1/72 - North American P-51D Mustang by Eduard - rumour confirmed

[Thomas V.]

21 hours ago, Dennis_C said:

It seems now it's more probable that eventually Eduard repackages Arma Hobby Mustangs. 

no no, they are quite adamant about their own tooling, scroll trough modelforum.cz and ipmsnymburk.com to see all the conversation, as for me, prefer Eduard to current Arma every day, not to say that Arma quality won't evolve.

[RidgeRunner]

On 11/20/2021 at 3:58 PM, Andre B said:

 

I don't think anyone suggested that for Arma Hobby concerning the P-51B. But we maybe can when it comes to the P-51D/K?

 

On 11/20/2021 at 1:51 PM, Tbolt said:

 

I complete agree. When Eduard released their 1/48th scale kit it was disappointing they didn't make this step considering it was released around the same time as the Airfix & Meng which both had panel lines in the wing (and rivets I believe in the case of Meng).

 

I surprised Arma haven't gone the filled root as well.

Sorry but I disagree. By including the panel lines it leaves options open for building the many post-WW2 airframes that had the putty removed or not replaced over time. If any model producer left them off we’d have modellers complaining about having to scribe the lines. Surely filling the few panel lines with, say, PPP is no real hardship? On my recent build I filled and cleaned off the PPP is a matter of half an hour!

 

Martin

 

Edit: apologies mods for getting in to chat rather than sticking to the intention of this forum 

[Graham Boak]

Except that panel lines between fixed panels simply aren't visible in 1/72.  As opposed to gaps around removable panels, and the gaps between moveable surfaces such as ailerons and even trim tabs.  If one leading manufacturer has realised the truth of this, so much the better.  The sooner this fad for solid black lines everywhere disappears, the better the models will look.

[Tbolt]

19 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

 

Sorry but I disagree. By including the panel lines it leaves options open for building the many post-WW2 airframes that had the putty removed or not replaced over time. If any model producer left them off we’d have modellers complaining about having to scribe the lines. Surely filling the few panel lines with, say, PPP is no real hardship? On my recent build I filled and cleaned off the PPP is a matter of half an hour!

 

Martin

 

Edit: apologies mods for getting in to chat rather than sticking to the intention of this forum 

 

It doesn't give you less options for doing post WWII aircraft, just like having the panel lines doesn't stop you doing WWII aircraft. If you need the panel lines then just scribe them in as they are fairly simple ones and would take no longer than filling and sanding unwanted lines.

 

To me the majority of Mustangs built are WWII airframes so that's how I would tool the kit.

[RidgeRunner]

That’s possibly true but I’d wager that many, like me, find filling and sanding etc to be easier and neater than scribing ;). I guess the ideal is to have two wing sets as has been said earlier.
 

Any way that’s probably enough of that. The mods might clamp down for veering off piste ;).

 

Martin

[Andre B]

12 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

 

Sorry but I disagree. By including the panel lines it leaves options open for building the many post-WW2 airframes that had the putty removed or not replaced over time. If any model producer left them off we’d have modellers complaining about having to scribe the lines. Surely filling the few panel lines with, say, PPP is no real hardship? On my recent build I filled and cleaned off the PPP is a matter of half an hour!

 

Martin

 

Edit: apologies mods for getting in to chat rather than sticking to the intention of this forum 

 

Well, you have Tamiya, Airfix, Hasegawa, Italeri, Academy to build if you wan't panel lines. Why not for once open up for an P-51D modell without those mentioned panellines?

 

/André 

[Graham Boak]

I already have (OK, not all of those, but do have other P-51s) and several of these do offer panel lines, if to various degrees of finesse.  All the more reason not to "open up" for a kit offering things I don't want in an over-engineered form.  (Separate argument, maybe.)   Judging from earlier subjects I suspect that the Eduard kit will actually be quite fine.  (Split infinitive - tough.)

 

I consider there is an important difference between things I don't want in 1/72 - detailed cockpit, for example - and things that detract from accuracy and realism.  It may well be necessary to make modifications to a model that has been simplified in some form to allow for production at a reasonable price, but shouldn't be necessary to have to spend time removing things that shouldn't be there.  To have a modelling fad showing itself in an individual modeller's approach to decoration is one thing, to have it expressed in tooling form is another.

[RidgeRunner]

Oops .... can of worms etc  Sorry. In the end it is about personal preference. I wold simply prefer the advantage of a new mould kit with the basis there, including the panel lines. What any of us do thereafter is up to us. 

[John Thompson]

3 hours ago, Andre B said:

 

Well, you have Tamiya, Airfix, Hasegawa, Italeri, Academy to build if you wan't panel lines. Why not for once open up for an P-51D modell without those mentioned panellines?

 

/André 

Within my experience, it's sometimes, maybe even often, easy to adapt wings from Manufacturer A's kit to Manufacturer B's kit. So, here's my crazy idea - Eduard, pick one of the above. Design your wings with no panel lines in such a way that whoever's panel-lined wings will be a direct replacement for yours. Thus, the modelbuilder can have his/her cake and also eat it, although he/she might have to buy two cakes to get one good one.

