28 Sqn Whirlwind: A highly detailed, shake and bake kit

[John_W]

It might be over riveted, but at least they seem to be following the real aircraft, unlike the Airfix "graph paper" pattern.

[Terry1954]

Well page two can't be bad for my timing at least. An excellent choice of subject, but the raw materials look a bit wanting.

 

This could be long one, but I know I'll enjoy it even if you don't!

 

Terry

[Max Headroom]

I have an extremely vague recollection of seeing this kit. Does it have floats?

 

Trevor

[matti64]

2 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

I have an extremely vague recollection of seeing this kit. Does it have floats?

 

Trevor

Some issues of it include the floats  and/or the figures

[heloman1]

Oh Alan, I nearly thought you were gong to build a stiff wing Whirlwind! That would have not peaked my interest but this , you've got me well hooked. I have four in the stash. One just built in SAAF markings for our museum display.

Yes the S-55 kit is ages old and I may think I remember it being released. it's accurate in outline and the way the panels are overlaid towards the rear. The rivets take on a life of their own.

I like the way you are tackling the project, it certainly need some TLC!

Popcorn at the ready.

 

Colin

[woody37]

Oh, just come across this and pulled my seat up ready. Do enjoy seeing old kits getting this treatment. I think the faint rivets left after sanding look spot on.

[Gondor44]

Just catching up on the last week's postings and found this! Hope you don't mind me pulling up a chair and taking notes for the few 1/72 kits I have in the stash which includes one earmarked to be an HAR.10.

Do you have the Warpaint book on the subject? It looks quite decent to me.

 

Gondor

[Brandy]

Blimey, more self-flagellation, modelling style!

The schadenfreude has kicked in, you'll find me at the bar with Bill!

 

Ian

[hendie]

Blimey!  This Whirlwind thing appears to have caught the imagination of the BM hive dunnit?

30 posts since my last update... I don't think I've ever had that kind of response before.  At least not on a family friendly website 

 

Mail Call...

 

On 5/3/2021 at 1:41 AM, CedB said:

Nice start hendie - I'm in!

 

of course you are dear boy, there's dismemberment ahead

 

On 5/3/2021 at 1:45 AM, Fritag said:

moi aussi.

‘twill be enjoyable.  This side of the Atlantic anyway 

 

 

 

On 5/3/2021 at 2:05 AM, Hamden said:

Another Hendie helicopter (re)build, looking forward to watching you work your magic on this one!

   Stay safe         Roger

 

thanks Roger. It will be interesting to see what happens as this progresses, cos at this point, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing or how I am going to accomplish this

 

On 5/3/2021 at 2:45 AM, Pete in Lincs said:

Here we go again! I'm along for the ride. Build me a loadie seat would you. please. 

This is another one that was always on my to do list, but......

 

I recently finished reading a book called Borneo Boys*. It follows the RAF out there and their Whirlwind operations in support of the defence forces.

It also tells the tale of newly qualified RAF Helicopter pilots, aged on average around 22, who were posted straight out there.

A reoccurring theme was, 'They're young so they'll learn fast (they had to!) and, if you don't tell them it's near impossible, they'll just do it. (They did).

In the hot and high conditions the piston engined Whirlwinds and the early turbine ones were woefully undepowered.

It wasn't until the HAR 10's arrived that they had something that worked properly.

It was alluded to that the '10's' were built in the USA. Someone wrote that the build quality was better than the earlier Airframes.

And that leads us back to this build, in the USA. See what I did there?

 

It looks better sanded down, and don't forget the seat pans tilted, like the Wessex, for apparent cabin access (Ha Ha).

The Parker Knolls have got to go (to a model museum display, how to get it so wrong?).

I look forward to your struggles with trepidation and a large scotch in my hand for the scary bits.

BTW, You didn't mention blades?

 

 

*Highly recommended. IF you can find a copy.

 

 

I managed to find a few walkrounds and was surprised at just how closely related to the Wessex the WW is.

 

On 5/3/2021 at 3:42 AM, RichieW said:

This is going to be fun to watch, seeing all those massive carbuncles made me feel quite nostalgic!

