Finemolds and Hasegawa 1/72 F-4E Phantom II - the Long Nose saga - Completed!

[Fritag]

Fine detailing G. 

 

(Going for economical use of words/punning there…but spoilt it with the wordy explanation )

 

 

[giemme]

17 hours ago, TheBaron said:

That is one hell of an update Giorgio.

That has to be the modelling equivalent of online trolling doesn't it?

(Top work on the replacements)

 Cheers tony, thank you!

 

17 hours ago, Johnson said:

I had more problems at the back of the FM F-4D than anywhere else, a bit over-engineered I thought. But you've made a fine job of it Giorgio. Excellent progress.

Over-engineered, I think you are right there. Thanks for the praise!

 

16 hours ago, keefr22 said:

Excellent update G, all starting to look very Phantomish! 👍

 

 

That's another fine idea I'm stealing...!!

 

K

 

Steal away, Keith! And thanks for the comment, much appreciated!

 

15 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

That’s quite a big bit to lose to the carpet monster. That must be quite the shag pile you have. 🐻🤛😆

excellent replacement mind. It’s such an odd bit to have separate. I wonder why they did it that way?  Regardless a quality update. Bravo. 🙌

 

 Johnny

 

I actually dropped it on my workbench, but it must have ricocheted and I lost sight of it....  And I don't even have a carpet on the floor, it's all tiles!!!  Thank you, anyway  

 

5 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Very nice update Giorgio.

Lovely scratch building too, in times of need (Bloody Carpet Monsters.)

 

Not long until paint ?

 

Simon.

Not very long until paint, let's say that, Simon  

 

2 hours ago, hendie said:

wonderful update G.   Lots of detail going on (and running off). Top marks for your scratchbuilding skills too

Thanks Alan, glad you liked that!

 

2 hours ago, Fritag said:

Fine detailing G. 

 

(Going for economical use of words/punning there…but spoilt it with the wordy explanation )

 

 

There's no way of pulling the bar(rister) out of you, is there?  Thanks Steve

 

Ciao

[Terry1954]

5 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Not long until paint ?

 

We want paint! 🤣🤣🤣

 

OK, I'll stay calm now. Beautiful work as ever Giorgio. Looks like those Finemold F-4's need some very careful rear end work. 🤔

 

Terry

[iainpeden]

@giemme

regarding that little strip of plastic you fed the carpet monster with.....

IIRC Finemolds wanted you to be able to paint the model in component parts before completion - especially the mucky end.

By constructing the keel area (with hook), painting it, the jet nozzles and that bit you lost you should be able to get some real interesting toning done.

[giemme]

1 hour ago, Terry1954 said:

 

We want paint! 🤣🤣🤣

 

OK, I'll stay calm now. Beautiful work as ever Giorgio. Looks like those Finemold F-4's need some very careful rear end work. 🤔

 

Terry

Better stay calm indeed, Terry - it's still gonna take a while before paint...      

 

As for the rear end of the Fm kit, I don't want to sound like I'm complaining: it's still a terrific kit, just probably a bit over-engineered in that area - and it's clumsy me that lost the bit, it didn't go feeding the carpet monster by itself....   

 

11 minutes ago, iainpeden said:

@giemme

regarding that little strip of plastic you fed the carpet monster with.....

IIRC Finemolds wanted you to be able to paint the model in component parts before completion - especially the mucky end.

By constructing the keel area (with hook), painting it, the jet nozzles and that bit you lost you should be able to get some real interesting toning done.

Thanks Ian, I did mention exactly that in my progress report: FM instructions suggest to paint the rear end as a separate sub-assembly, and fit it only at the final stages. But this would require an almost perfect fit (kinda like the tail fin fits, for that matter), and it's just not the case for this part. Still, the separate hook is a major plus in that regard; the bit I lost, could have easily been moulded into the main fuselage and painted with metal hues with minimal masking.

Again, I'm not really complaining, it's just not the best bit of the kit (IMHO, obvs); it doesn't detract anything from this being a great 1/72 Phantom kit  

 

Ciao

[giemme]

Looks like I owe a public apology to Finemolds about the above subject of how they engineered the burner section of the back fuselage; as usual, my good friend @Gene K has been an invaluable help about that, pointing out to me that the burner area of the fuselage differs from models with short burners (such as F-4C and D, f.i.) and models with long burners (such as the F-4E). See for yourself:

 

 

So Finemolds solution is actually brilliant, because allows for different versions using the same fuselage mould, allowing the modeller to produce a more accurate representation. It is a fiddly bit, but with a good reason  

 

Ciao

[billn53]

It seems that I learn something new every day, in this hobby!

