RichieW Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 More awesomeness, more note taking going on. As well as being a fun build for you it's proving to be very educational for me. I've been promised the loan of a 3d printer for a few months, probably not long enough for me to learn to use the software though. Great CAD drawings of the wheels, looking forward to seeing how they print. Richie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyDad Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Whoo hoo! Cracking on now - great stuff! SD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 It is like watching 'Harry Potter does Modelling' with all this plastic wizardry, brass alchemy and even the dark art of CAD. Superb work Hendie. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 I'm impressed and speechless, Alan Of all the things, that overhead console you popped out making it look like it was the easiest thing in the world, it's insanely good! Ciao 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 The impressive work continues. Really like what you are doing here Alan. 1 hour ago, giemme said: I'm impressed and speechless Hang on Giorgio, you can't be speechless at this point of the build. Isn't it about now we start pestering Alan re getting paint on? 😄 Terry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 Mail call On 7/25/2021 at 2:07 AM, Pete in Lincs said: Rotor brake, overhead console, screen fairing. Wow! Impressive stuff. The wheels? Excellent, but You forgot the split pin! Doh! I took you for brighter than that Pete - I can't fit the split pin until the wheel goes on the axle On 7/25/2021 at 3:02 AM, Biggles87 said: Window seals, rotor brake, overhead console. Words fail me ( well nearly ). OK this is a test shot of a new state of the art Whirlwind innit? You’e just pretending to build the old one, time to own up. John If only, John, if only On 7/25/2021 at 3:42 AM, bentwaters81tfw said: I have 3 sets of wheels from 2 different sources. 2 from USA, and one from the Czech republic. Probably quicker and cheaper to print your own. got any links? The only Whirlwind wheels I could find were different from those fitted on the HAR On 7/25/2021 at 4:38 AM, perdu said: Is it too late to change your rotor brake? If there are any areas you would like me to photograph on their HAR10 put in a special order on the photo slip at the end of this missive. I will be attempting to release the secrets of the Whirlyrotorbrakedevice, for myself. And posterity, these things must be told. Other requests are also solicited folks. It's not too late but I don't think I'm going to. Thanks for the offer Bill but I believe I have everything I need at present. No doubt when you get back I'll remember some area that I need details of. On 7/25/2021 at 5:03 AM, RichieW said: More awesomeness, more note taking going on. As well as being a fun build for you it's proving to be very educational for me. I've been promised the loan of a 3d printer for a few months, probably not long enough for me to learn to use the software though. Great CAD drawings of the wheels, looking forward to seeing how they print. Richie On print run 3 as I type. This one should be a charm. Or not. On 7/25/2021 at 5:58 AM, SafetyDad said: Whoo hoo! Cracking on now - great stuff! SD thanks SD On 7/25/2021 at 10:28 AM, Head in the clouds. said: It is like watching 'Harry Potter does Modelling' with all this plastic wizardry, brass alchemy and even the dark art of CAD. Superb work Hendie. 7 hours ago, giemme said: I'm impressed and speechless, Alan Of all the things, that overhead console you popped out making it look like it was the easiest thing in the world, it's insanely good! Ciao Ah... speechless. Good. You heard it here first folks 5 hours ago, Terry1954 said: The impressive work continues. Really like what you are doing here Alan. Hang on Giorgio, you can't be speechless at this point of the build. Isn't it about now we start pestering Alan re getting paint on? 😄 Terry He can't Terry. He's speechless. It's official S'been a bit of a rum week this week has. A few hours spent in the basement but not a lot of progress to show for it. One thing that did advance slightly was the tail rotor. The kit blades were a bit narrow towards the blade tips so I grafted on some F2b elevators that were spare and carved things back to shape, and stuck another few scraps of styrene on here and there. First coat of primer reveals that a little rework is needed though nothing too drastic. A job for micromesh, when I'm in the mood The printer was brought into the foray again, this time printing the sliding windows. These will be used either as bucks for the vacuforming, or as masters for a silicone mold which will then be used to make bucks for vacuforming, or something like that. I printed them in 3 different orientations to see which produced the best part though I already had a good idea which it would be. The prints just confirmed my suspicions that printing in the vertical orientation produced the best quality, though there will be some more micromeshing in my near future. I took the opportunity to make sure that the thing fitted before expending any more effort This was around where the week start to go a bit awry. One of the biggest issues with CAD (when you don't have exact measurement or real data) is that what you see on screen can be very deceiving at times. On screen, the wheels looked fine but when I printed them the tread was almost non-existent