28 Sqn Whirlwind: A highly detailed, shake and bake kit

[Fritag]

I was right.  It is.  Great multimedia modelling.

[perdu]

42 minutes ago, hendie said:

they have no place in a stealthy and sublime flying machine such as the Whirlwind

I wish to announce herein that no other flying machine within which I have never flown has as much of my affection as the Whirlwind.

 

Just saying for any who might have an aspersion to cast if the whim takes them.

 

Just saying.

 

Alan the work you have done here is excellent, the seats?

 

Like opening a packet of larger Airwaves Whirlwind etch and being shocked, yes shocked to find they are actually like the real things.

 

Loving the Hendie Brassworks but I am not as convinced by the underside carbuncle.

 

I refer the house to the picture of the recently restored to flight HAR 10.

 

The underside carbuncle is clearly more rectangular than the one drawn on the plans.  Simply having rounded corners but not as massive a curvy bit as the drawing.

 

Far more like Revell's offering, in dire need of improving as it was.

 

 

I have been loving Whirlwinds as long as I can remember, but I don't know whether or not that drawing refers to the earlier variants.

 

Something about the drawing is nagging at me...

 

Sorry amigo.

[perdu]

My favourite RAF book at the moment is Borneo Boys, here for fun is why I really have to get ahold of another Whirly

 

Isn't she a beauty in green and greys all glossy and proud huh?

 

 

 

 

OK I am off just couldn't resist the WW again.

[Fritag]

11 minutes ago, perdu said:

Just saying for any who might have an aspersion to cast if the whim takes them.

Too late 

I am awfully fond of the Wessex if that’s any mitigation?

 

And I’m prepared to plead prejudice born of ignorance and a blinkered upbringing if that’s further mitigation?

 

In the alternative I was only questioning the sublimeness of it’s performance as a flying machine without questioning its fitness as a deserving receptacle of affection as as a flying machine.

 

(The lawyer in me is very pleased with that last one) 

Am I forgiven Bill? 

 

[perdu]

Migod I wish I had gone in that day when we should have been doing English...

 

But beans on toast and a cuppa for a tanner were a massive draw at the cafe (near Brindley Place in modern Brum, but not then!)

 

Forgiveness?

 

How can I consider that when I looky here at this picture of me and my lovely Whirly

 

Back when Pontius was a pilot I assisted my mate Gordon with controlling our cadets on summer camp.  (I was thinner then, much much younger too)

 

We were scooted out of 186 soon after this picture was taken as she had work to do in a hurry and our Air-exp trip was cancelled by a live shout and an aeroplane going tech.

 

( A common experience for me in the seventies, the previous camp at Wattisham resulted in a promised ride in a T4 getting cancelled by funny fuelly smells where they weren't wanted. Who knew?)

 

And back to the story, as a confirmed heli-mad person I was more peeved  that we didn't fly WW than the Lightning a year earlier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But as you are a mate I will let you off with that warning above. 

[Pete in Lincs]

Great update and lovely filling on the back end. 

Nice nose too!

[Head in the clouds.]

Superb tip on the micro drilling to stop the (oooh) lovely brass from buckling.

 

That tail transition is superb, Milliput nightmares my......as I was saying, a very informative and productive update.

 

Is your Alclad primer a newer bottle of the SMA 60ml baby bottle size or the Newcastle Brown 250ml old size? I have a bottle of 60ml grey and white primer but am loathe to use them after my Sea King experience.

[RichieW]

What a brilliant update, I know booger all about the WW but I know great modelling when I see it! Taken many notes on handling brass, some great ideas I will shamelessly steal! 

 

Richie

[hendie]

7 hours ago, Fritag said:

I was right.  It is.  Great multimedia modelling.

 

is that lawyer-speak for making it up as I go along?

 

6 hours ago, perdu said:

Loving the Hendie Brassworks but I am not as convinced by the underside carbuncle.

 

I refer the house to the picture of the recently restored to flight HAR 10.

 

The underside carbuncle is clearly more rectangular than the one drawn on the plans.  Simply having rounded corners but not as massive a curvy bit as the drawing.