 

those young 'uns today with all their digital bits n bobs just don't know what they're missing do they?   Hyper sensitivity, allergies, multiple lacerations, and sanding the skin off your fingertips... all part of the afternoons enjoyment

 

On 5/3/2021 at 4:05 AM, perdu said:

It has a certain rustic charm so of course you know I will be along, chivvying or otherwise encouraging Les.

 

and that rustic charm is what is attracting me to this kit Bill.  I reckon there's a vaguely Whirlwind shaped object hiding in there somewhere... maybe even a HAR10

 

On 5/3/2021 at 6:38 AM, Biggles87 said:

Looks a bit ‘ Lindberg-ish ‘ to me, especially the silver plastic.

John

 

I think this is the equivalent of Hi-Tech Lindberg

 

On 5/3/2021 at 6:56 AM, Graham T said:

Had me going there! All excited about a nicely engineered & detailed 1/48 Whirlwind kit…….then I read on!😂

 

me too!

 

On 5/3/2021 at 7:58 AM, Martian said:

Older than you? Its even older than @general melchett! I converted this kit into a Whirlwind from HMS Protector back in 1988. If you treat it as a vacform that has been cut from its backing sheet, it doesn't seem so bad. I have another in the stash that I fancy doing as a Royal Canadian Navy bird. Will I never learn? Clearly not.

 

Stupid of Mars 👽

 

Surely you mean armor plated vacform Martian?  This think requires chainsaws to remove it from the backing sheet

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:15 AM, JohnT said:

Trying to be helpful and follow along this masterclass of silk pursing from a box of sows ears I did think that you could abandon the idea of a RAF bird and go for a Navy one explaining the thickness of the walls as armour against 5 inch navy shells 

 

I have the Revell version which lurks in the back of the stash daring me to be so stupid as to take it on. Stupid in my case - not having your skills set to fight it with. But everyday a school day so have desk and chair, sitting upright with chalk and slate and taking notes feverishly

 

Go on John... you know you want to...

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:25 AM, bentwaters81tfw said:

Hmmm.... I have 3 of these in the stash. Plans. 22 Sqn ASR,  Ark Royal plane guard, and HMS Protector, when Mel* finally gets his decals sorted.

Almost started the 22 sqn bird this year, but maybe later.

 

This will be interesting.

 

 

*Not going to happen as Mel's death has just been announced.

 

Sorry to hear of Mel's passing. He seems to have made a large impression in a lot of folks here

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:26 AM, AdrianMF said:

It looks very similar in some details to the Airfix S55 of 1956. I wonder if it served as "inspiration"?

 

Regards,

Adrian

 

as in it's vaguely tadpole shaped with a spinny thing on top?

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:33 AM, shortCummins said:

you can get the book on Amazon...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Borneo-Boys-Helicopter-Indonesia-Confrontation-ebook/dp/B00HESTD36/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Borneo+Boys&qid=1620045094&s=books&sr=1-1

 

noted and I'll try and lay my hands on a copy, thanks

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:33 AM, matti64 said:

An excellent start. A Revell H-19/HO-4S, S-55 Whirlwind(yes they did a Whirlwind Issue) is always something to get excited about.

 

too many people getting excited on my behalf.  I need some excitement of my own

 

On 5/3/2021 at 8:48 AM, Lord Riot said:

A 1/48 Whirlwind! I didn’t know such a thing existed. If only it was a HAR10 I’d try to find one immediately. As it is I’ll enjoy watching this build and hope that one day Airfix or Hasegawa decide that there is a glaring lack of 1970s/80s RAF helicopters in their catalogue.

Great start on the kit.

 

It IS a HAR10.  It's just being coy at the moment.

 

On 5/3/2021 at 9:35 AM, The Spadgent said:

And I thought you were going for something modern. Pfft. Sucker for punishment this one. 😮.

