echen Posted March 5 Posted March 5 The little details add up, IMHO, to demonstrate the builders attention to detail. Attention to detail here has got very high indeed. 2 1
Hamden Posted March 6 Posted March 6 Like the way you've done the exhaust, I don't think the exhaust system would show a lot of rust, just discolouration in areas. A build up of mud on the silencer and tail pipe maybe? Looking forward to the next update keep up the great work Roger 1 2
Keeff Posted March 7 Posted March 7 Superb work Paul! As for the colourings, I found when I built my Jeep kit that the main colour tends to be silver-grey with rust spots here and there. Around the manifold will be discoloured to a brownish tone from the heat which then returns to the normal colours. I even crawled under my van for a look! I like what you've done .... especially the brass addition for the finer detail. Onto the next update!! Keith ☺️ 2 1
Jochen Barett Posted March 17 Posted March 17 On 01/06/2021 at 21:28, Lummox said: You are right Mr Pig. It does seem that the fastening bolts are not necessarily in the plank centres, in fact it looks to be the exception rather than the rule. The kit does indeed have a backing strip on the other side, the bolts on which won't line up with the etch hinge plate. No getting away from the fact that the lowest bolt is in fresh air ... Cheers Andrew. I don't mind delving into the rabbit holes to be honest - the research is half of the fun! It's an interesting observation Jochen that the shift of the side panels from the top of the bed to the side would result in more cargo space (assuming the bed retained the same width). I've been trying to establish whether one variant was 'early' and other 'late', but there seems to be no obvious link. One thing I do know for sure though - there is no chance that I will build another L 4500 . Bench time has been limited recently as the lovely lovely weather has meant there has been no excuse for not painting that fence (and numerous other chores that have been languishing on that 'to do' list). I did, however, find time to add all the shiny stuff to the bed side panel. The process went as follows: 1) Establish a straight edge to keep things in line, and start by adding the upright 'fixing housing' things. 2) Then add the canopy frame 'fixing housing' things using a hinge plate as a spacer. 3) Next add the hinge plates striving to keep everything level. 4) Finally add the end plates... So, was all the work worth it? Well it certainly blings things up a tad, and adds some nice finesse to the fixings (especially when viewed from above)... Yay, that's one side done! Well apart from the latches and hinge pivots that I'll add when everything is on the bed. Only the other side, the front and the tail-gate to go. 🤪 This will take quite some time. I'm going to dub it 'The Grind' and keep plugging away at it in the background in-between doing other jobs. Thanks for looking, and let me say that I really appreciate all the interesting comments. Paul. Excuse me for reopening this - but Mike's review of another Mercedes cargo truck sent me looking for pics showing the bolt postions, it is interesting: https://en.wheelsage.org/mercedes-benz/l-serie_1/mercedes-benz_l_701/pritschenwagen/gallery/tfx7p4 https://www.auto.de/magazin/l-701-der-opel-blitz-von-daimler-benz/ https://www.off-road.pl/mercedes-3000-l701/ 4
RossFMJ Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Heck, that is absolutely ghasting my flabber, or is it flabbering my ghast? Truly brilliant work, thanks for sharing. 1
Lummox Posted March 21 Author Posted March 21 Time has flown (again) and I'm overdue an update (again). I've actually been very busy filling, sanding and painting, but sadly not related to this build. SWMBO unfortunately decided that the hallway just had to be redecorated, and when The Boss gets into DIY mode everything else takes a back seat. Not all bad news though, as whilst ensconced in the garage sawing dado rails and paneling stuff I cheekily sneaked knocked up something that is kind of related to the build, but more on that later... On 3/5/2025 at 2:08 PM, Bullbasket said: This may sound daft, but for me, sometimes it's little items that make it for me. In this case, it's the final bracket o the end of the exhaust, where it bolts on to the chassis frame. It looks great, (as does the rest of the exhaust). Thanks, and it's not daft at all John, it often being the little enhancements that are the most satisfying. You can spend ages on a complex thing and once done you think 'Meh, it's OK I guess', but something silly that took a couple of moments to knock up makes a real difference. Go figure On 3/5/2025 at 4:13 PM, echen said: The little details add up, IMHO, to demonstrate the builders attention to detail. Attention to detail here has got very high indeed. Cheers echen, thanks for the encouragement.