P-47D Cockpit Colors

[TheRealMrEd]

Not sure what block number, TBolt, but I'm pretty sure a call to the Tennessee Air Museum could clear it up:TennAitMus

 

Ed

[Tbolt]

8 hours ago, TheRealMrEd said:

Not sure what block number, TBolt, but I'm pretty sure a call to the Tennessee Air Museum could clear it up:TennAitMus

 

Ed

Thanks for the link. I'll probably email them as it might be a bit of an expensive call from England. 

 

I think it might be a D-40, serial number 45-49130 as it's listed as being stored there.

 

EDIT - I've just realised it has a corrugated floor so it's not a D-40.

[TheRealMrEd]

C'mon TBolt, you know that for modeling, the skies the limit on spending.  Not so much for food, shelter, health....

 

Ed

[Tbolt]

1 hour ago, TheRealMrEd said:

C'mon TBolt, you know that for modeling, the skies the limit on spending.  Not so much for food, shelter, health....

 

Ed

 

But I do need that money to buy all the nice new kits coming out this year 💷

[BS_w]

cockpit could be receive a last coat of tinted primer yellow green, ddg or bronze green, the inner face of enclosure frames was specified to be black

[72modeler]

On 4/30/2021 at 11:33 AM, TheRealMrEd said:

Not sure what block number, TBolt, but I'm pretty sure a call to the Tennessee Air Museum could clear it up

44-90460: painted as 'Hun Hunter XVI' is a P-47D-40

44-90438: painted as 'Wicked Wabbit' is a P-47D-40

 

Both are a part of the Tennessee Aviation Museum collection at Seviervile, TN. I have been to the museum three times, as it is only a few miles from where my sister lives. IIRC, they were at one time, the only two airworthy Jugs that had operating turbosuperchargers. I wasn't able to take any cockpit or wheel bay photos when I was there. They also have a Mig-21UM, a VietNam veteran H-34, and the forward fuselage that was used for filming interior shots for the film 'Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo.' You can visit their website to view the collection, which also includes a T-33A/Silver Star and an F-86F.

Mike

 

I also found this website just now that you or other Jug junkies might like to peruse:

http://www.368thfightergroup.com/P-47-2.html

Edited May 3, 2021 by 72modeler
added link

[Tbolt]

50 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

44-90460: painted as 'Hun Hunter XVI' is a P-47D-40

44-90438: painted as 'Wicked Wabbit' is a P-47D-40

 

Both are a part of the Tennessee Aviation Museum collection at Seviervile, TN. I have been to the museum three times, as it is only a few miles from where my sister lives. IIRC, they were at one time, the only two airworthy Jugs that had operating turbosuperchargers. I wasn't able to take any cockpit or wheel bay photos when I was there. They also have a Mig-21UM, a VietNam veteran H-34, and the forward fuselage that was used for filming interior shots for the film 'Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo.' You can visit their website to view the collection, which also includes a T-33A/Silver Star and an F-86F.

Mike

 

I also found this website just now that you or other Jug junkies might like to peruse:

http://www.368thfightergroup.com/P-47-2.html

 

I'm pretty sure that's not Hunter Hunter XVI as I don't think it's been in that condition recently! It's obviously not Wicket Wabbit either as that's in the picture next to it 😉 Would love to get to see them both some day though.

[11bravo]

On 4/27/2021 at 6:29 AM, Tbolt said:

 

Early P-47D cockpits were painted yellow zinc chromate then they later changed to tinted zinc chromate.

 

Reference DDG, even in the EMI ( see image below ) from August 1944 with a revised date of October 1945 on the finishing pages, it still quotes tinted zinc chromate as the cockpit colour and like @Bozothenutter says it could be it was a mistake of how much black to be added as to why a dark colour came about. Below is a clip from that EMI and you can see it tells them to use 1gal of ZC and 1gal of toluene substitute for the ZC and for the tinted ZC in the cockpit it list the same and also black, but it doesn't list how much black is to be used. Of course this is only based on the documents I've seen and there could have been other paper work like a T.O with other information on.

 

But this doesn't explain where this blue tinted DDG being used on P-47 cockpits came from, because adding black to ZC doesn't not give you that colour. The unrestored ( apparently )  D-30 cockpit pictures shown in the Detail & Scale book, from 44-32691 does seem to have a blue tint.  But there are so many unknowns here, was there a shortage of black at one point but DDG was available so that's what was used? 

 

 

 

As for Dottie Mae's cockpit ( I'm guess that were that last photo is from ) having different shades of green I think again that's just down interpretation of the instructions and the paint being mixed by different people without too much accuracy.

 

I'm building a P-47M at the moment and I'm going for DDG, but for a late D you could go either way. This D-28's armour plate looks quite dark - it looks like DDG and Sex Express looks similar.

 

 

  

44-32691's cockpit. Not a colour you can get from adding too much black to zinc chromate.

 

 

 

 

Another noob question - in this pic, the worn area on the seat pan almost looks to be wood.   Was the -47's seat partially wood or am I just looking at weathered aluminum?

[11bravo]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:44 AM, Dana Bell said:

Hi Gonzo,

 

I'm glad to help, though I admit there are still pieces of the story that I'd love to better understand.

 

Thanks also for the kind comments on the Corsair books.  Those are still the two most enjoyable projects I've ever worked on!