 

Plan B: Modelbuilders, make the adaptation yourselves. Are we modelbuilders or are we Devo?!

 

John

[Tbolt]

5 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

Oops .... can of worms etc  Sorry. In the end it is about personal preference. I wold simply prefer the advantage of a new mould kit with the basis there, including the panel lines. What any of us do thereafter is up to us. 

 

Yes it's personal preference, but all the kits have panel lines on the wing, there's not one kit that caters for people that don't want them.

 

[Piotr Mikolajski]

17 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

there's not one kit that caters for people that don't want them.

 

I'm afraid no one is going to get rid of details to satisfy 0.1% of potential buyers, when by depriving the kit of wing details they will lose many more customers who care about such fine thin panel lines.

[Tbolt]

1 hour ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

I'm afraid no one is going to get rid of details to satisfy 0.1% of potential buyers, when by depriving the kit of wing details they will lose many more customers who care about such fine thin panel lines.

 

Would they? Are you telling me if Eduard's 1/48th scale P-51D had an accurate filled wing ( making it more accurate for 95% of builds) they would have lost a lot of sales? Did they loose a lot by not having rivets on the wing?

 

I would prefer a filled wing, but it hasn't stopped buying the Eduard kit. If Eduard produce a nice kit, plenty of people are going to buy it either way.

[Piotr Mikolajski]

11 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

Would they? Are you telling me if Eduard's 1/48th scale P-51D had an accurate filled wing (making it more accurate for 95% of builds) they would have lost a lot of sales?

 

Surely the loss would be much greater than the gain from getting those customers who didn't buy the model because it has panel lines.

  

11 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

Did they loose a lot by not having rivets on the wing?

 

If there are any panel lines, at least there is something going on the wing. No rivets and no panel lines means a bare and boring wing. More realistic? Perhaps. Discouraging to many customers? Certainly. Many modellers are not interested in hyper-realism. They want to make the kit as they see it on YouTube or in modelling magazines. The panel lines should be visible, the rivets should be visible.

  

11 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

I would prefer a filled wing, but it hasn't stopped buying the Eduard kit.

 

That's the point. If you need the panel lines filled in, you can fill them in with putty.

 

1/72 is a scale where we make a ton of compromises, including those related to realism. If you stick fanatically to realism, models in this scale should not have parting lines or rivets at all, and in most cases not even panels for handling. How many people will buy such a "bare" model, if when announcing the next modelling novelties one can see how enthusiastically received are models with full riveting, with thin panel lines, with rich cockpit interior. This is also a point in a marketing campaign - you can show the level of attention to detail and superiority over competitors' products.

[Tbolt]

5 minutes ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

Surely the loss would be much greater than the gain from getting those customers who didn't buy the model because it has panel lines.

  

 

If there are any panel lines, at least there is something going on the wing. No rivets and no panel lines means a bare and boring wing. More realistic? Perhaps. Discouraging to many customers? Certainly. Many modellers are not interested in hyper-realism. They want to make the kit as they see it on YouTube or in modelling magazines. The panel lines should be visible, the rivets should be visible.

  

 

That's the point. If you need the panel lines filled in, you can fill them in with putty.

 

1/72 is a scale where we make a ton of compromises, including those related to realism. If you stick fanatically to realism, models in this scale should not have parting lines or rivets at all, and in most cases not even panels for handling. How many people will buy such a "bare" model, if when announcing the next modelling novelties one can see how enthusiastically received are models with full riveting, with thin panel lines, with rich cockpit interior. This is also a point in a marketing campaign - you can show the level of attention to detail and superiority over competitors' products.

 

A Mustang with a filled wing is hardly what I would call boring. But yes I think there are some modellers that need to look at real aircraft  rather than just trying to copy others when there's so much overshading/highlighting around now days and some modellers just think that's the way things should be done.

 

Yes you can fill panel lines and yes you can scribe panel lines. Some find one hard than the other, but the majority of the models built should have a filled wing and those modellers not so concerned with accuracy are they going to bother to scribe the panel lines in on a wing that shouldn't have them just because they think it needs more detail or not buy the kit at all?

 

Of course models are a comprising but that doesn't mean we should stop improving the accurate of kits. 

[Torbjorn]

I would have done the same if I were Eduard - I wager most buyers think lines look cool. And I’m saying that as someone who thinks accented panel lines look ridiculous even on non-puttied aircraft (picture yourself a normally all-white Boeing 747, but with stark black panel lines and shaded panelsc and you see what I see when I look at those cool models in magazines and commercials). Commercially it’s a no-brainer. Accurate-wings-people are maybe 1/100, and most of the people who care enough about that are going to buy it and fill in the lines anyway, whereas the opposite is hardly true.

 

It’s not that difficult to fill them in, certainly much easier than scribing accurately. And it’s probably going to have finer (ie thinner, smaller) lines than the Airfix trenches, better canopy solution and more options, which will make people like myself prefer the Eduard kit (presumably).