[giemme]

47 minutes ago, billn53 said:

It seems that I learn something new every day, in this hobby!

That makes two of us!  

 

Ciao

[Navy Bird]

On 05/04/2022 at 08:12, billn53 said:

It seems that I learn something new every day, in this hobby!

 

And I make a new and different mistake each day! It's a great hobby!   

 

Cheers,

Bill

[corsaircorp]

5 minutes ago, Navy Bird said:

 

And I make a new and different mistake each day! It's a great hobby!   

 

Cheers,

Bill

Agreed, me too....

I used to say that a day in which one learned nothing is a lost day....

Great job Mr G...

Sincerely.

CC

[Terry1954]

Wow. I had always assumed it was just the burner can length that differred, but those two pics show the other subtleties. Well done @Gene K and @giemme for highlighting this and of course well done Finmolds for engineering some great and very accurate F-4's.

 

i wonder if they will ever give us a K/M? 🤔

 

Terry

[billn53]

6 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

 

 

i wonder if they will ever give us a K/M? 🤔

 

Or B?

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Wow—lots of awesome work to catch up on—will be using this when I attempt my Fine Molds F-4E!  Yes, G, I broke down and bought one because of this build.  I really like what you did with panels under the engine—also really appreciate the info via @Gene K regarding the fuselage engine connections on short burners vs long burners—best, Erwin

[giemme]

Hi all: thanks everybody for the above comments, and I trust you all had a happy Easter  

 

Meager update, but with life and festivities in the middle, that's all I could cobble together; first off, I refined the scratch built burner fairing (the black pencil marks are there only as references for the rescribing, not visible at this stage unfortunately- so you'll have to trust me  )

 

 

 

After that, it was time to install the brass replacement for the FM fin pitot (this comes form FM's own AM set). Another brilliant example of engineering here, where FM suggests to cut the plastic part enough to leave a base for the brass substitute, which is shaped as to have a mounting pin on its end. And so I did:

 

 

After drilling a 0.4mm hole (as per instructions), I glued it in place with CA (still to refine in the above pic). If you squint, you will also notice that I carved out the inner part of the tail fuel dump. Also "visible" (well, sort of....) here: 

 

 

I did drill the receiving hole for the nose pitot and dry fit it

 

I then glued the fin in place (a smear of PPP needed at the base join, I think)

 

So the two kits were on par

 

which led me to tackle the next task, to wit the outer slatted wings  

 

If you remember, I did cast some resin copies from the Revell parts; here's a dry fit on the Hasegawa kit (I used a defective cast for this)

 

The problem lies on the bottom side, where the hinges don't quite match (not very easy to see in next pic, sorry)

The same went for the FM kit:

 

 

From what I could gather looking at pics of the real AC, both Hasegawa and Finemolds have the hinges position almost correct, so I'll have to fix the outer wings one. That's easy enough; what was not easy was trying to separate the slat from the wing and keep the hinges. This went OK up to a certain point, but when I tried to sand and polish the part, half of the hinges broke off:

 

Perhaps I should expand more on this: the idea was to scratch build a replacement for the slats, while removing the molded in ones and keep the molded hinges. Then I should have made a new mold for the outer wings and the separated slats, so that I could cast copies for both the kits. Seeing how fragile the hinges would be, I'm no longer so sure I want to go down that road. For this reason, I also explored a different solution: here's a comparison shot with, from right to left, Hasegawa outer wings, a resin copy of the Revell ones where I scribed along the slat trailing edge and another copy as it came out of the mold

 

The goal was to show the little gap between the slat and the wing, and I think the idea has some merit - BTW, the wing strake needs fixing too, and as you can see I had already removed it form the left sample. It needs to be repositioned slightly outboard of the current position. The Hasegawa strake is plenty wrong, because it's the  one mounted on the S variant, way too long for the E.

 

I decided to cast a couple more sets of outer wings and keep experimenting to see what is the best solution (so far the first two casting sessions failed but I suspect the resin I used had been around for too long; as I write, I've cast another set with brand new resin, we'll see )

 

All comments welcome, as usual

 

Ciao

Edited April 18, 2022 by giemme

[Terry1954]

Some fine work happening here Giorgio. I may have missed something earlier, but are we saying the Revell outer wing is more accurate than the FM and Hasegawa versions? I can certainly see a difference above wrt the Hasegawa. I've all three kits in the stash but not had chance to look and compare at the moment.