 

<snip>

 

I have been loving Whirlwinds as long as I can remember, but I don't know whether or not that drawing refers to the earlier variants.

 

Something about the drawing is nagging at me...

 

Sorry amigo.

 

Not a problem at all Bill. I know that when you speak up it's for good reason.

I agree that in some cases, the drawings are very suspect, and the drawing greeblies in many cases do not match up with photographic evidence. 

Regarding the expectant carbuncle on the undersides: As you know, helicopters are not normally known for their affectionate nature, however, this one in Hong Kong, and I believe a 28 Sqn offspring, decided to roll over for a tummy rub by Alphonso the umbrella carrying rigger.

Even though the photo is not of the best quality, you can still see that the bulge is not rectangular, having angled/tapered and rounded ends.   The taper is nowhere near as sharp as depicted on the drawings tho' and I took that into account when shaping the carbuncle.

 

 

Any idea what the black hole adjacent to the stbd front undercarriage leg is?  The best photos I've found so far appear to show some kind of tubular (pipe?) protruding from the hole

 

5 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Great update and lovely filling on the back end. 

 

thanks Pete.  You're just trying to entice Ced back in here aren't you?

 

4 hours ago, Head in the clouds. said:

Is your Alclad primer a newer bottle of the SMA 60ml baby bottle size or the Newcastle Brown 250ml old size? I have a bottle of 60ml grey and white primer but am loathe to use them after my Sea King experience.

 

The alclad I have is in the 4oz plastic bottle.  I'm definitely going off Alclad as I am convinced they have some serious quality control issues. I may have to look at alternative primers very soon.

 

3 hours ago, RichieW said:

What a brilliant update, I know booger all about the WW but I know great modelling when I see it!

 

Got a link Richie?  I'd love to see some of this great modeling you talk about    (thanks btw)

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

So that's where we left Alphonso. I wonder if he's still waiting....

 

Ref the black hole, The Wessex had a couple of round fibreglass access panels on the belly IIRC. Access to fuel system pipework I think.

Yours seems not to have the underside colour up to it's edges, as if a panel has been removed.

Could this picture be later in the day, after everything has been switched off and drained while they waited for a crane?

And, did it trip over that yellow chock? I never did like those springloaded metal chocks, they could bite!

 

As for @CedB, He's been very quiet of late. Could be he's plotting something....

[giemme]

15 hours ago, Fritag said:

Great multimedia modelling.

Agreed! I'm almost speechless   

 

Ciao

[perdu]

M'lud the defence apologises and withdraws its previous assertion, blaming pharmaceutical influences on the mental state of the witness.

 

"I've had a bad back"

 

Mind you when the Navy refuses to help claiming bespoke bottom treatments for its  tawdry repose to the request for help, what can a chap do?

 

Happy to withdraw my assertion when in the act of reading about the works of my favourite Aviation Artist it becomes obvious that Frank knows.

 

 

Whilst searching for helpful photos this appeared.

 

 

 

Has the kit builder had a problem with the undercart legs?

 

I was having similar difficulty at first with my last Whirly, but got there in the end.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Long overdue catch-up, and the work continues to be sublime.  I too love the Whirly (though I’m mighty glad I never had to fly one!) - but I confess that I am one who believes that the rhinoplasty required to accommodate a single Gnome definitely ruins the previously distinguished profile.  Whirlies should have round noses, not bulgy ones.

 

P.S. That photo of a younger Bill has definitely brightened my morning

[Brandy]

On 6/21/2021 at 8:28 PM, Fritag said:

The lawyer in me.....

ooh err missus!

As for the fitter with the brolly, I'm sure I've seen him in a Spike Milligan sketch!

 

Oh yes, very impressive brassery and rhinoplasty there Alan. I'm looking forward to seeing the end result of all that milliput and sanding.

 

Ian

[perdu]

41 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

 

 

P.S. That photo of a younger Bill has definitely brightened my morning

Brightened mine too, look how slim/skinny I was.

[Lewis95]

Very impressive work! Apologies for missing out on several updates. I got stuck over in Audaxland as some fool put a lovely plane on display but didn't arrange any transport! 