 

That said, if there was an otherwise equal kit with smooth wings I’d buy that 10 times out of 10.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Torbjorn

[Piotr Mikolajski]

4 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

Some find one hard than the other, but the majority of the models built should have a filled wing and those modellers not so concerned with accuracy are they going to bother to scribe the panel lines in on a wing that shouldn't have them just because they think it needs more detail or not buy the kit at all?

 

 

Modelling is a hobby and has many variations. Most are not at all concerned with fanatical accuracy and fidelity to the original, to make their kit look exactly like a plane reduced 1/xx times.

Most are concerned with assembling a kit straight out of the box, applying modelling chemistry straight from the bottle, and having an effect straight out of a modelling magazine.

 

This video has over 1.1 million views and over 22 thousand likes, and well over 600 thousand people have subscribed to this account.  And whether you like the model and the end result or not, this is what most modellers expect. And models are made for this majority.

 

 

 

[Cammer625]

I wonder how many people even know about and then care about smooth wings.  I imagine most modellers (including me as I keep forgetting this little bit of info as the Mustang holds little interest to me) fit this category. For me, far easier to have panel lines for CAC (as appropriate) Mustangs (the only ones I’m likely to build) than scribing them. 
Looking forward to this kit.

[Tbolt]

8 minutes ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

 

Modelling is a hobby and has many variations. Most are not at all concerned with fanatical accuracy and fidelity to the original, to make their kit look exactly like a plane reduced 1/xx times.

Most are concerned with assembling a kit straight out of the box, applying modelling chemistry straight from the bottle, and having an effect straight out of a modelling magazine.

 

This video has over 1.1 million views and over 22 thousand likes, and well over 600 thousand people have subscribed to this account.  And whether you like the model and the end result or not, this is what most modellers expect.

 

 

 

Again if Eduard had done away with the panel lines on the wings would these modellers not overly concerned with accuracy be that worried? Or do you think if this modeller had filled the panel lines, would  he had any less views of his video? 

 

We will only ever know for sure if some does bring out a high quality Mustang with filled wings.

[Piotr Mikolajski]

14 minutes ago, Tbolt said:

Again if Eduard had done away with the panel lines on the wings would these modellers not overly concerned with accuracy be that worried?

 

Sorry, but you are giving a false alternative.

Just because most aren't interested in hyper-realism and hyper-accuracy in scale doesn't mean they don't care about how the wing will look.

 

They are interested in surface detail - panel lines and riveting - because that will help them achieve the effect they want. They want to make their own model so that those lines and rivets are visible. Exactly as they have seen it in modelling magazines, as they have seen it in modelling guides, as they have seen it on modelling forums, as they have seen it on YouTube. And they want to do it with as little effort as possible - that is, having a kit prepared by the manufacturer and ready-made solutions in a bottle.

And yes, I am tired of the ubiquity of black paneliner from Tamiya, but I won't turn the river with a stick. Whether I like it or not, people buy Tamiya's black paneliner, soak their kit in it and are delighted about it. And they have every right to do so, because they bought the kit and the paneliner with their own money and they can do whatever they like with it.

 

The number of modellers dissatisfied with a lack of detail will always be much higher than the number of modellers delighted with a completely smooth wing (or the whole kit, if we move away from that poor Mustang, which hasn't even been released yet). The manufacturer knows very well that filling fine thin panel lines and rivets is trivial with water-soluble acrylic putties, while restoring panel lines and rivets is laborious.

 

Knowing about both, the manufacturer can risk losing a small group of those potential customers who want a smooth wing, but cannot afford to lose those potential customers who want a wing with panel lines and rivets. This is really standard risk estimation and simple economic calculation. As @Torbjorn said above - commercially it’s a no-brainer.

[Graham Boak]

7 minutes ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

. They want to make their own model so that those lines and rivets are visible. Exactly as they have seen it in modelling magazines, as they have seen it in modelling guides, as they have seen it on modelling forums, as they have seen it on YouTube. 

 

Which is exactly why people should build models based on the real thing, not on other peoples' models.

 

To be fair, there are arguments that even fine panel lines can be seen on high quality photographs or even the real thing - sometimes, with the wind in the right direction and an R in the month -but not as solid black lines,  An indication with a slightly darker shade of the colour seen on adjacent panels would allow representation of such things, without leaving the first impression of a model being that someone has cast a black net over it, or been busy drawing noughts and crosses boards all over their otherwise excellent work.

[Julien]

Can we move on from this discussion about panel lines. If you  want to have one then please create a thread fro it in the relevent section, not have it here in the rumor section.

Thx

[Julien]

16 hours ago, Julien said:

Can we move on from this discussion about panel lines. If you  want to have one then please create a thread fro it in the relevent section, not have it here in the rumor section.

Thx

I asked nicely, any more and people will get site holidays

[Hook]

If the breakdown of the bigger brother is anything to go by, we're in for a treat, with lots o' bits to wander in the spares box. I would bet on the props being single part in 1/72nd, though. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre