28 Sqn Whirlwind: A highly detailed, shake and bake kit

[SafetyDad]

I'd like to add my praise to the torrent of well-wishing here.

Your seatbelts look excellent! I'm very impressed. Who needs these expensive fabric add-ons that I keep buying when you can get such good results from paper?

And your ingenuity and determination to fabricate the rotor head thingy is just marvellous.

 

Well done, stay safe and keep going please

 

SD

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Awesome.  (And every helicopter pilot I know always called them “rudder pedals”)

[Space Ranger]

On 6/27/2021 at 2:30 AM, perdu said:

This fag paper foil, looks like I am doomed to take up the evil weed again in order to obtain raw materials, the cockpit and seats are a delight.

Yes, where does one obtain "fag paper foil" if one does not use the the evil weed? I've never used it (well, not THAT evil weed, anyway) and don't intend to start now at age 74. but it does look like a useful addition to one's inventory of building supplies.

[AdrianMF]

Superb stuff! I’ve just had a mega catch-up. Fascinating.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[The Spadgent]

Simply amazing. The seats really do look the business. When you say cigarette foil do you mean the paper that used to be the liner in a box o’ fags or the paper of say a pouch of tobacco? I haven’t smoked for years but I can’t remember the last time I saw some ciggies with paper in the box.  That rotor head is sublime. I’m in awe. Again. 🙌

 

 Johnny

[hendie]

On 6/27/2021 at 3:26 AM, Head in the clouds. said:

I did not think so, your work is superb and all those knobs,switches and other WW bits lift it to a very acceptable level, I do like those fag paper seat belts, they look better than anything Mr Ed can pump out.

The brass and copper alchemy is 100% better than the kit item, in hindsight, with the sparkly copper/brass in front of you, would the kit part, if of correct dimensions cut the mustard for you?

 

As for the rotor blades and other magical machinery that makes up the rotor head I shall .....🙏 for a suitable outcome, I am sure the prayer will be answered.

 

The kit part?  Probably not - the two castings on the 1:1 are different heights so even if they had got the profile correct (i.e. smaller) the kit rotor head is going to end up about 3 or 4 times as thick as it should be.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 3:30 AM, Hamden said:

Great update and micro engineering as well

   Stay safe          Roger

 

thanks Roger

 

On 6/27/2021 at 3:30 AM, perdu said:

You are happy with the girder things so am I, phhew...

I really admire that sad picture, grabbing it!

The rotor head is always too big on these things isn't it, love the brass neck of yours though.

The brass everything that isn't copper.

And aluminum.

Takes me back a year or so...

(I have a bid on a Whirly now, fingers crossed please)

I really like the nose casting too, my fingers are crossed for the E6000 glue to hold it.

I need to devise a difficult lab test for its gripping strength before my nerves would risk it.

This fag paper foil, looks like I am doomed to take up the evil weed again in order to obtain raw materials, the cockpit and seats are a delight.

 

E6000 is a great bonding agent Bill. Sticks to anything though you have to be careful with styrene and not lay it on too heavy or the stuff will happily eat the plastic.  

 

On 6/27/2021 at 7:05 AM, RichieW said:

Happy travels, you deserve a break after all that!

Amazing scratch work to make the rotor head, super fine, eyeball ache inducing detail. Totally worth the labour!

The cockpit, from what it was to what it now is, wow! 

'The last cockpit greeblies' sounds like a Sci fi film, I'd definitely watch it! 

Best wishes

Richie

 

thanks Richie.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 7:26 AM, Pete in Lincs said:

And where the safe place is that you used to store them. They look good though, a well spent three hours.

The term you wanted was Yaw pedals. The cockpit looks great to me. Seats, I.P. and all.

Could that square belly box be for a Rad Alt? 

Stay safe on your travels. 

 

Yaw pedals - thanks Pete!   No idea what the square box is and I'm now in two minds whether to model it or not.  I'm fairly certain the particular WW I'm going to end up doing does not have it fitted.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 7:51 AM, Biggles87 said:

That cockpit looks great to me too, but I noticed that the excellent seat harnesses had negative ‘G’ straps, where these really used on Whirlycopters?