👍 On 3/6/2025 at 1:46 PM, Hamden said: Like the way you've done the exhaust, I don't think the exhaust system would show a lot of rust, just discolouration in areas. A build up of mud on the silencer and tail pipe maybe? Looking forward to the next update keep up the great work Thanks Roger. I agree that sometimes 'less is more' when it come to exhaust rusting, and it's a good suggestion on the mud buildup. Looking at the pictures of overturned trucks things look surprisingly clean, but some splatters of mud here and there will certainly be in order (when the chassis is finally done). On 3/6/2025 at 4:34 PM, szeregowy said: This is on another level, excellent job on the exhaust. Cheers szeregowy, much appreciated. 👍 On 3/7/2025 at 11:45 AM, Keeff said: Superb work Paul! As for the colourings, I found when I built my Jeep kit that the main colour tends to be silver-grey with rust spots here and there. Around the manifold will be discoloured to a brownish tone from the heat which then returns to the normal colours. I even crawled under my van for a look! I like what you've done .... especially the brass addition for the finer detail. Thanks Keith. Funny you should mention crawling under your van. A chap up the road drives an old Land Rover so I strolled up to have a quick peek at his exhaust system. I thought it may look a bit odd if I scrambled under it for a good look, but I managed to get a couple of pictures while 'tying my shoelaces'. On 3/17/2025 at 8:40 PM, Jochen Barett said: Excuse me for reopening this Blimey Jochen, you have a very good memory my friend, I'd forgotten all about those posts! With the chassis nearing completion, I pulled the bed out of storage just the other day to remind myself where I'd got to. There's some great reference material there - thank you.👍 On 3/19/2025 at 8:23 AM, RossFMJ said: Heck, that is absolutely ghasting my flabber, or is it flabbering my ghast? Truly brilliant work, thanks for sharing. Thanks Ross. Not sure if it's ghasting your flabber, or flabbering you ghast, but you can probably get some cream for it. I feel a bit of a fraud with the following update to be honest, 'cos although I've been doing some scratch building, it's only loosely related to the build. Let me explain... As you know we've been working on the chassis for some time now, this not being the easiest thing to work on as there's nothing to really hold on to, and there a multitude of 'sticky out' bits to get in the way. A home made 'handle' has served us very well up to now, this being bolted through a handy hole in a cross-member halfway along the chassis. All good things must come to an end though. We can no longer use the 'handle' as the next job is the drivetrain, and the transfer box mounts on that central cross member: We need an alternative way of holding the chassis while it is worked on. Taking inspiration from the maritime community I thought a posable platform might be useful. A root around in the garage turned up some raw materials and we ended up with a base. No, don't laugh, it's a quality bit of engineering For the platform, a lid from an old, cheap airbrush box was repurposed. I though a transparent platform would be a good idea, but the plastic was horrible to work with, having a tendency to 'melt' when sawed/drilled (and this was when using hand not power tools). A trip to a hardware store for some bolts and wingnuts and we end up with this: So far, so good, but how do we mount the chassis to the platform? The only real option was to mount through the wheels, so they were drilled to accept some M1.6 nuts (a job that should have been done long before the wheels added to the axles). The transparent platform made it easy to see where holes should be drilled to accept the bolts: Eventually, we end up with this: The platform can be moved through around 170o to allow some jaunty angles to be achieved: Critically, the platform can be moved enough to access the 'innards' of the chassis, which is where we want to be next: And that's as far as we've got I'm afraid. Apologies for this rather tenuous update. Hopefully normal service will be resumed shortly, although there have been mutterings along the lines of 'now the hallway has been decorated the utility room looks a bit tired'. Sigh Cheers, and thanks for looking, Paul. 12 6 1 2
Keeff Posted March 21 Posted March 21 A nice update Paul. In body shop terms, you've built yourself a rotisserie .... superb work! Looking forward to the next update.... once you've refurbished the utility room! Keith ☺️ 1 1 2
Kelscale Posted June 12 Posted June 12 (edited) Excellent home made jig. One that soft skin builders are in permanent need off. No excuses now for more progress updates 😉 Edited June 15 by Kelscale 1 1
Lummox Posted June 17 Author Posted June 17 On 6/12/2025 at 3:12 PM, Kelscale said: Excellent home made jig. One that soft skin builders are in permanent need off. No excuses now for more progress updates 😉 Ha, cheers Los. 👍 The build has been bumbling along so there has been some progress. I've been taking a bit of a break from the forum, but I'll aim to sort out some content for an update - thanks for the nudge. 1
