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Mercedes L 4500


Lummox

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On 08/02/2022 at 21:33, Lummox said:

+++

Probably being a bit thick, but how would awkward loads such as this be secured...?

a) By lashing to the truck bed uprights in some way (see rubbish example scribbled in red)? Probably the obvious and most likely answer I guess.

b) By lashing to some kind of tie downs affixed to the bed floor in some way (see rubbish example scribbled in black)? 

c) Nothing special done to secure, relying on gravity and friction to stop things shifting around? Unlikely, but if the driver took things steady it may be OK.

 

AVvXsEj4QFOTzwfuYCrY4a6SYAhqcTR3mclPzJQ5

 

+++

Paul.

 

 

They didn't have the internet yet back in those days, but maybe they did have some offcial rules (H.Dv. xyz/b) and/or experience with "Ladungssicherung" to prevent "torpedoeing"

 

http://www.arbeitssicherheit-ernst.de/Ladungssicherung;focus=CMTOI_de_dtag_hosting_hpcreator_widget_PictureGallery_10313148&path=image.action&frame=CMTOI_de_dtag_hosting_hpcreator_widget_PictureGallery_10313148?id=7895632&width=550&height=550&crop=true

 

Ladungssicherung;focus=CMTOI_de_dtag_hos

 

So I'd go at least with the "black belts" holding the cargo down and maybe even some improvised piece of wood to take up the space between the front of the cargo and the front end of the flat bed (in case it is experienced Marine / trucking personal doing the job).

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24 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

There's a word for the wooden blocks and wedges uses when tying down an awkward load like this.

 

 Chocks might very well be the word, maybe :hmmm:

 

 Matt 

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7 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

 

 Chocks might very well be the word, maybe :hmmm:

 

 Matt 

 

Nah, it's something that sounds like ullage or steerage or jetsam. Some antique of a word. Dammit where is my memory these days?

 

Nah, it's something that sounds like ullage or steerage or jetsam. Some antique of a word.

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2 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

Nah, it's something that sounds like ullage or steerage or jetsam. Some antique of a word. Dammit where is my memory these days?

 

Scotches perhaps?

 

As per this comment found here...

'when transporting loads that are likely to "Roll" on the back of a vehicle should be scutched both front and back with the scotches which are usually wooden wedges these should be secured to the trailer or vehicle body floor using nails or any other securing measures which are appropriate for use on the load in question'

 

Or this comment found here

'Do use wedges, scotches etc., so that your load cannot move.'

 

Talking of scotches, where did I put that bottle of Talisker?

:drink:

 

Paul.

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On 2/8/2022 at 9:20 PM, Cerberus said:

I would go for b) By lashing to some kind of tie downs affixed to the bed floor in some way (see rubbish example scribbled in black) - Once the carrier frame is fixed down to the bed of the truck, it shouldn't move around too much, maybe...

Cheers Matt, makes sense - that's one vote for lashed to tie-downs on the bed. :smile:

 

On 2/8/2022 at 9:44 PM, Jack Klugman said:

This is a stunning build and the torpedo is a work of art. wow. 

Thanks Jack, appreciate the comments. 👍

 

On 2/9/2022 at 11:15 AM, Bullbasket said:

This is going to a whole new level, especially if you include the floaty/sinky thing as a load. Brilliant work Paul.

Cheers John. I'm am planing on having the Maiale and its accessories as the load - it's a flight of fancy, but something a bit different. :wink:

 

On 2/9/2022 at 12:31 PM, vaoinas said:

This is a stunning build and the attention to detail is on the next level.
Nice job on the cabin interior here.

I really enjoy what you are doing with this kit.

Many thanks Kristjan, you are too kind. 👍

 

On 2/10/2022 at 8:47 AM, Pig of the Week said:

Nice bit of fabrication there 👍 .... you can come and give me a hand with the Morris Minor ( 1.1 scale) if you like :)

Cheers Mr P. Funny you should say that - when I was adding the framework it reminded me of Edd China doing up a woody in an old episode of Wheeler Dealers. :smile:

 

On 2/10/2022 at 2:14 PM, Jochen Barett said:

So I'd go at least with the "black belts" holding the cargo down and maybe even some improvised piece of wood to take up the space between the front of the cargo and the front end of the flat bed (in case it is experienced Marine / trucking personal doing the job).