 

Thanks

 

Terry

[giemme]

2 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

Some fine work happening here Giorgio. I may have missed something earlier, but are we saying the Revell outer wing is more accurate than the FM and Hasegawa versions? I can certainly see a difference above wrt the Hasegawa. I've all three kits in the stash but not had chance to look and compare at the moment.

 

Thanks

 

Terry

Terry, the Revell version is definitely more accurate than the Hasegawa's: in that the latter, besides being quite "flat" in the slat area, also misses one prominent panel line on the top and has the strake too long for the F-4E. As for Finemolds, this kit is for an EJ; they did not have slatted wings, so the kit part is just not suitable for the job.

 

Ciao

[Terry1954]

42 minutes ago, giemme said:

Terry, the Revell version is definitely more accurate than the Hasegawa's: in that the latter, besides being quite "flat" in the slat area, also misses one prominent panel line on the top and has the strake too long for the F-4E. As for Finemolds, this kit is for an EJ; they did not have slatted wings, so the kit part is just not suitable for the job.

 

Ciao

 

Thanks Giorgio. I have one Revell Phantom (an F-4F) in the stash, and I just checked it. It would seem Revell have provided both slatted and unslatted outer wing panels which is great. So it would seem I have a good source for casting replacement outer wings on Hasegawa moulds! I wonder if Finemolds plan to do late(slated) wings at some point?

 

Terry

[Spookytooth]

Some steady work going on there Giorgio.

We hope that you and yours had a good Easter.

 

Simon.

[hendie]

Nice slattery... or will be when finished.

Keep up the good work G

[VT Red Sox Fan]

G, really appreciate you stepping through this--cross kitting castings seems like a smart way to go if you know where the issues are.  I also have the Revell F-4F, so your answers to Terry's questions are much appreciated--with all the Phantoms out there, it can be sometimes be daunting to just build one--best, Erwin 

[Cookenbacher]

Glad to see that these are still receiving true Giemme Treatment^TM - amazing detail as always Giorgio!

[giemme]

On 19/04/2022 at 12:07, Terry1954 said:

I wonder if Finemolds plan to do late(slated) wings at some point?

 

Terry

Hopefully so! Meanwhile, we have to make do with what we have...  

 

On 20/04/2022 at 16:25, Spookytooth said:

Some steady work going on there Giorgio.

We hope that you and yours had a good Easter.

 

Simon.

Thanks Simon  I hope the same for you guys!  

 

On 20/04/2022 at 16:37, hendie said:

Nice slattery... or will be when finished.

Keep up the good work G

See below, Alan   thanks

 

On 21/04/2022 at 03:47, VT Red Sox Fan said:

G, really appreciate you stepping through this--cross kitting castings seems like a smart way to go if you know where the issues are.  I also have the Revell F-4F, so your answers to Terry's questions are much appreciated--with all the Phantoms out there, it can be sometimes be daunting to just build one--best, Erwin 

Cheers Erwin, thanks  I jsut followed @Gene K lead here, he knows his stuff about Phantoms (kits and real AC )

 

On 23/04/2022 at 19:40, Cookenbacher said:

Glad to see that these are still receiving true Giemme Treatment^TM - amazing detail as always Giorgio!

Glad to hear from you , Cookie!  Thanks for the praise, much appreciated!

 

 

Alright, outer wings: I was eventually able to cast a two pairs of usable sets

 

One of the required modifications, if you recall, is to reposition the wing fold hinge, so I marked the correct position on the resin part

 

and used one of the defective cast part as donor:

 

And here we go (blue marker to check for seams)

 

I then carved in the slot for the wing strake

 

which was previously replicated using 0.3mm plasticard

 

in place

 

As I mentioned in one of my latest post, I decided not to separate the slat from the wing, because it would result in a too fragile of a structure. So I simply scribed along its trailing edge

 

Glued in place on the HASE kit, using CA

 

 

 

I then did just the same for starboard wing:

 

 

This one is getting dangerously close to paint

 

Now I just need to do the same job for the FM outer wings. Next time, though; meanwhile, all comments welcome.

 

Ciao

[hendie]

Excellent update G. I'm very impressed with the level of detailing going on here

[Thom216]

Phenominal work!

[Fritag]

Nice resin-work G.  I can’t remember your casting method- but whatever it is there bain’t be any nasty bubbles marring the fin(sh.  Respect (as always)