Have a good break.

John

 

They were certainly used on the Wessex, and as Bill notes, also on the Belvedere, so I'm going with it.

 

On 6/27/2021 at 11:46 AM, perdu said:

I can confirm a: brake pedals only on right seat pedals  b: the collective looks just like the ones in my very dark, so I wont put it here, photo of a RAF Whirly.

No confirmation yet about the negative "G" straps, but since Belvederes seem to have had them at the time my vote is yes.

 

Thanks Bill.  It's always good to have confirmation

 

On 6/27/2021 at 2:44 PM, Fritag said:

Tremendous progress, great update, inspiring work.  The range of materials that you use with such knowledge and skill is so impressive Alan.  Always a delight tagging along.

 

Thanks Steve, though not so much knowledge and skills as grasping at straws and sheer desperation 

 

On 6/27/2021 at 6:03 PM, Terry1954 said:

A very impressive update Alan, so much going on and I was heartened to see that large expanse of Milliput forming part of the nose - I love the stuff. I have a few packs on the go and I think my oldest is over 10 years at least and it's still good to use.

Terry

 

This episode should whet your whistle then... more of the yellow stuff awaits

 

On 6/27/2021 at 9:34 PM, Super18 said:

I mostly just watch, but I ran into this and thought of your build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCijbNi9aXE

 

 

Thanks Super18 - that was a great piece of film.  

 

On 6/27/2021 at 10:33 PM, Space Ranger said:

Re: Rotor blades. Remember, the kit is an H-19, NOT a Whirlwind. The rotor blade rotation depicted in the kit is correct, I think. But I could be wrong. I've been wrong before, as the Missus insists on reminding me.

 

Re: Cockpit seats. On the H-19, the cockpit seat bottoms were hinged so that the cockpit could be accessed from the cabin by means of steps on the forward cabin wall. I discovered this at the age of 8 at an airshow at the former Reese AFB near Lubbock, Texas, when I clambered aboard an H-19 on static display. I tried to enter the cockpit thusly, but the nasty older boys already there wouldn't share.

 

One interesting note, as told me by a former instructor of aircraft mechanics, is that Sikorsky helicopter flight controls were fully hydraulic powered and, until the engine had been started and hydraulic pressure came up to normal operating range, the cyclic stick just flopped around loosely and did nothing. This, of course, led to all manner of off-color jokes which shall not be repeated here. But the advantage of hydraulic controls lay in the fact that they could be disconnected so that the engine could be worked on while running at idle, if necessary. The disadvantage, however, was that one had to be careful not to rev up the engine too much, lest the whirlythingy take off without any way to control it. I am aware of one such incident at Sheppard AFB, in which a CH-53 being used for maintenance instruction took off with controls disconnected, fatally injuring a student airman in the resulting crash.

 

Deadly if used correctly, and also deadly if used incorrectly

 

On 6/28/2021 at 3:11 AM, giemme said:

Fashionably late to this update, Alan - apologies. I will echo all the other comments, impressive set of skills on display, for this fascinating multimedia build     The seat belts are the icing on the cockpit cake!

Ciao

 

thanks Giorgio

 

On 6/28/2021 at 3:16 AM, SafetyDad said:

I'd like to add my praise to the torrent of well-wishing here.

Your seatbelts look excellent! I'm very impressed. Who needs these expensive fabric add-ons that I keep buying when you can get such good results from paper?

And your ingenuity and determination to fabricate the rotor head thingy is just marvellous.

 

Well done, stay safe and keep going please

 

SD

 

oh I have a feeling this will keep going for some time yet

 

On 6/28/2021 at 8:18 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Awesome.  (And every helicopter pilot I know always called them “rudder pedals”)

 

and there we have it.  It's definitive.  Thanks Crisp!

 

On 6/28/2021 at 4:40 PM, Space Ranger said:

Yes, where does one obtain "fag paper foil" if one does not use the the evil weed? I've never used it (well, not THAT evil weed, anyway) and don't intend to start now at age 74. but it does look like a useful addition to one's inventory of building supplies.

