! Hoorah! Looking very nice indeed. As for the DSG, That Mr Hobby stuff is Colonial DSG spelt with an A. Not Imperial DSG spelt with an E. There's your problem. I've been quite happy just using cheap dark grey Primer for DSG before now. I used some Humbrol gloss last week. At least 20 years old and it came out quite smartly. Nice wheels and pitot, BTW. Can't use Imperial gr*y anymore Pete - I thought we'd gone metric? On 8/16/2021 at 2:21 PM, Brandy said: I have no idea which DSG is correct but it looks good to me anyway! (Although grey is always a better bet for Dark Sea Grey than green is!) As for the pitot tube, what a great place to put it to encourage pilots not to drink too much the night before and risk impaling themselves as they try to climb into the cockpit! Ian But it sure makes a tempting grab handle to swing from when clambering into the cockpit. What a week that was. Not the best of weeks and not one I'd like to see repeated anytime soon. We do have some progress though. Lots of progress on some fronts, and not so much on others. I'll begin with the easy stuff. Wheels got painted. The tread shows up just enough to be seen which is great. I had been thinking it was too fine to print but these have turned out well. MM Dark Green, with Mr Color Tire black, and a dab of Mr Color Bronze (I think) for the greasy nuts. The bronze does a great job of making the nuts look greasy, and with the additional benefit that you don't have to be neat when you paint it on, I mean whoever heard of nice and neat greasy nuts? I've printed off a squadrons worth of wheels - just because the printer was running and I had space on the build plate. These are all sitting with a Flory wash, so I'll choose the best ones to go on the WW, and the rest.. dunno yet. I do know that I'm not building any more Whirlwinds, but they may find a home elsewhere. Paint was also spilled on the hoist. That stainless wire has since been blackened, I also spent some time on the main rotor blades this week, trying a few things to see if I could reverse the droop. I guess that would be a poord then? Anyway I tried manually flexing them, leaving them flexed with weights on them, and heating them up, even trying clamping them to some heated aluminum, but wasn't happy with the results. i.e., I got no poord worth talking about. I also looked at making them from scratch, with laminating sheets of various thicknesses together, but I think I am going to print them instead. I know I said I was going to avoid printing, and for the most part, I have kept to that, but sometimes, you just have do do what a modelers got to do. A job I hadn't been looking forward to was trimming the sliding windows from the vacforms of the other week. As it turned out, it wasn't too bad. I tried trimming the "frame" from some of the white styrene windows I had formed but everything ended up way to flimsy to use, so I'll end up just painting the frames on these after they've been dipped in the make it clearer stuff Onetask looming up soon will be fitting the undercarriage in place. On one u/c leg there is an electrical box. Take a thick piece of plasticard, and glue two thin pieces of plasticard to each side of it That can then be trimmed down to electrical box size. Leaving a small tab of the thin sheet on either side allows it to grab onto the leg and stay in place, though it will be glued when the time comes to actually fit it. Stick a couple of round things on the front and the electrical box is almost complete. I may attempt the wiring when it's fitted - not quite sure yet. Has anyone else ever experienced something like this? My Alclad Aqua Clear gloss has turned a distinct shade of blue. Now, I've only ever used clean (new) pipettes to take gloss out of this to transfer to the airbrush so I think I can rule out contamination. I'm becoming more and more suspect of Alclad products recently, and seriously considering to stop using them. I think I'm just going to bin this as I don't really want to take the chance that it may work despite being a bit blued. I took a days vacation back on Wednesday as I wanted to get some of yer actual real paint on this thing, at least, paint that wasn't grey. Things didn't go well. It would appear that over time, there were several different camo schemes used on the WW. I figured that out all by myself after spending hours trying to reconcile the markings shown on the port and starboard sides of my references. I only have one good shot of the port side of a 28 Sqn WW, and none of the starboard side, so was using whatever references I could find. I was surprised at the lack of decent references. Most of these WW's appear to have been painted bright yellow, which really wasn't a lot of use to me. After spending way more hours than I'd care to admit to, I decided that I needed to start again. That Humbrol enamel really sticks to the Alclad primer. It's just a shame that the alclad primer doesn't really want to stick to the whirlwind. Yup, paint lift in several spots. After wasting yet more time trying to figure out the markings, I gave up and changed tack. The rotor head. I still needed to make the swash plate and the non rotating plate. Previously I had started the swash plate in aluminum, but I don't have the skills to wrangle the other complex shapes found in the swash plate, out of aluminum or brass. Back to plastic. I used the circle cutter to cut a small disc, then stuck a piece of runner on top of that, followed by 3 legs of styrene sheets spaced at 120 degree intervals. I used the old kit part to make sure I had the spacings correct'ish Once the glue had set, the legs were trimmed back and filed/sanded/scraped to shape. I think those outriggers are still too long, but I need to wait until I have the pitch change rods attached then I can trim them back. next up was the lower swash plate (?). Another piece of runner with 4 legs this time. 3 legs for the hydraulic rams, and 1 leg for the torque link Shaped as much as I could without it breaking apart and sitting on top of an out of focus MRGB. It's not my best work, but still streets ahead of the kit parts. I should really have just printed the whole darned thing - would have been a lot easier. Then I got fed up with the rotor head and turned to other things. The undercarriage legs got their black gaiters. The MRGB got a coat of interior green and the tail rotor was painted up. I started with painting the tips white, then masked the two white lines. That was oversprayed with red, before another masking, and finally the black. Then I realised that I had completely missed the red band at the blade root, so it was masked up again and the red band added. That band has turned out a bit darker ans it was painted over black, but I wasn't about to start from scratch again. I'm blaming it in sloppy painters in the bay. Yesterday, once again I turned to the detestable job of masking up for the camouflage. Things didn't really go any better this time - it still took hours and I still had trouble reconciling port and starboard demarcations for some reason. In the end I just started making things up, trying to include as much of the 28 Sqn scheme as I could and at some point it morphs into a 60's/70's hybrid scheme. 28 Sqn must be the worst record keepers in the entire RAF At this point I was starting to feel good about the paint job. That was, until I started unmasking. Ouch. followed by another ouch on the tail boom - different from the first ouch on the tail boom. Starboard side went a lot better and the paint didn't fall off I used a mix of DSG and black - since I can no longer get my favorite grimy flat black anymore - to cover her bottom Now I just have to mask off for a nice anti-glare panel on the nose. I'm still calming down from today's adventures so that will have to wait until at least tomorrow. I'm still pondering whether to print the roto head or not. I know I said I wanted to stick to old school type modeling here, but I'm not too enamored with my rotor head attempt so far. Maybe it will look better under paint. note to self. This build is still fun. This build is still fun. This build is still fun. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, hendie said: This build is still fun. Well we like it 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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