Thanks Jochen. Another vote for lashing to tie-downs, and probably not a bad idea to have additional wooden bracing 'just in case'. :wink:

 

 

I'm still dabbling with the cab interior, work focusing on bits'n'bobs that are visible in this picture. Working from left to right we see:

1) Various hangers, hooks, loops screwed into the framework on the cab rear. I've circled these as they aren't too obvious.

2) Rectangular panel on the cab roof.

3) Driver's sun visor. I'm ignoring this as I think it may be a post-war addition (nothing to support this thinking, so if anyone knows differently please shout :smile:).

4) Internal framework that continues round the windscreen.

5) Wiper motors attached to windscreen framework.

4) Odd lever thing (circled) - more on this later.

AVvXsEjrqewTO5mY21Tj8FPr5pSCehTnW8lEFIeP

 

The framework around the windscreen was made in a similar way to that round the doors. As can be seen the kit representation of the wiper motors is, well, a bit rubbish: :smile:

AVvXsEg3TL9Qs2SKXoWf8_hLGKxdfEWxryv9EhNi

 

Some scraping was necessary to get rid of the kit 'motors' and allow the framework to sit flush round the windscreen, the framework stopping at the dashboard. Replacement motors were created, which look a bit big now they are on, but I'll live with 'em:

AVvXsEhOjrlJdmbjTb10_RXR98vHYNf2EnULDlB6

 

Now for the rectangular panel on the cab roof. Not sure what this is to be honest, but it looks to correspond to a similar shape on the top of the roof. The shape was copied onto thin stock:

AVvXsEiCBZcpVJsY4Cj2GV8AR2gjRU5EIc2gy8xB

 

I've cheated a bit when adding the panel to the cab roof in that I've placed it too far forward so it very slightly overhangs the join line. The hope is that this will mask to a certain extent the 'pretty much impossible to tidy up' join line when the cab halves are stuck together. Also visible here is my attempt at replicating the hangers and hooks in the cab rear framework, and also the odd lever thing:

AVvXsEgUOzz3x3Fuo444iprrW0mruCrO8cmkY8tQ

 

So just what is that lever for?

I reckon it's to do with the Anhängerdreieck.

'The what?', you may ask.

You'll probably know what the Anhängerdreieck is without knowing its name. It is the triangle thing on the cab roof that indicates whether the truck is towing a trailer (triangle up if towing, down otherwise):

AVvXsEip7j96FJ9bxiHfHpWI5NpiqtNYN1Qt01pl

 

There were different flavors of Anhängerdreieck, some illuminated, some not. In most cases the triangles were actuated by lever from the cab, which explains our odd lever, similar to that seen here:

AVvXsEj_2K6IvrVPDvzvMu0rRx6nphosC_onDMjJ

 

Our truck won't be towing, so the triangle should be down. But which way should the lever be pointing if the triangle is down? This example is similar to our Anhängerdreieck, and it looks like you crank the lever anticlockwise to the right to depress the triangle, so that's where our lever will be:

AVvXsEj39XUXLLzUYr0EA9TolQcXwAGfQ5oss6qh

 

Putting the cab together it seems like the cheat with the rectangular panel may actually work in hiding most of the join: :penguin:

AVvXsEiPTo99QWCPGaGq7BdcmVdWuG7Djv5Pyw7M

 

Finally a quick shot from the front. You never know, some of this work may actually be visible when the cab goes together: :smile:

AVvXsEjoFquNIS6E6WMKRbXc-y0a1Y9OXb0_Vhvh

 

 

And that brings things up to date, Cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

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A strange thing happened. I used to watch your project with great interest, but now I understand that I follow it with sporting interest - what will he do so incredibly next time? And every time you make me be surprised.

 

Vytautas

P.S. For a long time, I wanted to ask, but I was shy: are you really a human? :rofl:

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Lovely detail, and the fun you’re having with it really comes across  - I love it when I’m scratchbuilding something and I just keep going for the love of it, but the quality of your work is outstanding.

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  • 2 months later...

My, my, doesn't time fly. You know you've been lax when you have to scroll to page 5 to find your build thread to update. :smile:

Progress has been achingly slow due to a combination of work, life and a mojo dip. But there has been progress, albeit small...