so back to SolidWorks and I deepened the tread. In this shot my first attempt is on the extreme right and you can see that the tread is all but invisible. My second attempt is shown on the remaining two sets. The tread is better but still way to fine. I'm now running print 3. On the positive side they look about right for size ... Look Before You Leap a.k.a. An Exercise in Futility In a reconnaissance mission in the WW archives I spotted an interesting looking rescue hoist that I thought would be fun to have a bash at. Sadly, my imagination and reality were at odds with each other and I had about 4 or 5 false starts. Around mid-week I started to make headway but it was hard going. The hoist has 3 spars (actually 4 I think) with 1 main spar at the center then all the other spars converging on that spar towards the tip. Of course the two on the outside are not only angled upwards, but angled in to meet the center spar. After much cursing, coercing, and coffee I had something which wasn't completely abominable. (the kit rescue hoist is center shot) Dressing up the primary greeble with secondary and tertiary greeblies and adding some scraps started to make it look like the thing I was seeing in the pictures or was I just imagining things? Towards the end of the week I started feeling pretty chuffed with myself and even posed for some glamor shots and right after this I checked my somewhat scant reference photos of 28 Sqn WW's. Guess what? Only one of the photos I have shows that particular design of rescue hoist and that shot doesn't include any serials or identifying marks that allow me to tie it to 28 Sqn with any certainty. I have about 4 other shots in which I have serials confirming them to be 28 Sqn and they ARE ALL FITTED WITH ANOTHER TYPE OF RESCUE HOIST Fiddlesticks! I was so looking forward to attempting all those hydraulics hoses and wiring... Here we go again I was concentrating on getting the real rescue hoist finished today and in the rush completely forgot to take any in progress shots until I was so pleased with the first wrong one that I primed it anyway, just to see how it looked and another shot just for the fun of it. I said 'fun' there, right? After having time to mull it over, I'm feeling okay with the more basic hoist configuration. It kind of suits the rather elementary nature of the WW in terms of helo evolution. I'll just keep telling myself that. Over and over To kill the week off I polished up the windscreen and the printed sliders (two slightly different versions) and poured silicone over them to be left overnight and while I had the primer out I finally remembered to spray the cabin door. It doesn't show up here but the BMF looks to have done a good job in breaking up the monotony of the flat surface. I hesitate to call this a success yet but I was pleased with how the buck for the Vokes filter turned out. I've yet to try it so there could very well be one or more iterations of this to see if I can successfully vacuform the filter for the nose we shall see 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 You have been a busy chap, haven't you? The results show that it was all well worth it though. Sorry about the split pin thing. I was getting overexcited as we edge towards paint. I like the slicks. that might speed things up a bit? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 That was a cracking update Hendie on all things lifty and winchy. Such a shame you could not use the first, wrong, right winch but wrong time frame item🤪 as it is superb modelling with fine detailing. That Volkes filter looks the ticket too, how long does it take you to produce an item like that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyDad Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Both of those winches look excellent! Extraordinary work - very impressive. SD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Lovely winching Alan If it is any help to your build winch #2 is the one on the SAR Whirlys, like the one my ATC squadron had our photo-call with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 https://www.scalemates.com/kits/res-kit-rs48-0201-h-19-type-2-wheels-set--1273474 https://www.scalemates.com/kits/res-kit-rs48-0200-h-19-type-1-wheels-set--1273473 Both sets in stock Sprue Bros. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieW Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 What a great update, that highly detailed but wrong winch is incredible. Hhmmmm, another helicopter build to fit to? 3d printing looks like a great but frustrating thing. I love that photo with the wheels test fitted. It looks like a real WW primed and in the paint shop. Just amazing!!!!! Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Well it looks as though you're just going to have to find another 28 Sqn chopper to build that was fitted with the later winch. Be a shame to waste it. Do Fly make something appropriate? Ian 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenSharp Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 I've had the same problem when printing wheels as well Hendie. I've learned it the lines, grooves, fine detail,etc is smaller than 250um the printing doesn't always show up or only partially prints. I thought maybe with the larger printer I just got might do better since it had a higher resolution but so far that hasn't been the case. But then when you get down to 1/4 of a millimeter or smaller its next to invisible anyways printed or not. So far everything you're doing is looking Great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Impressive detailing job once again, Alan I'm no longer speechless, though, so: about time for some paint? Ciao 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, giemme said: about time for some paint? YESSSSSS! 