Peter2 Posted June 17 Posted June 17 I venture to suggest that your clever homemade jig is unique: on this planet anyway. No other modeller could have had the same idea, surely? 1
Lummox Posted June 27 Author Posted June 27 Well it's been quite some time since the last update. I won't bore you with lame excuses, so let's just get on with it... On 6/18/2025 at 12:22 AM, Peter2 said: I venture to suggest that your clever homemade jig is unique: on this planet anyway. No other modeller could have had the same idea, surely? Cheers Peter. Sorry I missed your comment, but I must admit to shamelessly copying similar jigs seen elsewhere (especially within the maritime modeling community). Right, where were we up to all those months ago? Ah yes, the drivetrain... One of the reasons for the update hiatus was the lack of information on the drivetrain configuration for our truck. The more I dug, the less I seemed to find. One morsel was the following diagram. I got the crayons out to highlight the bits we are interested in, namely the propeller shaft from the transmission into the transfer case, and the shafts out from the transfer case to the front and rear axles. As an aside, this diagram matches the kit very closely, suggesting that either Zvezda based the kit on the diagram, or the diagram was based on the kit: Another unearthed morsel was this diagram (illustrating various component lubrication points). Again I've taken the liberty of colouring in of the pertinent bits. The diagram is similar to the previous one, but noticeably differs in that the main 'thrust line' from the transmission to the rear axle is straight through rather than slightly cranked (which makes more sense to me, but what do I know?): Although the lubrication diagram is of poor quality it does seem to answer the question of 'what happens when the 4WD selector lever is pulled in the cab?' If I'm not mistaken the diagram appears to show some kind of mechanical linkage from the the 4WD lever, the linkage running parallel to the prop shaft and into the transfer case. I'm guessing that when the lever is pulled, the linkage selects 4WD with a satisfying 'clunk': So, what else could we find? Well, not a great deal. There's a diagram of a prop shaft with universal joint (though I'm not sure where the intermediary bearing fits in? 2WD perhaps?), and a rear axle picture showing the area where the prop shaft would connect: And that's all that I could find, which is not a great deal to get your teeth into really. With a death of hard and fast information we'll have to trust what we have in the kit. So what has Zvezda given us? Let's start with the transfer case. Detail is OK to be honest, with what looks to be an oil drain plug represented on the bottom. Looking at the top we see an odd 'nubbin' thing. Not sure what this may be (where the oil goes in perhaps?), but I suspect a hole in the mounting cross member lines up with it for a reason: What about the prop shafts? Not too good unfortunately, as the fit is very sloppy due to the shafts being a few mm too short. Also, the universal joints look a bit weedy, probably being compromised my making them 'workable': OK, let's see what we can do. I mulled over what to do about the weedy universal joints, but lacking in any inspiration decided to live with them but tart things up a bit: To address the short prop shaft issue it was out with the brass tube of different diameters (where would we be without Albion Alloys ). The prop shaft could then be telescoped in for fitting, and then telescoped out to get a tight fit between transfer case and axle: Eventually we had three shiny new prop shafts, and a representation of the 4WD linkage. The transfer case also got some bling, including a totally imaginary socket (that looks like it may do something) for the 4WD linkage to slip into: Right, enough of the blather, this is what we end up with: What do you mean you can't see anything? OK, here's some close-ups in all the gory detail, first from above... ...and from below... ...and the imaginary 4WD linkage... 'How much of all this will actually be visible when the cab and bed are on?' you may ask. The answer would be 'Not a lot', but that's not the point is it. Finally, just a quick word about the jig, it's been worth it's weight in gold. Definitely worth the effort, but if I were to do it again, I'd go the extra mile and make it capable of a full 360o traverse rather than just 180o. Cheers, thanks for your patience and thanks for looking, Paul. 9 4 3
NIK122 Posted June 27 Posted June 27 Ah!, the 'Watch maker general' has returned!!! Sublime model making skulduggery guaranteed.😎 1 2
Mpfiend Posted June 28 Posted June 28 Stunning work. Every update to this is an education. Regards, Keith. 1 2