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Just wanted to second the comments on your two Corsair books.   I used both for my 32nd F4U-1D build and they were absolutely invaluable.   Well worth the very reasonable price.    I hope you will be doing other "deep dives" like this on other WW2 aircraft Dana!

 

 

[Tbolt]

17 hours ago, 11bravo said:

Another noob question - in this pic, the worn area on the seat pan almost looks to be wood.   Was the -47's seat partially wood or am I just looking at weathered aluminum?

Yes it's just weathering, you can see similar on this P-47 seat which is clearly metallic.

 

 

 

 

 

[jovapad]

Hi everybody, 

 

found this tread, when searching for the interior colours for the Yugoslav F-47D in the STGB. Thought I could revive it a bit.

I got some photos of the F-47 in the YAF museum. The interior color is either a repaint or higly faded DDG as mentioned in the STGB build thread.

It looks like the seats with more squared tops were made of wood (with joins and edges covered with metal plates), while the ones with the rounded top were from metal.

Check out the link below and scroll down to seat restoration:

https://www.aircorpsaviation.com/february-march-dakota-territory-air-museum-p-47-update-2/

The riveting on the museum seat is rather similar to the one on restoration. The only thing is that the seat from the YAF museum looks like its

back rest has cracked during exploatation and a metal plate was riveted to it to hold it together.

[Tbolt]

5 hours ago, jovapad said:

Hi everybody, 

 

found this tread, when searching for the interior colours for the Yugoslav F-47D in the STGB. Thought I could revive it a bit.

I got some photos of the F-47 in the YAF museum. The interior color is either a repaint or higly faded DDG as mentioned in the STGB build thread.

 

It looks like the seats with more squared tops were made of wood (with joins and edges covered with metal plates), while the ones with the rounded top were from metal.

Check out the link below and scroll down to seat restoration:

https://www.aircorpsaviation.com/february-march-dakota-territory-air-museum-p-47-update-2/

The riveting on the museum seat is rather similar to the one on restoration. The only thing is that the seat from the YAF museum looks like its

back rest has cracked during exploatation and a metal plate was riveted to it to hold it together.

 

Looks nothing like faded DDG to me, it looks like tinted zinc chromate and a fairly lightly tinted one.

 

Interesting about the seat, apparently they are made of wood. I have save all the Dakota Air Museums info on their P-47 but should really get around to reading it! I suspect some of the round topped seats were also made mainly of wood also but I believe some were metal - in this image it looks metal, look at the square cutouts which look like they've been pressed and the buckling along the top on both sides. Since this is a P-47D-2, metal probably wasn't too much of a problem then and they only started using wood later on.  I've only found the drawing for the early seat of which could be made by 3 different companies, though there is no material specs on it. It looks like the later seat was only made my the American Seating Co.

 

 

 

 

[Bozothenutter]

Where did the Yugoslav 'bolts come from?

Did they go through depot before being handed over?

Is that particular one original?

Be very careful with museum aircraft.

They could be anything,  'restored' multiple times, etc.

Even renowned musea like the Tank museum are known to have bothched restorations (baconpanther anyone?)

[72modeler]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:02 PM, Bozothenutter said:

Where did the Yugoslav 'bolts come from?

Did they go through depot before being handed over?

Is that particular one original?

Be very careful with museum aircraft.

They could be anything,  'restored' multiple times, etc.

Even renowned musea like the Tank museum are known to have bothched restorations (baconpanther anyone?)

I have read that 150 P-47's were delivered from the USA in 1951, but no mention if they came from storage or after depot overhaul; in view of the date, I would think that they went through depot after being taken from storage. I then also found on the RAF Museum website mention that P-47's were delivered to the Oklahoma City Air Depot/Tinker AB February, 1950, and under  the Mutual Assistance  Pact, 150 P-47's were delivered to Yugoslavia from there November, 1951. Best I could come up with, but I bet @Tbolt would not only know, he's probably got all the serial numbers!

Mike

[dragonlanceHR]

A few of the Yugoslav P-47's came from French stocks, IIRC those arrived unarmed. I could upload the old YUVAM Bulletin article if interested.

[Tbolt]

17 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I have read that 150 P-47's were delivered from the USA in 1951, but no mention if they came from storage or after depot overhaul; in view of the date, I would think that they went through depot after being taken from storage. I then also found on the RAF Museum website mention that P-47's were delivered to the Oklahoma City Air Depot/Tinker AB February, 1950, and under  the Mutual Assistance  Pact, 150 P-47's were delivered to Yugoslavia from there November, 1951. Best I could come up with, but I bet @Tbolt would not only know, he's probably got all the serial numbers!

Mike

 

No not really, though I probably have got the serial numbers somewhere.

3 hours ago, dragonlanceHR said:

A few of the Yugoslav P-47's came from French stocks, IIRC those arrived unarmed. I could upload the old YUVAM Bulletin article if interested.

 

Yes sounds interesting 👍

[dragonlanceHR]

Gallery is here

 

https://postimg.cc/gallery/yV4kk71

 

 

[Tbolt]

5 hours ago, dragonlanceHR said:

Gallery is here

 

https://postimg.cc/gallery/yV4kk71

 

 

 

Great, thanks for that.