🤣 Terry 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 Alan, superb work on the two hoists. I think the fancy one was the 200lb version and came into service later into the WW service life. The hoist mechanism being on the outside of the airframe. Where as the older type the mechanism must have been in the cabin. However, I have never seen reference of it. Maybe it was a throwback to that supplied in the kit, the US type. Great work as usual. I need some of your wheels and slidy doors! I have three S-55 kits in the stash, one at least has to end up as a HAS Mk7!!! Colin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertie McBoatface Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 This is superb storytelling, Hendie. Your modelling is rather impressive too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 I might be about to bugger up a good story but I just found this, a preserved Whirlwind photographed at Cosford during some display or other Right colour scheme I presume with additional UN Marks which carries your lovely big winch no 1.(I magnified the picture for confirmation) This is a scheme I might build if I ever get my hands on another Whirly, dammit I am tempted to de-Marine-ise my one from a couple of years ago and mutilate the fuselage. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted August 1, 2021 Author Share Posted August 1, 2021 greetings fellow modelers. On 7/31/2021 at 1:26 AM, Pete in Lincs said: You have been a busy chap, haven't you? The results show that it was all well worth it though. Sorry about the split pin thing. I was getting overexcited as we edge towards paint. I like the slicks. that might speed things up a bit? Thanks Pete. Speed things up? At this rate, this build is going to rival Pegasus On 7/31/2021 at 2:02 AM, Head in the clouds. said: That was a cracking update Hendie on all things lifty and winchy. Such a shame you could not use the first, wrong, right winch but wrong time frame item🤪 as it is superb modelling with fine detailing. That Volkes filter looks the ticket too, how long does it take you to produce an item like that? Thanks Hitc. The filter? That probably took an hour, maybe an hour and a half from start to finish. I tend to throw things at the screen and see what sticks - then delete most if it and start again once I see how things work out, and if there are any problem aras I'm going to hit. THis one was fairly straightforward and I had a good idea of what steps were needed before I began. On 7/31/2021 at 2:09 AM, SafetyDad said: Both of those winches look excellent! Extraordinary work - very impressive. SD Ta SD On 7/31/2021 at 3:08 AM, perdu said: Lovely winching Alan If it is any help to your build winch #2 is the one on the SAR Whirlys, like the one my ATC squadron had our photo-call with. No2 it is Bill. On 7/31/2021 at 3:48 AM, bentwaters81tfw said: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/res-kit-rs48-0201-h-19-type-2-wheels-set--1273474 https://www.scalemates.com/kits/res-kit-rs48-0200-h-19-type-1-wheels-set--1273473 Both sets in stock Sprue Bros. Ah, those are the ones I had been looking at previously. Sadly, neither of them are correct for a Whirlwind HAR - the mainwheels are wrong. On 7/31/2021 at 4:44 AM, RichieW said: What a great update, that highly detailed but wrong winch is incredible. Hhmmmm, another helicopter build to fit to? 3d printing looks like a great but frustrating thing. I love that photo with the wheels test fitted. It looks like a real WW primed and in the paint shop. Just amazing!!!!! Richie ta Richie On 7/31/2021 at 5:33 AM, Brandy said: Well it looks as though you're just going to have to find another 28 Sqn chopper to build that was fitted with the later winch. Be a shame to waste it. Do Fly make something appropriate? Ian If it wasn't for your recent bout with covid I'd be right over there to bash you on the nose for that. On 7/31/2021 at 8:55 AM, LorenSharp said: I've had the same problem when printing wheels as well Hendie. I've learned it the lines, grooves, fine detail,etc is smaller than 250um the printing doesn't always show up or only partially prints. I thought maybe with the larger printer I just got might do better since it had a higher resolution but so far that hasn't been the case. But then when you get down to 1/4 of a millimeter or smaller its next to invisible anyways printed or not. So far everything you're doing is looking Great! It's all a matter of balance between exposure time, anti-aliasing and overall dimensions. I'm sure if I kept going I could get something better, but I think I have what I need now - only paint will tell. 23 hours ago, giemme said: Impressive detailing job once again, Alan I'm no longer speechless, though, so: about time for some paint? Ciao OI! Haven't you a vacation you should be getting on with? You got primer weeks ago. Stop being so impatient. 23 hours ago, Terry1954 said: YESSSSSS! 