Jochen Barett Posted June 29 Posted June 29 On 27/06/2025 at 21:22, Lummox said: Looking at the top we see an odd 'nubbin' thing. Not sure what this may be (where the oil goes in perhaps?), but I suspect a hole in the mounting cross member lines up with it for a reason: Trying to find a pic of the real thing (to show the filler cap of a gearbox is usually located at the side and not the top) I failed - but I came across this nice offer of the gear box (go, grab the pics!): https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/mercedes-benz-daimler-vorkrieg-getriebe-lo2000-l4500-lkw-oldtimer/1353127291-276-5049 1
Hamden Posted June 30 Posted June 30 More superb detail work Paul. Don't know for sure but I think the lump on top of the transfer box is likely a breather Roger 1
Keeff Posted June 30 Posted June 30 Beautiful work and yet more detail added Paul .... I doff my cap to your skill! As an aside, I pondered the lack of drain plug on the transfer case, and then realised that any problems with it would mean removal from the vehicle, so the plug is both fill and drain. Keith ☺️ 1
Lummox Posted July 18 Author Posted July 18 Time has flown and once more we're overdue an update. I blame the weather. It's just been too lovely to be stuck inside when you could be sitting in the shade with a cold beer. There has been some progress though, but first the usual late replies to your kind comments... On 6/27/2025 at 8:32 PM, NIK122 said: Ah!, the 'Watch maker general' has returned!!! Sublime model making skulduggery guaranteed.😎 Ha, ha Nik. I initially misread your comment as 'Witchfinder General', which I quite fancy for a new avatar to be honest. On 6/28/2025 at 8:12 AM, Mpfiend said: Stunning work. Every update to this is an education. Cheers Keith, You've got me wondering whether I should set an exam at the end now. On 6/28/2025 at 12:41 PM, FrancisGL said: Terrific job for now!....... Thanks Francis, much appreciated. 👍 On 6/29/2025 at 8:50 PM, Jochen Barett said: Trying to find a pic of the real thing (to show the filler cap of a gearbox is usually located at the side and not the top) I failed - but I came across this nice offer of the gear box (go, grab the pics!): Cheers Jochen. The pics have come in useful (as you will see later). 👍 On 6/30/2025 at 7:20 AM, Hamden said: More superb detail work Paul. Don't know for sure but I think the lump on top of the transfer box is likely a breather Thanks Roger. A breather makes sense. Half the fun is trying to understand what the bits of plastic you're messing with are representing (or is it just me?) On 6/30/2025 at 7:46 AM, Keeff said: Beautiful work and yet more detail added Paul .... I doff my cap to your skill! As an aside, I pondered the lack of drain plug on the transfer case, and then realised that any problems with it would mean removal from the vehicle, so the plug is both fill and drain. Cheers Keith. Seem to remember an old episode of Wheeler Dealers where Ed was topping up the oil on a transfer case and him talking about the hole being both 'fill and drain'. Amazing what you remember when someone gives you a nudge in the right direction. Thanks. 👍 Right, on with the update... So what's been going on? Well today we'll be blathering at length about handbrake linkages. Fascinating stuff I know - sorry about that. 🤪 Let's look at a schematic of the braking system plucked from a manual. The original text is to the top, with what Google Translate spits out below. We're interested in the highlighted bit (described by 9, 11 and 13): Let's look in a bit more detail. We see that the handbrake is connected to the rear brakes with a long linkage incorporating a turnbuckle: Referring to the lubrication diagram that's been posted before, we see that the handbrake appears to be mounted on the side of the gearbox, the linkage traversing the length of the chassis to the rear brakes: A page from a Maultier manual confirms that the handbrake is mounted on the gearbox (again a Google Translate output is included). As we're dealing with a Maultier here the linkage is truncated (going to the track braking system rather than the rear wheels) but the assumption is that the handbrake mounting will similar to that on the truck: Further confirmation of the handbrake mounting is provided by the images found by @Jochen Barett: And finally we have this wreak picture (I think of a post-war bus based on a L4500 chassis). We see the gearbox mounted handbrake, and can just about make out the connecting clevis and turnbuckle on the linkage. As an aside it's interesting to see the gearbox variations in the images/diagrams (everything seems to be similar but kinda different): Right, enough of the preamble, what does Zvezda give us? OK, we have the linkage with turnbuckle and clevises, but hang on, what's this, the handbrake lever is attached to the bottom of the cab and not the gearbox! Oh my, that won't do! That just won't do at all! I started to rework the kit part, but inevitability the commendably thin linkage snapped, so it was out with the brass. Truth be told, the turnbuckle was surprisingly tricky to replicate. In fact it was a begger to do. We kinda got an acceptable turnbuckle in the end (this was Mk III), even though it ended up being a bit too big. Keep