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92 Sqn Phantom FGR.2 XV413 Zaps


Fatcawthorne
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Hello all, just want to tap into the BM Hive-mind to shed some light on some of those tiny tiny details that delight modellers everywhere.

 

Now I have rescued one of the longest-serving members of my ever-expanding Shelf of Doom Club, a Revell re-pop of the Hasegawa 1/48 Phantom FGR.2.  Now this kit went to the SOD at least 15 years ago dressed in my then stock finish of Humbrol Enamels, in the later Air Superiority grey finish.  It wasn't a bad build for my skills of the time, but I had knocked off and lost one of the flaperons and thus she never got finished.  Roll away those years and whilst building my RAF Sabre F4 a couple of years back I had been reading about stripping paint from old models and decided to give this a dose of the old-style Oven Pride and to finally finish the kit off in the DG/DSG 70's style camo whilst I had those colours out for the Sabre.

 

001

 

Now having built it with the Marconi RWR Fin Cap in place I was limited with marking options, especially not wishing to do the kit scheme. However I found an option on the Xtradecals X48199 sheet for XV413 of 92 Sqn.  Now I was happy to take their word for accuracy as I could find no photos at all of the airframe in 92 Sqn service online, and TBH I just wanted this one over the line; the re-build is now so so close to an RFI (stick on the missiles, a Flory Wash and a Satin Coat and we're there), so what could possibly go wrong?

 

This morning I received a copy of Richard L Ward's Phantom Squadrons of the Royal Air Force and Fleet Air Arm, that I'd bought on eBay that's what!! 

 

I thought I'd just flick through and have a look at the 92 Sqn pages and blow me sideways there's only a photo of XV413 in the right timeframe.  Timing or what?  Now this photo (copy below scanned from the book including the photo's credits) shows a couple of Zaps applied, one of an aircraft on the tail and another of risque footprints on the lower rear fuselage.   Now these do not appear on the Xtradecals sheet, (and also the Z for Zulu appears much thicker than as printed on the sheet).

 

I can also see some wording on the intake splitter that I guess is Sticker No. 18 from the Xtradecals sheet that I can find no menton of in the destructions, (saying that it looks very much like it has been typoed as 14 on the instruction sheet so mystery over - with the brain-fog I've got at the moment I looked and looked and looked at the destructions but never made that link until typing this here! Doh!)!.

 

Anyways do any of the BM Brethren have any further information on, or photos of these Zaps for XV413?

 

img20210427-12270545.jpg

 

Thanks in advance as usual, and do stay safe out there.

 

Chris 

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A few ideas.The "zap" on the splitter plate is also evident on XV489 and appears to be the aircrew names - maybe something to do with it being the special review in 1977 (how did I miss that?) so moving on from that idea it's possible that the foot prints and the Phantom zap were applied at the review - but almost certainly after HM had left as the a/c on display were immaculate. I'd guess that the fin zap and footprints were removed quite quickly and therefore did not appear in the decal sheet research. 

 

It's worth noting that the unit markings at the time were painted on - leading to all sorts of variations - not the standard printed stickers we see (or not) nowadays.

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Something missing on an Xtradecal sheet- there's a surprise!

This a/c is the subject of Modeldecal sheet 64. Unfortunately, the zaps are not shown on the instructions and my sheet is part used and only has the plane zap.

 

The crew name on the splitter ramp are - from top to bottom:-

FLT LT LLOYD HARRISON

FLT LT DOORMAN?

SAC R ROBERTS?

 

The plane zap looks like a silver Phantom (could be a Buccaneer) on a red diamond - similar the the patches found on aircrew flight suits.

 

Also of note in the instructions is that the original square type fin flash is showing underneath the swept flash.

Edited by Blacktjet
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On 4/27/2021 at 4:31 PM, iainpeden said:

A few ideas.The "zap" on the splitter plate is also evident on XV489 and appears to be the aircrew names - maybe something to do with it being the special review in 1977 (how did I miss that?) so moving on from that idea it's possible that the foot prints and the Phantom zap were applied at the review - but almost certainly after HM had left as the a/c on display were immaculate. I'd guess that the fin zap and footprints were removed quite quickly and therefore did not appear in the decal sheet research. 

 

It's worth noting that the unit markings at the time were painted on - leading to all sorts of variations - not the standard printed stickers we see (or not) nowadays.