 

I suggest you don a long, shabby and weather beaten coat, preferably tweed or similar - it should have plenty of frayed edges.  A ushanka hat is compulsory even in summer.  Grab the nearest shopping trolley - must have wheels that wobble - throw in a few plastic bags filled with anything you can lay your hands on, and you can then walk the streets, searching in bins without fear of weird looks.  Find any discarded cigarette packs, and simply pull out the foil liner. 

 

On 6/28/2021 at 7:34 PM, AdrianMF said:

Superb stuff! I’ve just had a mega catch-up. Fascinating.

Regards,

Adrian

 

thanks Adrian

 

3 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Simply amazing. The seats really do look the business. When you say cigarette foil do you mean the paper that used to be the liner in a box o’ fags or the paper of say a pouch of tobacco? I haven’t smoked for years but I can’t remember the last time I saw some ciggies with paper in the box.  That rotor head is sublime. I’m in awe. Again. 🙌

 

 Johnny

 

hi Johnny, yup - the liner is the useful part.  Very thin tinfoil with very thin paper backer.  Great for creating belts, canvas, and anything resembling webbing etc.

 

 

Back from my travels once again.  I really hate flying these days.  That's my first flight in around 14 or 15 months and it was worse than I remembered.   If I drive it's around a 7 or 8 hour drive depending upon bio-breaks and coffee stops.  The flight is only 90 minutes, but by the time I drive to the airport, wait two hours for the 90 minute flight, then have a two hour drive at the other end to get to where I need to go, it's pretty much a wash time wise.  I think I'll just drive it in future. Less frustration.

 

I had some free time on the Sunday before I left so I managed to dig out a rough whirlwind shape from all that milliput.  It didn't take nearly as long as I thought it would.  Small mercies eh?

 

 

Happy with the nose thus far, it was time to start thinking about all the greeblies and sticky-outy bits that adorn the WW.  First of those was the undercarriage.  Not really sure why, but it felt easy.

Then it wasn't.

While the kit is reasonably accurate in side profile, it is a tad on the heavy side in cross section.  That meant I couldn't use the wheelbase from the drawing as the front wheels would then be too close together.  To make matters worse, the curvature from each side as it rolls to the underside is slightly different.  After pondering this for a while, I decided to use the rail below the cockpit as a datum and measured from the underside of that rail to the top side of the undercarriage opening.  That way, even if the curvature is slightly different, both wheel sshould (theoretically) be set at the same height.   Once I had that top line of the opening, I used masking tape to mark the boundary lines, then drilled and chiselled my way to make the recesses.

 

 

The kit undercarriage leg as you can imagine, wasn't terribly accurate. To be fair, it wasn't bad, but it was missing a couple of key features and was a bit clunky in places.

The bottom half of the kit part was salvaged and had a little bit of fettling courtesy of the knife blade, then I drilled a hole through the top end. I then grabbed some brass rod and turned two legs in the lathe. Simple enough, even for me - it was just a case of removing brass until I got to the correct diameter, and making sure each section on both legs was the same length. I also turned a small 1 mm pin on the bottom of each leg which was then used to fir into the kit part. Hey presto... a WW front undercarriage leg.

From right - the kit part, center - the turned leg, and left, turned leg and kit part assembled.

 

 

All of which then fits nicely into a 2 mm hole in the recess.  The overall height may need some final tweaking but that's good enough for now.

 

 

Now this job had me thinking for a while.  Initially I had made a half drum shape to bodge onto the front end, but the more I thought about it, the more I was convinced it was a less than ideal solution. 

I would have to cut 8 identical rectangular holes in it, and somehow I would have to be able to fit the filters inside.  Eventually I discarded that Idea and went in another direction, this time using two semi-circles of styrene to define the outer edges of the filter.  E6000 was the adhesive of choice once again - it has no problems bonding to the resin.  If any excess squeezes out, leave it a few minutes to start curing and it can be sliced away cleanly.  Great stuff.

 

 

Once the glue had cured - about 10 minutes or so, out came the milliput again and the sides were filled in.  That was easy enough but I have a feeling that getting the correct profile in all three axes is going to be a bit of a job. 