Seems like you’re having fun Mind soo I’ll shut me chops. 🤗
I have an old 1/72 Airfix one of these. She is also covered from head to toe in bibbles. Always the same with bibbles. Either ridding you have em or adding if you don’t.  Great start dear boy. I’ll pull up a stool of course. 😇

 

Johnny

 

It's well on the way to being dismembered, dissected, and debibbled Johnny

 

On 5/3/2021 at 3:34 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Good spot! Well worth it. 

I forgot to mention, when their Borneo tours were over, some of the pilots & groundcrew went over to Kai Tak. 

I think at least one senior type went to 28 Sqn.

The book is about ten years old. Back then, at least two of those junior pilots were somewhat older & running the RAF Helicopter sims!

 

And, BTW, our very own @bootneck was there being ferried around to do jungle border patrols with 40 Commando. Respect!

 

didn't I speak to you earlier?  Trying to get a toofer are we?

ta for the info Pete, and gratitude to Mr Bootneck

 

 

On 5/3/2021 at 4:22 PM, Space Ranger said:

"Revell 1955" it is. Armed with a tube of Revell's "Type 'S'" cement, I built the float version in one afternoon. I had received it for my 9th birthday in September 1955. It's still one of my favorite kits from that era, and can built into a fine model.

 

who builds these fine models? got a name?   I tackled the old Hawk Lysander and really enjoyed the process.  It's a nice challenge bringing out the best in these old kits

 

On 5/3/2021 at 5:18 PM, Shorty84 said:

Hi hendie,

 

glad I've found your WIP as I have the same kit in my stash (the Arctic HO4S-1 boxing), moulded in lovely, garish red

Actually, I really like the surface detail on the kit. While the rivets could be finer, one can see that the designers put a lot of work into it to create realistic details like overlapping joints. In fact, I think the surface details are more realistic than many more recent helicopter kits. The only challenge will be to preserve them when filling is required.

My plan is to build a Yugoslav machine (HAR.5 variant) so I will follow your improvements with vital interest.

 

Will you recreate the angled tail boom? I have thought long about that but decided to "cheat" and call it good as this would have meant to destroy all those lovely surface details. Drives the AMS part of me crazy but this time I will ignore to the voices in my head

 

Cheers

Markus

 

Dunno about recreate, but I'm certainly going to have a bash at the angled tail boom.  It may end in tears

 

On 5/4/2021 at 2:07 AM, giemme said:

There you are, @hendie.

 

You know you are helpless,  right?

 

 

Tagging along....

 

Ciao 

 

hey Giorgio, started that Fly biplane yet?

 

On 5/4/2021 at 3:35 AM, TheBaron said:

I give this another 36 hours tops before the brass tubing makes a showing.

If the Martian's going to cross-dress to build his one, you could frankly make a bit more of yourself here Alan.

Reap the whirlwind etc., etc....

 

Tsk Tsk, Martiuan gets angry when he has to put clothes on?   Some life forms he?

 

On 5/4/2021 at 3:47 AM, Max Headroom said:

I’m in!

You do like punishing yourself with these kits. Just think of it as a learning experience.

Trevor

 

Learning experience? For who?

 

On 5/4/2021 at 5:12 AM, John_W said:

It might be over riveted, but at least they seem to be following the real aircraft, unlike the Airfix "graph paper" pattern.

 

a certain sense of melancholy accompanied me during the removal of all those rivets

 

On 5/4/2021 at 7:16 AM, Terry1954 said:

Well page two can't be bad for my timing at least. An excellent choice of subject, but the raw materials look a bit wanting.

This could be long one, but I know I'll enjoy it even if you don't!

Terry

 

best you settle in then, this could take some time

 

On 5/4/2021 at 7:55 AM, Max Headroom said:

I have an extremely vague recollection of seeing this kit. Does it have floats?

Trevor

 

Floats, yes, as well as two aircrew with severe abdominal injuries and a man onna rope

 

On 5/4/2021 at 10:03 AM, matti64 said:

Some issues of it include the floats  and/or the figures

 

damn. I could just have waited...