 

Just a quick question, you keep mentioning an abbreviation when you talk about sanding. What does it stand for? Or is it just gibberish? 😜

 

[hendie]

5 hours ago, Lewis95 said:

Just a quick question, you keep mentioning an abbreviation when you talk about sanding. What does it stand for? Or is it just gibberish? 😜

 

 

I assume you mean the SIHRSC and not the rest of my gibberish?

This comes from the Sage of Brumm himself, our esteemed Perdu. It stands for Six Inch, Half Round, Second Cut - a file.  A very useful tool in the modelers arsenal for disembowelling errant plastic of all religions, along with metals and whatever else stands in the way of your masterpiece.  

A worthy investment along with a "card" to keep it clean and hungry. (A card is a special type of wire brush for cleaning files)

 

 

[hendie]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:01 AM, Pete in Lincs said:

Ref the black hole, The Wessex had a couple of round fibreglass access panels on the belly IIRC. Access to fuel system pipework I think.

Yours seems not to have the underside colour up to it's edges, as if a panel has been removed.

Could this picture be later in the day, after everything has been switched off and drained while they waited for a crane?

 

Good guess but I don't think so Pete.    The best photo I have found so far is this one from Nabe3's excellent website

 

http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/images8/1000waWw-21.jpg

 

I don't know why the photo isn't showing, but the link should work.  That shot shows what appears to be some kind of pipe, exhaust, intake, vent, duct thingy sticking slightly out of the bottom.

I think without further evidence I'm just going to model it as a protruding tube

 

 

 

[perdu]

Looks right to me, thanks for linking that site H, lovely photography, the guy's a genius.

[hendie]

I agree Bill, his Wessex photos are some of the best around.  He really take shots with the modeler in mind - some very useful details and lots from various angles. I have been using his site as reference for years

[Pete in Lincs]

That was the picture I picked out too! I'm not sure what the tinware is either though.

There is a circular panel next to it held on by a few screws. But I don't think It's the same mark as the one you're building?

 

3 hours ago, hendie said:

I'm just going to model it as a protruding tube

Snort! (I'm just standing in for @CedB as he seems to be off his feed.

[perdu]

2 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

But I don't think It's the same mark as the one you're building?

 

That picture is of the HAR10 in Hendon, I know it well and its local inhabitant Cierva, the Sycamore and over there in the distance the Queen's Flight Wessex, definitely the 10 which the Perfessor here is building.

 

My ancient knees forbid me to ever get that low and inquisitive I wish they didnt, so many photos I need but don't have.

 

Until Alan revealed this magical source.

[hendie]

Either there is a lot of mislabeling going on, which isn't surprising given the internet, or the HAR10 was a mish-mash of mods and varying states.  I'll just have to resign myself to the fact that this is not going to be an accurate build by any means, rather, a best guess at a HAR10 of 28 Sqn, sometime in HK.  I have about 5, maybe 6 photos of 28 Sqn WW's, but none of them are of great quality - that one I posted up above is one of the best, so I am just going to have to interpret the photos as best I can.

 

Progress has been progressing, and lego has been lego'd.  There's the beginnings of a tropical fit nose in there somewhere.  I was a bit concerned with the silicone - it seemed to have much greater viscosity than the stuff I've used previously, but it cured so that was heartening.

 

 

The following day, this appeared, leaving a nice resin-ready cavity

 

 

which was soon filled with the magic juice.  

 

 

and about half an hour later we have one of these!   The resin cured in about 5 minutes, but it took me the remainder of the time to dremel-clone out the back end to fit over the floor and some other gubbinses I have in the fuselage. A promising start.

The fit on the port side isn't quite as good but nothing a bit of filler won't sort out.

 

 

On the first attempt I got a reasonable result although I did appear to have a bunch of bubbles on the upper side - so I had another few attempts.  After this one I left a stirring stick in the cavity and poured the resin down the stick into the cavity in an attempt to remove the bubbles. Also, partially filling the cavity then rolling the mold around to make sure the resin got to all corners etc.