 

 

Following that there was very little I could do until the milliput has cured so it was time to start on the rest of the undercarriage.   This was a lot more difficult than I imagined.  I spent the best part of an hour trying different option to replicate the u/c leg mounting to the fuselage,  all of which failed.  In the end, I just went with a 1 mm brass rod as I'd rather have a secure fixing that wasn't accurate than an accurate fixing that was destined to fail.

I think I will be able to greeble it a bit to make it less obvious that it's just a bent rod.

 

 

The hardest part was getting the two legs to jin at the correct angles relative to each other, and also angled correctly relative to the fuselage.  This was the result of about an hour and a half's work and I'm still not certain it's correct.  It's close, but will still need tweaking. It was very much a case of a little at a time.  Take off too much and it's scrap and I'd have to start all over again. 

Then I have to figure out how to create an axle at the joint.  THEN... I have the fun of doing it all over again on the other side, and trying to keep everything symmetrical, axles at the same height relative to the fuselage etc. 

Glorious fun.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

Welcome back, and thanks for a great update. Nice legs on the front. Rather you than me on the back ones!

[perdu]

The swing arms are quite a lot like those on the Wessex, but the mounting bearing is less 'beefy', not much else different about that part, yours looks the real deal.

 

The shock strut has a less beefy mounting bracket than Walter, otherwise again not much different.

 

I'm shocked that you havent put the front legs on the metal frames they attach to the front of the engine bulkhead with, I mean..

 

Well actually I jest, the new front legs are a triumph Alan, kinda wow from me for that.

 

Oh and because Honkers seems to have received most of its Whirlys from the Borneo squadrons I took a fresh cruise through the Boys Book to look at the pictures, most shots showing undersides show the flat box between the legs.

 

If I don't see the box I feel it is because the photograph isn't up to the tasking...

[giemme]

4 hours ago, perdu said:

the new front legs are a triumph Alan, kinda wow from me for that.

Definitely a from me! And that goes for the rest of the update too (for some reason, I love the first pic you posted,  where you can see the beautifully finished interiors and the in-progress exteriors).

 

Now I'm gonna need a couple of details, Alan, if you don't mind: you've probably already done that, but can you post a pic of your lathe? Also, what I exactly E6000? TIA

 

Ciao

[hendie]

Giorgio, the lathe is one of the (relatively) cheap imports from China.  Very similar to this one from Amazon

 

 

 

 

 

I needed it early on in Pegasus days to machine something (wheels maybe?) as that was the only way it could be done.  There are several cheap tool shop chains here in the US and every now and then they have special offers and I managed to get a 30% off deal, otherwise I don't think I could have justified it. As it has turned out, I have used it fairly regularly and it has been indispensable at times. 

 

 

E6000 Glue is a clear drying flexible epoxy. It sets in about 10 minutes though full cure takes around 24 hours - (I find that I can handle things easily  after 15 or 20 minutes). It's paintable  and sandable according to the literature.   My only complaint is that it's rather viscous (think silicone sealant) so can be difficult to apply to very small parts.  Clean up is easy as I normally wait a few minutes for it to start setting up, then run a knife blade around whatever is being glued, and then I can just peel it off.

 

 

[giemme]

Thanks Alan, a lathe for metals, that's exactly what I was wondering. Too expensive for me for now, but maybe I can keep an eye on special offers

 

Also, the E6000 is epoxy, you say; not two parts epoxy though,  apparently?

 

Thanks again

Ciao 

[hendie]

40 minutes ago, giemme said:

Also, the E6000 is epoxy, you say; not two parts epoxy though,  apparently?

 

Nope - it is used straight from the tube Giorgio.

 

I agree, the metal lathe is a bit overkill and hard to justify for the plastic modeler. No matter how useful. it's still a huge outlay.

 

 

[perdu]

I am having interesting times coping with the E6000 gobbing up in the tube opening but careful handling seems to work with the bunged up pieces.

 

The lathe is way beyond my requirements, sadly.