 

On 5/4/2021 at 12:21 PM, heloman1 said:

Oh Alan, I nearly thought you were gong to build a stiff wing Whirlwind! That would have not peaked my interest but this , you've got me well hooked. I have four in the stash. One just built in SAAF markings for our museum display.

Yes the S-55 kit is ages old and I may think I remember it being released. it's accurate in outline and the way the panels are overlaid towards the rear. The rivets take on a life of their own.

I like the way you are tackling the project, it certainly need some TLC!

Popcorn at the ready.

 

Colin

 

Thanks Colin.  Four you say?  I have the number of a counselor when you're ready to open up

 

On 5/4/2021 at 2:16 PM, woody37 said:

Oh, just come across this and pulled my seat up ready. Do enjoy seeing old kits getting this treatment. I think the faint rivets left after sanding look spot on.

 

thanks Woody.  I don't know how long the faints will survive - there's going to be a lot of surgery going on here

 

4 hours ago, Gondor44 said:

Just catching up on the last week's postings and found this! Hope you don't mind me pulling up a chair and taking notes for the few 1/72 kits I have in the stash which includes one earmarked to be an HAR.10.

Do you have the Warpaint book on the subject? It looks quite decent to me.

 

Gondor

 

Not as yet but I may pick one up as the build progresses - assuming it does progress

 

3 hours ago, Brandy said:

Blimey, more self-flagellation, modelling style!

The schadenfreude has kicked in, you'll find me at the bar with Bill!

 

Ian

 

These old kits are the modeling equivalent of hair-shirts Ian, but if you wear them long enough you can get used to anything ('cept Fly, and Classic Airframes of course)

 

 

phew. That was long.

 

What's been going on since the last update? Well, mostly I have been making holes and filling in holes, and I've even been making holes in some of the filled in holes. 

In alignment with the modelers bible, I tried to use kit plastic to fill in/replace kit plastic.  This bulkhead appeared as a promising donor for some hole filling, namely the vents on the side of the fuselage which are not required for the HAR10

 

 

Some fettling and a dry fit later

 

 

Once happy with the fit, I dolloped TET around the edges, insert the new panel, then covered all the seams with runner gloop.

At this point I had to detour slightly from my original plan as I stumbled across some walkround photos which clearly showed the incestuous relationship the WW has with the Wessex - so close in fact that to the uninitiated, in some cases they could be mistaken for each other.  But we know better children, don't we?  Well, I do now

Moving on, in order to construct the insides, the first thing I need are the bulkheads.   I don't currently own a profile gauge so while I'm waiting on one to arrive, I did things the old fashioned way.

Grab some scrap plastic, fettle, dry fit, fettle some more and so on until you have the donor plastic fitting snugly on one side.  Wash, rinse and repeat with another scrap to do the other side, then grab some more scraps and slap on some super glue (probably the best use for cyano)

 

 

You now have a rough, okay, slightly better than rough profile of the interior walls.  Now grab a decent piece of plastic and simply transfer that outline to the new piece of styrene, and bobs yer uncle.

The same method was used to get the floor profile.  Supports were added to the inside of the WW to locate the interior surfaces

 

 

another quick dry fit shows things are lining up quite nicely inside.

 

 

greeble time.  With the forward bulkhead now in good shape, I started adding the various lumps, bumps, and wotsists

 

 

Then while doing another dry fit I spotted a self-induced oopsie!  Note the bulkhead protruding down from the top of the cabin door... maybe I shouldn't have been doing all my dry fitting on only the port side!

 

 

 

My first thoughts were - is the door in the right place? On checking, it appears the door is in fact in the correct position, as are most things.