 

27 minutes ago, Blacktjet said:

Somthing missing on an Xtradecal sheet- there's a surprise!

This a/c is the subject of Modeldecal sheet 64. Unfortunately, the zaps are not shown on the instructions and my sheet is part used and only has the plane zap.

 

The crew name on the splitter ramp are - from top to bottom:-

FLT LT LLOYD HARRISON

FLT LT DOORMAN?

SAC R ROBERTS?

 

The plane zap looks like a silver Phantom (could be a Buccaneer) on a red diamond - similar the the patches found on aircrew flight suits.

 

Thank you for your input fellas, a google search for "RAF aircrew red diamond patch" led me to this eBay item which was soon snaffled into the basket!!!

 

Do you think this is it?   Pretty long shot if it isn't I'd say!

 

f4-patch-v2.jpg

 

Now what's the story behind a USAF 57th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (based in Iceland) Zap on a 92 Sqn airframe at the Silver Jubilee review? Right I'm off to bury myself even further down that rabbit hole!! 

 

Thanks again, and if any of you know anymore for anymore please keep chipping in!

 

Stay well all, Chris

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I would say that that is it! As for the 'footprints', I'm sure I've seen these on another decal sheet. I found the Modeldecal sheet with the 19 Squadron counterpart, this too has the plane zap but not the footprints - maybe these were included as an update on a later sheet. I also have the Almark 1/48 Phantom sheet but the zaps aren't on that either.

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15 (XV) squadron had a red patch with a Buccaneer outline on which is more likely -(although it is more F-4 shaped on the fin). 99.9999 sure that the F-4Cs of the 57FIS weren't at Finningley in '77.

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The fin zap could still be a Buccaneer but bear in mind that RAF Phantoms on North Sea patrol often called in at Keflavik, especially Leuchars based squadrons.

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OK - to stop you all having heart attacks whilst trying to guesstimate whats what, I have dragged the slides out from the bottom of the pile and rescanned them for your benefit.  I have not looked at them since I got them back from Dick Ward, together with others, when he compiled his book.  At least two of my slides resulted in an almost heated discussion, voices were nearly raised !! - but that was 19 Squadrons fault.

 

Wittering was the base for the RAF Germany detachment for the Jubilee flypast as part of the RAF's part in the event.  Both Primary and Reserve crews and aircraft were based there as required and the practice formation flights commenced in April 1977.  

 

All the zaps were applied after the Royal Flypast on the 29th July 1977 and mostly by 19 Squadron's ground crew. The gold crown was a joint effort between 19 and 92 but was also "borrowed" and applied by the two detached Buccaneer Squadrons, XV and 16.  As far as I am aware, neither the detached Harrier, 3 and 4;  nor the Jaguars of 17 Squadron were zapped.

 

n0PVERm.png

 

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Note the small blue zap on the nose just behind the radome.  I have no idea who applied it but it also appeared on some of the Buccaneers

 

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Fin zap is in "19Sqdn Blue" with "XIX" in Red

 

I'll stick a few more up later - including the 19 Squadron shots that caused all the controversy

 

Enjoy

 

Dennis 

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1 hour ago, sloegin57 said:

OK - to stop you all having heart attacks whilst trying to guesstimate whats what, I have dragged the slides out from the bottom of the pile and rescanned them for your benefit.  I have not looked at them since I got them back from Dick Ward, together with others, when he compiled his book.  At least two of my slides resulted in an almost heated discussion, voices were nearly raised !! - but that was 19 Squadrons fault.

 

Wittering was the base for the RAF Germany detachment for the Jubilee flypast as part of the RAF's part in the event.  Both Primary and Reserve crews and aircraft were based there as required and the practice formation flights commenced in April 1977.  

 

All the zaps were applied after the Royal Flypast on the 29th July 1977 and mostly by 19 Squadron's ground crew. The gold crown was a joint effort between 19 and 92 but was also "borrowed" and applied by the two detached Buccaneer Squadrons, XV and 16.  As far as I am aware, neither the detached Harrier, 3 and 4;  nor the Jaguars of 17 Squadron were zapped.