[giemme]

Alan and Bill, you are both wise men.

 

But I keep thinking I want a lathe....

 

 

Ciao 

[hendie]

1 hour ago, perdu said:

I am having interesting times coping with the E6000 gobbing up in the tube opening but careful handling seems to work with the bunged up pieces.

 

The lathe is way beyond my requirements, sadly.

 

I used to buy the large tubes and suffered from the same issue Bill, I now buy the small 4 packs.

The solvent off gases very quickly so I now have two methods:  I either squeeze a small amount from the tube  and replace the cap as quickly as possible, or, squeeze a small amount and use a toothpick to slice off the glob, rolling the toothpick at the same time. Cap back on as quick as possible once again.

 

It worked great sticking the nose on to the fuselage, but I'm testing it's limits now by gluing the three undercarriage components together - just a small surface area on each, but there will still be cutting and filing to do, so we'll see how well it performs on that task

 

 

[RichieW]

Great update Hendie, I have been contemplating a lathe too but that can't happen while we live in a pokey little house with no outside workshop. 

 

Yours has been brilliant for the undercarriage legs, they look really neat and refined. 

 

E6000 has proved really useful in my project. That was a useful note I took from your Vampire slaying days. 👌

 

Richie

[Paul J]

There is a right old load of heavy engineering and equipment going in to this model. Amazing work.

[Paul J]

Just thought.... maybe when its done AIrfix could be invited along so they can LIDAR it and produce new toolings for the Whirlwind in 72nd and 48th

[hendie]

On 7/4/2021 at 3:14 PM, giemme said:

But I keep thinking I want a lathe....

 

Go on Giorgio, you know you want to...  

 

On 7/4/2021 at 3:49 PM, RichieW said:

Great update Hendie, I have been contemplating a lathe too but that can't happen while we live in a pokey little house with no outside workshop. 

Yours has been brilliant for the undercarriage legs, they look really neat and refined. 

E6000 has proved really useful in my project. That was a useful note I took from your Vampire slaying days. 👌

Richie

 

it has it's uses - not for everything, but it does come in handy at times.

 

12 hours ago, Paul J said:

There is a right old load of heavy engineering and equipment going in to this model. Amazing work.

 

thanks Paul

 

3 hours ago, Paul J said:

Just thought.... maybe when its done AIrfix could be invited along so they can LIDAR it and produce new toolings for the Whirlwind in 72nd and 48th

 

Yeah.... if only the mainstream producers were interested in helos.  Sadly that is not the case.

 

Now, where was I?    Oh yes, sanding.

The milliput worked out well once again.  It didn't take long to knock off the non Whirlwind shaped excess.  The trick was to try and keep the edges between the filter and the fuselage as a straight line.  That was harder than just getting the general shape in the ballpark.  I think I did a decent job on the sides, but the top edge was a bit harder to get that clean sharp edge and I'm not sure I succeeded.  I have a plan though...

 

 

The question was - what would it look like under paint.

Cue primer.  Starboard side

 

 

Port side

 

 

Then from the front.  I still have some slight symmetry issues, but I could work at this for a year and never get it perfect so I've decided to keep moving on.  I think once it's all covered in greeblies, and has it's coat of many, well, three colors on that it won't be as noticeable. (that's plan A!)

 

 

Now back to that hornets nest that is the undercarriage. I've spent a long, long time just staring at this and trying to figure out the best plan of attack.  Without doubt, the best plan of attack is just to go ahead and 3D print the darned thing, but that's not what this build is about - or so I keep reminding myself.

I contemplated trying to solder this in situ, but one of the legs is a solid rod, and that takes a lot of heat before the solder will play nicely.  Ideally I would use the little gas torch, but, in such proximity to a big chunk of plastic?    Nope.  Not gonna happen - I'm way too clumsy for that to work.

In the end I decided to glob on some E6000 which I wish had a much catchier name, and left it overnight.

 

 

In fact I did both of them.  In for a penny and all that...

It took an absolute age to get both assemblies symmetrical, parallel, aligned linearly and all that geometric stuff.