I scaled the drawings up from 1/72 to check things out.  Now my approach may be slightly different than most.  Rather than simple scale up a 1/72 drawing to 1/48, I find two points I can use on the model as a datum, then using the same two points on the drawing, I scale it up to match.  Some may not agree but it works for me and takes into account any scaling issues on the original design as well as possible shrinkage of the molded part.  Overall, the kit appears quite accurate - to these drawings anyway - there are a couple of mismatches but I'll figure out if they annoy me and address them later if they do.  Given that this kit was designed and machined back in the early 1950's, this really is quite accurate

 

 

Anyway, the oopsie needs addressed

The fix was relatively easy - I cut off the entire lower section, sliced a few mm off the top end, glued it back together and reshaped the sides (cos there was detail at the top end that I wanted to keep)

 

 

I had a few enjoyable hours greebling the interior.  Those flutes on the forward bulkhead are rather overscale, but I only had 0.4mm half round to hand and didn't fancy waiting a few weeks for an alternative (I retain the right to change my mind later though).  I'm not sure they even make half round in 0.2mm width.  It would be a simple process just to go draw it up and print one out, but I started this build with the commitment to scratch build as much as possible, and so far I'm sticking to that. 

 

 

Things are looking a lot better inside now even though it's a bit heavy duty

 

 

The more I look at things though I think I may have made a mistake using kit parts as a template for the gearbox housing. - I think the floor of the gearbox area is too low.  That drop that you can see below the gearbox floor should be a lot longer.  

Fixing it shouldn't be too difficult, but I'm determined to keep enjoying this build so we'll see how far I can get before my OCD kicks in

 

You can see in this shot where the gearbox floor is located (as per the original kit parts).  I believe the gearbox floor is much closer to the window line and needs raised up.  I have been able to find any photos to confirm but the length of that down-hang from the floor would seem to confirm my suspicion

 

 

as an aside, look at all those lumps and dings on the interior in that shot above.  They will all have to be removed, including the locating lugs.

 

It's always good to have a plan isn't it?  I've been mulling over potential methods to obtain the 3 degree angle to the tail boom, and so far I've got nada. Nothing.

Therefore in the absence of a cunning plan, my cunning plan was to forge ahead blindly in the hope that something will rear it's ugly head in the future and provide me with some kind of misguided simplsitic absolutely idiot proof method of inducing the 3 degree down tilt and secure the tail boom to the rest of the airframe in absolute geometric perfection.

 

 

I'm not 100% certain but I don't think this is the way you are supposed to build kits... aren't they supposed to get bigger and more complex the further along the build you proceed?  I'm sure someone told me that once.

 

 

Looking at that photo made me laugh.  these are about the only parts of the kit I am going to use - if you remove that under-the-tail-boom fairing from the photo.

I lie - I'm probably going to use the rotor blades, after some serious modification, and maybe the tail rotor blade.  As for the undercarriage... I must remember to take a photo of the wheels next time around.  They are the most unwheel-like wheels I have ever came across. In fact when I first got the kit, I thought the wheels were missing.

 

Right, I'm off to find a cunning plan

 

 

 

 

 

[Max Headroom]

Phew! Not taking any prisoners are you?

 

Trevor

[Pete in Lincs]

Vicious. But, to be fair, it was asking for it. 

Lovely bulkheads, Guv. Heavy duty? Well, heavy duty is as heavy duty does. 

(Not sure what that means, but, it's early morning, raining (Saturday, so Natch) and I've only just had my toast.

I'm sure you'll soon solve, THE MYSTERY OF THE DROOPY TAILBOOM! Da da daaaaaaH!

[bentwaters81tfw]

Someone makes a set of replacement wheels - 3D printed IIRC. And he's in Uncle Sam Land. I bought two sets - then bought a third WW.

I will go hunting and report back on the culprit manufacturer.

 

Update: take a shufti on Scalemates. Wheels, cranked tailboom and full interior available from LoneStar plus others.

Edited May 8, 2021 by bentwaters81tfw

[Fritag]

5 hours ago, hendie said:

It would be a simple process just to go draw it up and print one out,

 

It’s gonna be hard to resist now you’ve got the tech..............

[perdu]

38 minutes ago, Fritag said:

 

It’s gonna be hard to resist now you’ve got the tech..............

Nah, course it ain't, he wants the pleasure of a real scratchbuild instead of the artificiality of a machine made 'thang'.

 

Stands to reason

 

Love those bulkhead bits Alan, have you found this view on your travels?