Note the small blue zap on the nose just behind the radome.  I have no idea who applied it but it also appeared on some of the Buccaneers

 

Fin zap is in "19Sqdn Blue" with "XIX" in Red

I'll stick a few more up later - including the 19 Squadron shots that caused all the controversy

 

Enjoy

 

Dennis 

 

As Iain (@iainpeden) says, what a spoilsport and what am I going to do with that USAF 57th Fighter Interceptor Squadron patch I've bought now Dennis? - OK, well I could start a USAF stash to match my RAF one, only I'd need a new wife, new bigger house and to live to 972 years old to finish them all in that case!!

 

Dennis, didn't realise you were even responsible for these shots (well I hadn't tied you to being sloegin57 to be more accurate).   I had spent a few hours earlier this week trying to find you on Google as a longshot to ask if you had any higher resolution versions of the pictures used in the book that started this quest for me, and there you were right under my nose all the time!!  Were you part of Crab Air when you took these?

 

I know it sound so crass and cliche but the knowledge and generosity (materially, interlectually and with their valuable time) of our membership truly amazes me, if only the rest of the world could work to our model (pun intended btw!), what a world we could live in.  We truly are a Band of Brothers and Sisters!! 

 

Thank you so much Dennis, and I can't wait for the next installment, it's like being at Saturday morning pictures and the Flash Gordon cliffhangers!!! 

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Thanks again Dennis @sloegin57, as it's a lovely slow afternoon in the shop I've had a chance to have a little play with Dennis' photos and CorelDraw with a view to making some homebrew decals for these zaps.

 

Hopefully we've cracked it now, short of firming up on the colours, unless anyone knows of any extra Zaps I don't know about!!

 

XV413.png

XV413-Outline.png

 

Hopefully the pictures will enlarge OK on the screen.

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3 hours ago, sloegin57 said:

All the zaps were applied after the Royal Flypast on the 29th July 1977 and mostly by 19 Squadron's ground crew. The gold crown was a joint effort between 19 and 92 but was also "borrowed" and applied by the two detached Buccaneer Squadrons, XV and 16.  As far as I am aware, neither the detached Harrier, 3 and 4;  nor the Jaguars of 17 Squadron were zapped.

.

.

I'll stick a few more up later - including the 19 Squadron shots that caused all the controversy

 

Enjoy

 

Dennis 

Come on Dennis, would be good to see some Photo's of jets from the only RAFG Phantom Fighter Sqn.... 😆

 

 

Great work on the Jet and decals by the way.....

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1 hour ago, PLC1966 said:

Come on Dennis, would be good to see some Photo's of jets from the only RAFG Phantom Fighter Sqn.... 😆

 

 

Great work on the Jet and decals by the way.....

OK - more 92 coming up :-

hzlcEJp.png

 

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Note the crew names in pale "19 Blue"

 

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Now ----- 19Sqdn colours - Discuss :-

 

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43Sqdn yellow Phantom with "43Sqdn" on in black on fin

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HTH

Dennis

 

 

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Hi Dennis, 

 

I presume you are looking at what looks like the Black/White checks around the roundel ?  Did 43Sqn run FGR2 before going FG1 ? Was the jet with 43Sqn at one point ?  

 

In the back of the bonce I have it 111Sqn may have had FGR2 before reverting to FG1 to make Leuchars an FG1 Unit ?

 

Great Photo's by the way......you lucky so and so.  

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4 hours ago, sloegin57 said:

 

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What about the Helmet checks on the Growbags ?  Yellow/Blue ? Would normally associate that with 54Sqn.

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22 minutes ago, PLC1966 said:

Hi Dennis, 

 

I presume you are looking at what looks like the Black/White checks around the roundel ?  Did 43Sqn run FGR2 before going FG1 ? Was the jet with 43Sqn at one point ?  

 

In the back of the bonce I have it 111Sqn may have had FGR2 before reverting to FG1 to make Leuchars an FG1 Unit ?

 

Great Photo's by the way......you lucky so and so.  

43 only flew the FG. 1 but 111 started out as an FGR. 2 unit but converted to FG. 1s once former FAA examples became available.

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1 minute ago, stever219 said:

43 only flew the FG. 1 but 111 started out as an FGR. 2 unit but converted to FG. 1s once former FAA examples became available.

Thanks, I knew there was something around someone swapping jets out.

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26 minutes ago, PLC1966 said:

What about the Helmet checks on the Growbags ?  Yellow/Blue ? Would normally associate that with 54Sqn.

Good point PLC1966.  