🤣 Terry NO! 11 hours ago, heloman1 said: Alan, superb work on the two hoists. I think the fancy one was the 200lb version and came into service later into the WW service life. The hoist mechanism being on the outside of the airframe. Where as the older type the mechanism must have been in the cabin. However, I have never seen reference of it. Maybe it was a throwback to that supplied in the kit, the US type. Great work as usual. I need some of your wheels and slidy doors! I have three S-55 kits in the stash, one at least has to end up as a HAS Mk7!!! Colin Thanks Colin. I agree - the cable definitely disappears back into the fuselage, but I haven't come across anything in photoland that shows what the working mechanism inside the cabin looks like. 11 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said: This is superb storytelling, Hendie. Your modelling is rather impressive too! Thanks Bertie 11 hours ago, perdu said: I might be about to bugger up a good story but I just found this, a preserved Whirlwind photographed at Cosford during some display or other <snip> Right colour scheme I presume with additional UN Marks which carries your lovely big winch no 1.(I magnified the picture for confirmation) This is a scheme I might build if I ever get my hands on another Whirly, dammit I am tempted to de-Marine-ise my one from a couple of years ago and mutilate the fuselage. Go for it Bill - you know you want to. The UN marking is a nice scheme Where does the time go I ask? This took over an hour to do. What I hear you say? WHat took over an hour? Those little bloody bits of wire, that's what. Once I saw them in photos I knew I had to do something about them much as I really just wanted to ignore them. Each control rod is about 2mm long and there are three on the rear side of the rotor blade. At least they are done now. Then things started to suck. But not in a bad way The Vokes filter nose intake breather template thing with holes in it appeared to work, though it was a bit of a pig to clean up and remove from the master. I did a few and got better at it as I progressed. This shot is of the first master which I revised and reprinted later and did some more sucky things with it. As a test piece though, I think it proved the concept. I believe I can get it a bit neater than this and I have sucked on both 0.75mm and 0.5mm plasticard to see if there is any real difference in terms of cleanup and part integrity. Surprisingly, both thicknesses appear to produce a part that feels relatively robust. With the printer happily oscillating away I found that I am at that sort of stall point in the build. I really need the windscreen fitted so I can blend it in and get the final primer coat on ready for the good colors. After reading Tony's wonderful Vixen post and how he revolutionized vacuforming with the discovery of cold casting, I ordered some of the magic powder, but while waiting for it to arrive, I couldn't resist trying a few pulls (careful Ced) to see what happened. I made a resin cast of the windscreen from the silicone mold I'd made earlier. From what everyone has noted regarding off-gassing, and resin bucks, my hopes weren't high, but we still all hope don't we? The result - not good at all. How come Bill makes it look so darned easy? I'm using 0.03 inch PETG sheet as I wanted the final part to have some sort of structural integrity and not deform at the slightest touch. As it turns out, the part has plenty of strength so at least that was good. Things did get a little better as I wasted more sheets but I think I can confirm that vacuforming on a resin buck is not the way to go. Then while messing around with melting plastic in the basement, Alexa gleefully notified me that I had a delivery from Amazon. Oh yes, the magic powder had arrived. I should state at this point that I have not followed Tony's advice to the letter. I looked at ordering polyurethane resin but balked at the thought of having to spend nearly $40 for something that I'm going to use a tiny bit of, then it will go off before I have opportunity to ever use it again. Damn those Scottish roots. I did try a bit of one upmanship over Tony though. Where Tony had used Aluminum powder, I went for Stainless Steel. - It was a dollar cheaper (I told you about the Scottish heritage so don't be surprised) So again with the resin, this time with a generous dollop of SS powder in the mix and we're ready to go. Okay, I know I should have waited much longer for the resin to fully cure but impatience got the best of me. At least the first test pull was promising - way better than just the pure resin mix. I'm still not sure if the imperfections are down to my lack of skills or just impatience waiting for the resin to cure. I called it a day on that just to avoid wasting any more PETG. I'll let that buck cure for a day or two before I try again. However, while ratching about I came across some fiberglass resin that I had left over from Pegasus - What ho - in for a penny and all that. (Yes, still trying to avoid spending $40 on the proper stuff) It was just going to waste otherwise as I don't have any other use for it so it's worth a bash. It may destroy the mold, but to be honest, I thought that silicone was a bit iffy when I used it and there are a few small imperfections in the mold, so I may have to buy some more silicone anyway. As I closed up shop for the evening, I had this lot hopefully starting to cure. Let's finish up on a high spot shall we? The Vokes filter. It looks like I have sussed out the method for making the filter housing so now I just need to figure out how to make the filter itself. Vokes Filters 101 A piece of plasticard painted black on one side. A pencil. Vacuformed housing (test piece will do for this