 

 

Getting both axles horizontal was a lot harder than it looks and one of them ended up at a slight slant.

 

 

After this I removed both undercarriage legs - and the E6000 held.  I was pleasantly surprised.  However, it did do what it said on the tin, and was still slightly flexible.  I trimmed off the excess E6000 with a sharp blade, and it became even flimsier - but it still held.  Kudos to the glue for that, but I decided that I wanted a stronger bond, so one way or another I had to solder it.

With the legs in place, and wrapped as much as I could in wet kitchen towel, I brought out the soldering iron (still too scared to try the gas torch).  The result was not pretty - but at this stage it doesn't need to be - it just has to be solid.

 

 

Some filing, carving and 10 minutes later it all fell apart in my hands - not surprising really as I just wasn't getting enough heat into the join.  Nothing for it but to do the whole lot over again.  This time I got as much solder as I could on the join - it was ugly!  Then I spent another twenty minutes or so fixing up various clamps and wotnots to hold the three components steady in relation to each other - only then did I hit it with the gas torch!  (and forgot to take any shots)

However, once that was done, I cleaned up the excess solder and trimmed the axle tubes.  Not particularly pretty but the worst of it will be hidden behind the mainwheel.

 

 

Once I had figured out the methodology, the second one went a lot quicker.

 

 

Both legs assembled.  There will still be a bit of trimming to do once I get to the stage of adding the mainwheels, but at this stage I am happy with how its gone.  There's a few greeblies to add to the legs but by this time I had had enough of them for the day.   

 

 

It was time to get out the greeblies.  To be honest it probably wasn't, but I keep reminding myself that this is a fun build and I've decided not to get too worked up about the little things. As long as it ends up looking somewhat akin to a Whirlwind I'll be happy - especially considering what I started out with.

The WW has a bunch of triangular shaped strengthening spars along the tail boom which I needed to replicate.  I had some brass angle which was ideal, but the thought of trying to bond a very long, very thin edge of brass to plastic had me in shock. So I bought some plastic triangular rod instead.  This was the smallest I could find and it doesn't look to be too out of scale.  The plastic angle is equilateral when it should have been isosceles but I won't tell anyone. 

First up was the long spar down the tail boom - much taping and moving about to get it to look right, and in the right location.  As it's downright impossible to take a measurement from a 2D view and translate it onto a measurement on a tapered conical surface, in the end I just winged it.

 

 

It was so much fun I went ahead and did more.

 

 

Two more added to the underside, and I made up the mysterious box structure from some thick card and some C channel.  The box is only resting there at the moment. The top ledge of the C channel was a bit thick so I want to sand it down a touch before I fit the box.

 

 

Last few greeblies for the day were some fluting around the bottom of the tail and two strengthening panels for the horizontal stabilizers.

 

 

It did get a bit grubby there as I got some TET on my digits so there will be some clean up needed though it shouldn't be too difficult.   Looking at these photos makes me think that the triangular rod may be over scale, but I think I'll have to wait to see it under paint.  The starkness of the white may be confusing my aging eyesight.  And if it is over-scale... I'm at a loss as that was the smallest rod I could find.   

 

Next episode: More greebling I hope

 

 

 

 

[Andwil]

55 minutes ago, hendie said:

The plastic angle is equilateral when it should have been isosceles but I won't tell anyone. 

Case of scalene creep?

 

 

Marvellous work here, really enjoying watching along.

 

AW

[Pete in Lincs]

That triangular rod, I may NEED some. Perhaps a swipe with a rough object might reduce it's height a little?

It looks okay in the pictures though, and a coat of paint should help it blend in anyway.

[giemme]

Nose looking spot on under the primer coat.

Main legs beautifully rendered.

Greebling suitably greebled, you left us wanting more.

 

Ball in the park, as they say over there  

 

 

 

Ciao

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Nice legs, shame about the boat race….

[SafetyDad]

Brilliant, simply brilliant. 

 

Skills far beyond my expertise - that brass undercarriage is exceptional!

 

SD

[heloman1]

Neat work with the nose,  u/c and strengthening strips. Starting to look like  a Whirlwind.

 

Colin