wondering whether we should have a go at a Mk IV: 🤔 We then needed something to represent the gearbox handbrake mounting. Some bits of etch fret, some rod, some solder, and some time, results in this. The clevis connector slides into the turnbuckle on the linkage which helps with the installation on the chassis no end: So, what do we end up with? First from above... ...and then from below: A gruesome close up of the gearbox mounting and turnbuckle (which still looks too big) 😞 The handbrake mounting again, and the other end where the linkage connects to the rear brakes: This is all very well, but how much will you actually see when the cab and bed are on? Oh, is that it? I don't feel to bad about the turnbuckle being too big now! And that brings things up to date. Keep tuned for more insanity with fabricating stuff that will never be seen! Cheers, and thanks for looking, Paul. 8 5
Keeff Posted July 18 Posted July 18 This is a super informative update Paul which I enjoyed reading .... along with the detailing work which you to effortlessly produce from a few bits! There can't be many more bits you need to add surely? Keith ☺️ 2 1
StuartH Posted July 18 Posted July 18 I'm not quite sure why you bought the kit in the first place.....You seem to have scratchbuilt the whole thing yourself! 😁 Utterly incredible work and on a whole other level 3 1
Jochen Barett Posted July 18 Posted July 18 I think it might be a bit tough to find thread tap and die to cut the left hand thread on that turnbuckle and rod to match the scale, but I don't see any thread at all! So I'm confident we are about to witness Mk IV (threads) and Mk V (left hand thread) some day. What's the thickness of the rods? 😇 Found on the net: " A crew of Swiss engineerers was tasked by their government to create a wire as thin as possible. The project took months, years to finish, but at last, they succeeded. They produced a piece of extremely thin wire. It was so thin that they could not even measure how thin it actually was. Not only that, but it was also durable. They could not cut or shorten it, no matter how hard they tried. The Swiss Government was very proud of what their engineers created, but before they would go on and show off their newest development, they wanted to know how thin it actually was. They would look like fools if they could not even tell how thin their wire was, right? After some discussion, they decided that they had to ask a fellow European country for help. Should they ask the Germans? They are well known for their great engineering, they sure could help out. But they also liked to brag about that, so if they knew that the Swiss could not even measure it they would surely make fun of them. No, not the Germans. They decided to ask their French neighbours for help. So they prepared a package, and added a note. "Dear French Engineers. We have created a thin, durable wire. We can't cut it, and we can't measure how thin it is. Can you help?". A week passed, two weeks, a month until they heard back. The French sent back the wire with a note of their own. "We are very sorry. We tried everything, but we could neither cut it nor measure it." Damn, but it was worth a try. After more discussions, they decided to ask the USA next. After all they sent people to the moon and made many great inventions. They sure will find a way to help them out. They packed it, added the note, and send it over. A week passed, a month, two months until they heard back. Again, the wire was sent back to them with a note. "We have no idea what to do. We tried everything, but we can't cut it. And our instruments are not precise enough to measure how thin it even is. We have to pass." There was no other way. Swiss had to ask the Germans. But they hated it that, in the end, they had to admit it to them, of all people, that they could not measure the wire. So, angrily, they threw the wire in the box, didn't even bother to add a note, taped the package and send it to Germany. Two days later the wire gets returned. In the box is a note by the Germans. "We didn't know what you want us to do with it, so we drilled a hole through it and did some pipe threading"." In the version I heard / read first, they sent the wire directly to Carl Zeiss to show off a bit and the master craftsman gave it to an apprentice in his second year and left for a four week vacation, the Lehrling forgot what he was supposed to do with the wire soon but wanted to complete the assignment before the return of the Meister, so he mailed the Swiss asking "I'm sorry, but I was left with incomplete instructions. Am I supposed to cut an outer thread or to drill a hole and cut an inner thread?" But let's face it: Swiss watchmaking is top level. They could have easily done it by themselves, they just mailed the wire with the intention to show off. Great work as always! 4
szeregowy Posted July 18 Posted July 18 Wow, just wow. Scratch built Mk III linkage looks very presentable. 1 2
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