 

54 Squadron had re-equipped with Jaguars three years before the Jubilee. They could well be an ex 54 Squadron crew posted to 92 Squadron as aircrew normally kept their flying gear, especially helmets, wherever they were.

 

Dennis 

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1 hour ago, PLC1966 said:

Hi Dennis, 

 

I presume you are looking at what looks like the Black/White checks around the roundel ?  Did 43Sqn run FGR2 before going FG1 ? Was the jet with 43Sqn at one point ?  

 

In the back of the bonce I have it 111Sqn may have had FGR2 before reverting to FG1 to make Leuchars an FG1 Unit ?

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.  It was the fact that 19 Squadron had Black/White checks on that caused the very long discussion with Dick Ward.  He swore blind that it was a very Dark blue but when I pointed out that I had been up close and personal with the checks and that I was not colour blind, he did the next best thing and did not mention it in his book.

 

The markings themselves are the correct proportions for 19 its just that the one colour is off - Black instead of Blue.  43 Squadrons checks are 2:4 :-

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Whereas 19 Squadrons checks are 2:3 :-

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I know that the Lightnings of 19 Squadron had Roundel Blue in the markings but even this appeared slightly lighter as the Blue had been sprayed on top of a White rectangle.  The first true 19 Squadron markings for the Phantom came in during the practice sessions, freshly painted up but with only the checks on the fuselage and the fin badge - no code :-

spacer.png

 

I did ask the Flt/Lt JENGO as to why 19 had applied Black instead of Blue - he just shrugged and replied "Because they could"

 

HTH

Dennis

 

EDIT :-

43Squadron operated just one FGR.2 at the start of the Squadron, XT902 from the OCU :-

spacer.png

 

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I thought my knowledge of RAF Phantom markings was complete but those black and white checks are new to me: I assumed they went from a light blue to dark blue around the time that the RWR was fitted. However having had a quick look at Last of the Phantoms it appears  was wrong - some 19 squadron with bars around the roundel and on the RWR fin cap - some only around the roundel. There's a colour picture in Dick's book (p31 of a 19 sqd FGR.2 in camo with clearly dark blue and white checks - attributed to MOD-PR).

 

Once they went over to the grey scheme it was a return to light blue for the RWR checks (unless somebody has photographic proof of course).

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What a brilliant thread chaps, I am really enjoying the information coming out!  Especially the FG.1 pic.  All of this is enormously helpful with my 32nd FG.1 conversion build I have going on here.  I have been often having thoughts of doing a 43 line bird and I am reading Patrick Martins book (part 2 on the Brit Phantoms from 1979-1992)  and interestingly I saw a photo in his book of a 43 FG.1 I might end up doing.  it's on page 14  and is of XV577 'AM' approachina a tanker and it seems to have a zap on the cockpit side which I am trying to figure out.  Looks like a bit of an overspray mark around one side and might look good on my 32nd kit.  I have no idea what it might be, but there is so much knowledge here I thought I might ask.. I will try and take a pic or scan of it.  Photo was taken by a Peter Foster

 

Cheers and thanks for a great thread!

Anthony 

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3 hours ago, sloegin57 said:

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.  It was the fact that 19 Squadron had Black/White checks on that caused the very long discussion with Dick Ward.  He swore blind that it was a very Dark blue but when I pointed out that I had been up close and personal with the checks and that I was not colour blind, he did the next best thing and did not mention it in his book.

 

The markings themselves are the correct proportions for 19 its just that the one colour is off - Black instead of Blue.  43 Squadrons checks are 2:4 :-

spacer.png

 

Whereas 19 Squadrons checks are 2:3 :-

spacer.png

I know that the Lightnings of 19 Squadron had Roundel Blue in the markings but even this appeared slightly lighter as the Blue had been sprayed on top of a White rectangle.  The first true 19 Squadron markings for the Phantom came in during the practice sessions, freshly painted up but with only the checks on the fuselage and the fin badge - no code :-

spacer.png

 

I did ask the Flt/Lt JENGO as to why 19 had applied Black instead of Blue - he just shrugged and replied "Because they could"

 

HTH

Dennis

 

EDIT :-

43Squadron operated just one FGR.2 at the start of the Squadron, XT902 from the OCU :-

spacer.png

 

White ex-Navy stock Sgt & Fletcher Tanks ?

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