Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This might have been discussed on here before but I couldn't find much on the topic. If it was well discussed, send me there and I'll delete this. What are the differences with the Ertl 707 kits and the Heller ones? Not counting the tanker option. I just know the Heller is a 300 series with the larger wing. I'd like to make a 720 or a very production airliner from whichever is closest. I can get JT3C-6 engines for the 720. Were these kit parts on one of them? What are the key visable differences for each version?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You might take a look here.

There is a,probably,complete explanation of all 707/720 differences.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php%3Fid%3D72&ved=2ahUKEwjFnOyV6aLwAhW-wAIHHWTCD20QFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw0bcOHJfIv-O4eex66IpBht

 

Heller produced the 707-320 in passenger and AWACS versions.There is also an Airfix AWACS with the new CFM-56 engines (Heller moulds)

AMT/ERTL produced various KC-135 versions with all types of engines.

Italeri released also some of them,I think these were the AMT/ERTL moulds.

 

Hope this helps ?

Alex

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Alex1978 said:

You might take a look here.

There is a,probably,complete explanation of all 707/720 differences.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php%3Fid%3D72&ved=2ahUKEwjFnOyV6aLwAhW-wAIHHWTCD20QFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw0bcOHJfIv-O4eex66IpBht

 

Heller produced the 707-320 in passenger and AWACS versions.There is also an Airfix AWACS with the new CFM-56 engines (Heller moulds)

AMT/ERTL produced various KC-135 versions with all types of engines.

Italeri released also some of them,I think these were the AMT/ERTL moulds.

 

Hope this helps ?

Alex

 

Thanks, this will get me in the right direction. They sure get complicated, have to know which particular plane your doing. Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a difficult conversion to undertake!!!!  You have to combine the two kits.  It can be done, but it's a real hassle.

 

Alex

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Might I refer you to this link where Bill Matthews converts a AMT EC-135N (derived from the AMT KC-135) into a Boeing 720 in 1/72 scale. Starting with a KC-135 kit negates the need to fit a new nose as Bill did.

 

And I love the reference in the article to Hilton Jones of Cardiff who combined a Heller 707 with an Airfix C-130 to produce a Vanguard. Now that's converting!

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nigel Bunker said:

Bill Matthews

He's a master!  I'm really impressed at the work he did on this, especially on the wings and the fuselage plugs.  Like I wrote earlier, this is a tough conversion.  It's certainly doable, but extremely difficult.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Biggest thing is not getting confused which ones which.  I have two Heller 707s now, one an E-3. The Ertl/AMT ones are all of a sudden well over $100. Hopefully I can find a used one. I did see the pictures showing the different wings and mentions of the different engines. I was given a set of engines I think from the Ertl kit, very smooth slender ones with a normal exhaust cone. I'll look through the links. I want to make an early one, maybe even the -80 but that has a narrower fuselage as was mentioned. I already have the old Comet -80 so I might just keep it for the prototype in my collection.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bill Matthews article is a very good one; the place where things diverge is in using a KC-135 versus a Heller 707 (E-3) as a starting point, mainly because the Heller kit incorporates the so called "Crease Beam" that the 707 series had.

 

One thing that is holding up my KC-135 project is re-setting the wing dihedral. Once you see it on the model it becomes impossible to overlook and i just cannot un-see it.

 

You probably knew this already, but back in the day DB Conversions had detailed plans on how to convert the Heller 707 to a -135. The most significant detail here is, he described how to modify the -320 series wings to the earlier -100 series standard. There may be some useful nuggets of info to be found here.

 

I would say that the ERTL/AMT kit provides some very useful things, like both short and long span tailplanes, which IMHO are nicer than the Heller ones. Should you choose to do an early JT-3 powered 720, there may be some resin aftermarket conversion stuff out there but i don't know. Flightpath made some very nice resin intakes for the KC-135 that would be eminently suitable for a JT-3, but i don't think anyone makes the characteristic "Organ Pipe" noise diffuser exhausts for the back end.

 

Kurt at Authentic Airliners *is* presently working on a resin, 72nd scale 707-138B, but i haven't seen any progress on it for a while.

 

-d-

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2021 at 11:35 AM, David H said:

Bill Matthews article is a very good one; the place where things diverge is in using a KC-135 versus a Heller 707 (E-3) as a starting point, mainly because the Heller kit incorporates the so called "Crease Beam" that the 707 series had.

 

One thing that is holding up my KC-135 project is re-setting the wing dihedral. Once you see it on the model it becomes impossible to overlook and i just cannot un-see it.

 

You probably knew this already, but back in the day DB Conversions had detailed plans on how to convert the Heller 707 to a -135. The most significant detail here is, he described how to modify the -320 series wings to the earlier -100 series standard. There may be some useful nuggets of info to be found here.

 

I would say that the ERTL/AMT kit provides some very useful things, like both short and long span tailplanes, which IMHO are nicer than the Heller ones. Should you choose to do an early JT-3 powered 720, there may be some resin aftermarket conversion stuff out there but i don't know. Flightpath made some very nice resin intakes for the KC-135 that would be eminently suitable for a JT-3, but i don't think anyone makes the characteristic "Organ Pipe" noise diffuser exhausts for the back end.

 

Kurt at Authentic Airliners *is* presently working on a resin, 72nd scale 707-138B, but i haven't seen any progress on it for a while.

 

-d-

I'll look for that Bill Mathews article. Contrails makes or made the -11/-12 engines with the organ pipes. They are on the site and a set on evilbay right now. I also just found this page  https://www.dembrudders.com/kc-135-and-707-part-one-the-172-kits.html

it shows the kits parts and explanes the differences. It doesn't show the organ pipes parts, so I don't know if any kit came with them or if Contrails made them only. I'm leaning towards a 720. I already have two Heller kits not built.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, busnproplinerfan said:

organ pipes parts, so I don't know if any kit came with them

Hey there.  I did not see Contrails' JT-3C organ pipes, but I did see the DC-8-20/30 assemblies, which look good at first glance!  None of the injection-molded kits contains organ-pipes, because they simply were not used on either the C-135 (in any version) or the fan-powered 707-320B/C.  In the movie Dr. Strangelove, there is a brief scene that shows a couple airmen standing before (what appears to be a backdrop depicting) an aircraft with organ-pipe sound suppressors.  Stan Kubrick can be forgiven for such inaccuracies, including his depiction of the B-52H crew area, in what is otherwise a great flick!  The DemBrudders article contains some inaccuracies about release dates for the KC-135R, but is otherwise sound. 

 

It's clear that DemBrudders still have not built either of these kits!  One of the differences between the AMT and later releases is that AMT gave you two cockpit transparencies, which I thought generous, all things considered.  That sprue gate was later blocked off to prevent such generosity in the future.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...