trial) White thread. Actually I used white thread as it was what I had to hand. Well, I also had black, but I didn't think that would work so well so white it is. I ran the white thread over the pencil graphite a few times then ran my fingers up and down the thread to distribute the graphite, resulting in a greyish color. So far so good. The next step was to wrap the grey thread around the painted plasticard a few times - all stuck on the back side with superglue. It actually works in this application. Once I had enough wraps on the card, it was cut to length, some cyano applied to the ends to stop and thread from coming loose. Hey presto - a filter looking thing. I felt pretty good about that and think it's going to work fine at this scale. Now I just need to make the other sets. All in all, a decent weekends work. If I can just get that windscreen thing to work, so I'd appreciate any tips on the process. I'm bringing the PETG up just a bit less than halfway to the heater and leaving it until I see it sag - somewhere around 15 seconds or so. I've noticed that it initially sags very quickly, then goes taught again before finally sagging deeper. I tried forming after the first sag, but the plastic was still way too firm to be able to be pulled over the buck, so now I wait for the second sag. Any advice greatly appreciated (and I've also ordered some 0.02 inch PETG just in case.) 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Another adventure in the American West I love the filter, can you knock me up a couple to fit my Electrolux 4450 please? Seriously I do love the filter idea, tiptop extra-box thinking. Bill doesn't (yet) use resin blanks to mould from, the cry (anguished) will soon be going up "How does Hendie do it?" when he does. One thought, and remember I do not have the whizzo-bango electrodental moulding whizzery about me, can you try lifting t temperature, dropping it and lifting again a time or two? PETg does seem willing to change its nature at least temporarily very easily so maybe getting the changes done before you approach the buck could help. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 On 8/1/2021 at 9:52 AM, perdu said: I am tempted to de-Marine-ise my one from a couple of years ago and mutilate the fuselage. Wash your mouth out. That would be vandalism of the highest order. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Wash your mouth out. That would be vandalism of the highest order. Do you know how hard it is to get raw materials post-Covid young Crisp? This has run its race and come in way down the pecking order, time for a retail therapy (hur hur) possibly. Anyway fear not the little H-19 will probably outlive me, there's much to do before that gets back in the chase. Did I mention the Cormorant that wants in the helicopter box with these? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 I like the thread/filter idea. Cunning! But if @CedB reads that last paragraph about your sagging windscreen, he's going to need oxygen. (Or a good Vet). 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 22 hours ago, hendie said: I did try a bit of one upmanship over Tony though. Where Tony had used Aluminum powder, I went for Stainless Steel. - It was a dollar cheaper You're all set up to make your own bathroom fittings from now on then so! 😄 22 hours ago, hendie said: . If I can just get that windscreen thing to work, so I'd appreciate any tips on the process. Tis a black/bleak art Alan isn't it so kindred solidarity heading your way from this end. It's hard to tell from the photos the exact nature of the imperfections that you mention, so as to the windshield on the helicopter itself I can't quite tell if that's speckles of dust on it, or bubbly bits on the vacform itself. FWIW though these are the fruits of my recent forays: 1. I'm using the same thickness transparency as you - 0.03"/0.5mm. 2. My studio bench is filthy enough that I had a major problem with dust routinely contaminating early vacforms, due to static on the petg acting as a veritable neutron star of filth and sucking all surrounding particles of matter onto itself. (I now vacform on the - relatively less dusty - kitchen table, and don't have this issue). 3. The day after they were cold cast, I baked the bucks in the oven at 50-60 deg. C for a couple of hours to help cook off any gases. 4. This leaves only a *very* slight mistiness sometimes in one or two quite tiny patches along the top of my canopies - these disappear completely after a quick dip in varnish (Aqua Clear seems to be the best at this). 5. I've changed my methodology with the dental vacform and achieve more reliable results now by ignoring the gradual heating that I used to do. Now I let the heater element reach full blast, then raise the petg straight up to the top. You mentioned the sagging process yourself - after the second droop starts, once it reaches about 2cm (quite there in the stalls), drop the petg straight down onto the bucks, simultaneously whipping the heater off to one side whilst turning the vacuum on for about 10 seconds. Since making these changes I've been reliably turning out batches of canopies without any of the previous blistering/clouding problems I initially struggled with. I hope some of this helps Alan - apologies for taking up so much of your space with verbose explanations... You'll crack this problem. You always do. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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