 

 

None of my later attempts were any better. huh?  What was confusing was that the bubbles were always on the same face - the upper side of the nose.  I then examined the mold more closely and guess what?  Yup, loads of small bubbles in the silicone mold.  That viscosity had bitten me.  On the Port, Stbd, and lower sides, which had an almost vertical orientation when the mold was being cast, had almost no bubbles, but on the top side of the nose, which was angled in the mold, the silicone had trapped a bunch of air bubbles. Damn.  You would think that having those bubbles in the silicone would have produced lots of little bumps on the resin instead of voids but my theory is that the resin was too viscous to weep into the holes, and the exothermic reaction of the resin curing heated up the air trapped in the holes, expanding it to create all those bubbles on the finished part.

There wasn't enough silicone left to cast another mold so I decided to run with what I have. (this is old school right?)  A few coats of automotive primer and some sanding later brought us to this stage, which doesn't look too bad at all.  All those dark grey spots are a bit misleading, as they are really small undulations in the surface as opposed to full blown bubbles

 

 

So another application of automotive filler/primer followed and the part is now looking pretty good.  Given that this is still to be attached to the fuselage and then there will be a lot more filling and sanding to come, I reckon this is good enough to be moving on with.

 

 

In between the molding, resin-ing, filling and so on I started to feed the WW some greebles and once again I drilled another hole in the wrong place. That errant hole was filled with some runner and sanded back, then re-drilled with hopefully, the correct location.  The two channels up front were made from some H beam where I just filed off one side of the H to leave a U channel.  The two jacking points in the channel are some left over brass nuts and bolts I had lying around, but at this scale they look the part.

 

 

Unfortunately, I can't go too far with the greebling as there is still a bucket load of plastic dust to be made with this when the nose goes on, so I don't want to add detail I'm going to be destroying in the next few sessions. Therefore, alternative entertainment had to be found - in the shape of that tubular sticky-outy-thingy that we're all aware of but the purpose of which, nobody knows. 

Cue the brass tubery.   

I found some of a suitable diameter but the wall thickness was too great at this scale, so I rotated the tube'tween thumb and fingers whilst holding an old blade inside the tube with my other hand - an easy way to scrape the edge down making it appear as if it is a thin walled tube. - yeah, the other one is what I started with. It really is quite simple and effective.

 

 

Once I had the tube finished, I turned down a small piece of aluminum rod as a holder (and provide alignment) for the tube

 

 

Which then got E6000'd onto a chunk of scrap plastic inside the fuselage.  I was careful to make sure I did not glue the brass tube at this point as...

 

 

I can remove it and fit it later once the paint job has been done on the airframe.  That aluminum boss allows me to simply drop the tube in from the bottom later and know that it will align with the hole.

 

 

The tube was then cleaned with wire wool and dipped in the blackening solution for a few seconds, then washed off and given a quick rub with brown boot polish

 

 

Then once all the hard work is done it will only take a few seconds to fit and have everything in Whirlwind shape and Westland fashion.  (The outer ring is some of the PE left over from the Vampire build)

 

 

Lewis95 asked above about the SIHRSC and I mentioned that it was an invaluable modeling tool - another great tool, maybe not used quite so often, but invaluable when it's needed is this step down/up drill.  They normally come in sets of three and are pretty reasonably priced.  I find them great for opening up holes gradually to get to where I need it. I always use it by hand and if you're careful, you can also created stepped holes - I think you can just see the step inside the light opening

 

 

This was just a trial run to see how effective the final result may be.  I used some aluminum tape domed over the back end of a paint brush to use as a reflector.  The reflector then sat inside the hole resting on the step, which was deep enough to allow me to fit a lens over the reflector, and a PE ring to finish it all off.

 

 

and looking at that photo now makes me think I had the darned hole in the right place to begin with.  Oh well.  That's what I get for playing with old kits

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

2 hours ago, hendie said:

Oh well.  That's what I get for playing with old kits

Hours and hours of fun and underground shelter from that nasty thing that's going around.

[giemme]

Yet another impressive update, Alan     

 

You definitely need a vacuum machine, though....    

 

Ciao