 

I'm striving to get things to a point where final little jobs are completed so that the cab interior can be painted and the cab closed up. Space will be very tight in the cab once closed up, so I want to make sure I've considered everything as it will be tricky to retro-fit things that have been missed. Making a decision on the tilting windscreen mechanism is one area that needs to be finalised before we can proceed. A tilting windscreen didn't seem to be standard fit on the L 4500, but it definitely seemed to be 'a thing':

cap1.jpg

 

Information on how the tilt mechanism worked is hard to find, but when this was discussed earlier in the thread @Ned suggested slotted bars similar to those in VW camper vans, and @NIK122 proposed a scissor hinge mechanism similar to that on a Sd.Kfz.9 (coincidentally Nik is currently dealing with this in his build, which is a cracking thread and well worth a look):

cap2.jpg

 

Which mechanism was used in the L 4500? I've no idea, but after some careful consideration I decided to go with the scissor hinge option (purely because I thought it would be easier to manufacture :wink:). So, starting with some etch tool clasps we can trim and shape the 'lever' components to make the scissor links:

cap3.jpg

 

The wingnuts proved to be more of a problem. The only thing suitable I could find in my etch stash were some 'T' shaped things (part 14 in the image, one of which has had its shaft suitably thinned). As an alternative I also found some styrene wingnuts (spares from some Dragon kit I believe):

cap4.jpg

 

Putting the pieces together we end up with these. First impressions are that the styrene wingnut version looks way over-scale, but the etch alternative doesn't look too convincing either. Hmmm, I'll have to mull things over:

cap5.jpg

 

Meanwhile, I thought that it would be prudent to mock-up the steering elements to ensure there will be no nasty surprises when the cab is put together. The kit steering column was replaced with brass tube, the steering wheel also acquiring some tube to allow it to be slotted onto the column from within the cab:

cap6.jpg

 

Here we have the steering elements without the cab in place:

cap7.jpg

 

And here with the cab. Looks good, everything appearing to play nice with each other:

cap8.jpg

 

Or does it? Comparing with photos the steering wheel looks to be a bit low. Not sure if the steering column is too short, or is at the wrong angle, or both. Hmmm, something else to mull over:

cap10.jpg

 

cap11.jpg

 

Finally, I was wondering what could be hanging from the various hooks on the cab back wall to give it a homely feel. Well there's no sun visors in there, and when the sun is low a cap may come in useful:

cap12.jpg

 

It seems to look at home hanging on its hook:

cap13.jpg

 

That's it for now, cheers, and thanks for looking,

 

Paul.

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40 minutes ago, Lummox said:

Or does it? Comparing with photos the steering wheel looks to be a bit low. Not sure if the steering column is too short, or is at the wrong angle, or both. Hmmm, something else to mull over:

 To my eye, it looks to be too short, and set at the wrong angle, plus the steering wheel itself is too chunky, not as delicate as the real thing, but I fear that it might be more complicated than that, because in that side shot that you posted (with no door fitted) it looks to be about right, so it might just be some 'angle of dangle' nonsense going on with the camera... :hmmm:

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Haven't you finished this yet? Come on pull your finger out! 🤣

Yes that steering wheel does look higher in real life however the column angle looks the same. You are talking millimetres to make it look right. The model column looks to be sitting low in the bulkhead hole. Would raising it up to be central or at the top of the slot solve it? 

 

Andrew 

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34 minutes ago, APA said:

Would raising it up to be central or at the top of the slot solve it? 

Might the driver then bang his fingers on the windscreen?

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13 minutes ago, echen said:

Might the driver then bang his fingers on the windscreen?

And that's why they lost the war 😁

 

Andrew 

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Well this build just keeps on giving! Maybe a packet of fags on the dash and a burning cigarette in the ashtray!? Great stuff

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The steering position looks awful in those original pictures, especially the second one, Imagine driving all day with your hands up at face level. 

Even if it's wrong, yours looks more ergonomically correct, so the plastic driver will thank you. Unless the wheel is too close to the screen, in which case he'll be cursing you every time he turns a tight corner :)

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On 5/6/2022 at 3:48 PM, Cerberus said:

To my eye, it looks to be too short, and set at the wrong angle, plus the steering wheel itself is too chunky, not as delicate as the real thing, but I fear that it might be more complicated than that, because in that side shot that you posted (with no door fitted) it looks to be about right, so it might just be some 'angle of dangle' nonsense going on with the camera... :hmmm:

I think 'angle of dangle' shenanigans definitely comes into it Matt, but, as we shall see, that's only part of the problem.

 

On 5/6/2022 at 5:21 PM, Kelscale said:

I would say the wheel boss appears larger and the spokes look longer. 

There appear to have been variations in the steering wheel which makes comparisons awkward, but our wheel certainly has issues.