 

Looks as if you've found the nail and given its head a proper wallop to me

 

 

When I was making my US Marines one from the AIrfix (sense of humour required) Whirly I realised the cabin roof was curved up to where the gearbox sits, gave me a useful datum.

 

Anyway I am loving this, I have a few shots of the tailboom on the HAR10 in Hendon if you can use them too, including the hole underneath where the control rods run.

 

Say the word.

[giemme]

So you are deconstructing a kit in order to construct a model? That seems fairly logical... 👨‍🏭

 

Seriously great scratch building work so far, Alan  

 

Ciao 

[perdu]

It is logical, cutting off the Not Wanted On Voyage baggage early allows him to get at the nitty gritty quickly

 

Hendon has an entire main rotor set up on display Alan, I took a picture

 

 

No blades

 

This is the hole under the tail (this is all I am going to mess the thread up with)

 

 

Ah, cables not rods. I wasn't paying enough attention.

[RichieW]

Wow, I've never seen a kit getting such a thorough bashing! I love the confidence and commitment, looks like you're having a heck of a lot of fun with it too....Still taking notes!

 

Richie

[heloman1]

Excellent work Alan, as you say, it should be growing not shrinking. Yes I always thought the kit was accurate but once you work past the fuselage, that goes out of the window.

I'll wait and see what you do to get he tail boom droop! Yes the wheel are the worst.

It looks like two people tooled the kit, one for the fuselage and then another, who wasn't too interested for the rest!

Therapy, I have a box, six bottles of Pinotage. Better than a chat with a non modeller and fart cheaper!!!

 

Colin

[JohnT]

Oh I am enjoying this immensely over my morning coffees. Now I know how to make something out of the plastic in my box. I often get surprised that a lot of old kits do get the basic shapes remarkably accurate pre computers, lidar and you name it yet today’s manufacturers can get it spectacularly wrong with all the information and resources they have at a mouse click. 
 

Only one thing worrying me is that some bright spark at Trumpeter and friends will  see this topic thread and think all new kits should get modelled this way in future   Come to think on it if you look at some of Trumpeters B team subjects maybe they already have 

[CedB]

9 hours ago, hendie said:

there's dismemberment ahead

Aha, just my thing…

 

9 hours ago, hendie said:

…two aircrew with severe abdominal injuries and a man onna rope

Oooh, surgery! Man onna rope? Does this help?

 

Nice internals so far hendie. Good luck with the tail boom  

[Martian]

You are a bad Earthling Hendie, as a result of your great work, I am now turning my thoughts to where I put my kit and where the spare canopy I pulled all those years ago might be found. I have also ordered a new set of wheels from Res-Kit. All this even though I know perfectly well what awaits me.

 

Hopelessly Tempted of Mars 👽

[The Spadgent]

Greeblies look amazing that wall is special indeed. Super impressed. Also like the way you got the profile. I have never heard of that technique. Brilliant. 🙌

 

Johnny

[perdu]

18 hours ago, hendie said:

You can see in this shot where the gearbox floor is located (as per the original kit parts).  I believe the gearbox floor is much closer to the window line and needs raised up.  I have been able to find any photos to confirm but the length of that down-hang from the floor would seem to confirm my suspicion

 

 

From what I was able to make out when I did my research for my 1/72 scale Whirly the round roofed section behind  the canopy runs through under the gearbox with suitable stiffeners.

 

The canopy can be removed with a big spanner, or by a big spanner if you like, leaving the arch roofed fuselage behind

 

I have some pictures from the helicopter museum I think, of the separated 'canopy' being refurbished if you want them

 

 

So it wouldnt be a bad idea to follow the roof section from behind into the front section

[Martian]

14 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

I'm sure you'l soon solve, THE MYSTERY OF THE DROOPY TAILBOOM! Da da daaaaaaH!

Sounds more like a Scooby Doo plot than a model build!

 

Martian 👽

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I had no idea there had ever been a 1/48 Whirly, however old, be-rivetted or agricultural.  Definitely on my wish list, but in the mean time I shall join the queue at the (external, obvs) bar