 

On 5/6/2022 at 6:30 PM, APA said:

Haven't you finished this yet? Come on pull your finger out! 🤣

Yes that steering wheel does look higher in real life however the column angle looks the same. You are talking millimetres to make it look right. The model column looks to be sitting low in the bulkhead hole. Would raising it up to be central or at the top of the slot solve it? 

It is dragging on a bit isn't it Andrew? I certainly like getting my money's worth out of any kit I buy. :wink:

The column does look to sit low in the firewall opening, but I don't think that is the issue as will become evident.

 

On 5/6/2022 at 7:05 PM, echen said:

Might the driver then bang his fingers on the windscreen?

Perhaps that's the idea behind the tilting windscreen? :smile:

 

On 5/6/2022 at 8:26 PM, NIK122 said:

Well this build just keeps on giving! Maybe a packet of fags on the dash and a burning cigarette in the ashtray!? Great stuff

Cheers Nik. The plan is for the truck to (eventually) be in some kind of refueling scene, so a lit cigarette will be strictly verboten. I do need something to go in the glove compartment though, so a packet or two of cigarettes could well fit the bill. Now what on earth did the average German smoke?

 

On 5/7/2022 at 8:38 AM, Pig of the Week said:

Great to see some more of this build 👍

ps, i bet you end up scratching a pair of wingnuts ! ;)

Thanks Mr P. Fortunately scratching wingnuts won't be needed as will be seen (which is a bloody good job really!)

 

On 5/7/2022 at 3:35 PM, Ned said:

The steering position looks awful in those original pictures, especially the second one, Imagine driving all day with your hands up at face level. 

Even if it's wrong, yours looks more ergonomically correct, so the plastic driver will thank you. Unless the wheel is too close to the screen, in which case he'll be cursing you every time he turns a tight corner :)

I agree Ned, the steering wheel does look to be in a really awkward position (though I've never driven anything bigger than a Transit so I'm not exactly an expert :smile: ).

 

On 5/9/2022 at 8:40 AM, Pig of the Week said:

I was thinking just like Ned, the photo of the cab shows a very high position for the wheel, but i guess it's hard to argue against pics of the real thing !

Not just pictures Mr P, here's a chap driving one of these bad boys bouncing across a field. The high wheel position is evident:

 

 

It's a bit like like buses this thread - no posts for ages and then two within a week! I'll need a lie down after all this...

 

Firstly, the result of the investigation into the low steering wheel position. I wonder if the eagle eyed amongst you can see what the problem may be in the picture on the left? Yes, that's right, the replacement steering column is quite a bit shorter than the kit equivalent. Ooops, how can this be? I'm sure I measured twice before I cut once! The middle picture may explain what has happened. The column is the correct length but it is too loose in the (rack and pinion?) housing so has slipped through to rest on the chassis. No matter, it was an easy fix, so the steering column is now the correct length:

scolumn1.jpg

 

So has this fixed the low steering position problem? Well, kind of, there's definitely been an improvement but replicating the comparisons seen in the previous post the wheel still looks a tad low:

scolumn2.jpg

 

The view from the side view looks OK though, so as Matt suggested, maybe some camera trickery is making things look off when attempting comparisons with example pictures - dunno really:

scolumn3.jpg

 

I do have some (pretty accurate) plans to compare against, where I've attempted to match up a photo as close as I can. My amateur attempt at an overlay seems to suggest that things are pretty close to the plans (in terms of steering column length, angle, and orientation to other elements within the cab). I think I'm going to take this as a win. :smile:

scolumn4.jpg

 

Now for the steering wheel. It certainly looks quite chunky when compared to an example of the real thing. I'm undecided whether I should attempt to do anything about this. Replacing the spokes with suitably thin wire would probably improve things no end, but there again Andrew is complaining the build is going on too long so I better not delay things further or he'll tell me off again :wink:

scolumn5.jpg

 

Finally, those wingnuts on the scissor hinges for the tilting windscreen. I had a further hunt around in the stash and, hello, what are these little babies from a Hotchkiss H39 etch set. I normally try to avoid robbing bit from items in the stash (leads to a 'where on earth did these bits go?' moment when you come to build later) but these are for use with French style tool clasps, whereas I'll be building a Beutepnzer H39 with German clasps. Fair game then, lovely!

scolumn6.jpg

 

And here are the 'liberated' wingnuts in place. Much better, I think they will do nicely. As an aside the hinges also pivot so I can chose an optimum tilt position when the time comes:

scolumn7.jpg

 

 

That's thing up to date. Cheers, thanks for looking, and thanks for all the great feedback.

 

Paul.

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